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Thread: ☣ Coronavirus ☣

  1. #601
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    Completely false?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    https://www.repubblica.it/salute/med...rio-251508086/

    /.../

    3 days of lag in a 40 yo! During these 3 days (5/6 for elders?) the reactive inflammation-induced interstitial pneumonia can kill virtually every old person (it takes some HOURS to go critical)
    First of, it takes days to even get the symptoms - but after that it can, indeed, go bad very quickly. Too quickly for some - true - but not due to unprecedented sluggishness of immune response.

    Adaptive immune response normally takes 4-7 days to fully set it. "After three days, we identified the emergence of a strong population of immune cells" - sounds business as usual. So, we got a nice and fast response (directly contradicting you). Which is promising for vaccine development (*) - which does not need the initial slow replication phases to begin with and can use additional means to alarm the immune system - likely allowing to bring the vaccine induced adaptive immune response down to the usual 12-24 hour mark.

    *) btw. human testing for covid-19 vaccine has already started (ie. all the previous steps have checked out - need to dot the i's and cross the t's to be sure now).

  2. #602
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    And it seems SARS2 really loves ACE2 molecules in the bloodstream, so think about all those old people taking ACE-inhibitors (and how they work) to control the blood pressure.
    ACE2 molecules are not in the bloodstream, they are in the attacked cell membrane serving as entry point for the virus ... but anyway.

    I checked the blood pressure and its medicine issue a some days ago - and got a headache. It is very confusing interactions there (in relation to covid-19). It can both help the issue and harm it (like i said - really complicated chain of influences) ... lots of research. Current consensus seems to be: fuck if we know - more research needed. However, bad news for high blood pressure people anyway as the cells the virus attacks are what kills us when they clog up and fall apart - high blood pressure sure "helps" to speed that up .

    I have high blood pressure - but i am off meds.

  3. #603
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Bloodstream -> BLOOD VESSELS, of course they're not in the blood moving around.

  4. #604
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by zombe View Post
    So, we got a nice and fast response (directly contradicting you)
    I'm not talking about 40 yo people, of course they statistically don't die (they can control the virus replication / they don't have the killer inflammation). I'm talking about the other people, the elders with immune response of a week.

  5. #605
    BANNED
    Registered: Nov 2016
    Location: Trollinus Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by bob_doe_nz View Post
    On the other hand, to keep myself occupied during the crisis. I've been making another costume. What is everyone else doing to bide the time?
    I am making welcome pills for the looters in 12 ga



  6. #606
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Jafaville New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Dia View Post
    P.S. Checked out your link and whatever you're creating looks awesome, Bob. I just don't know what it is.
    Have you not watched the original Ghostbusters?

  7. #607
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by zombe View Post
    need to dot the i's and cross the t's to be sure now
    I never watch Will Smith movies. When there's one on on the telly, I immediately switch to another channel.
    However, last week, by mistake, I watched the first few minutes of "I am Legend".
    I had never seen that movie before.
    The intro was a bit awkward. But to the point.
    (You can start watching at 58 seconds, if you are a little impatient).

  8. #608
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    You've never seen Men in Black? Bummer.

  9. #609
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    You've never seen Men in Black? Bummer.
    So he doesn't know the one and only essential protip in life: search for the truth in the gossip magazine.
    Man, a wasted life.


  10. #610
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Sure, I've seen (all?) MiB movies. And Independence day too. I was exaggerating a little (which I normally never ever ever do). Those movies have been shown on Dutch TV so often, I've seen every scene a few times. Maybe not all scenes of a movie at the same time, in sequence. But over the years, I've seen the full films, I guess. The MiB movies are fun, I agree. Although I rather watch (a young) Lara Flynn Boyle than Will Smith. His acting is so over the top, that I am reminded every second of the movie that I'm watching a Will Smith movie. Not good.

    And some movies are just crap (I hated the "I, Robot" one. They bought the rights to the book, so they could use the title of the book as a film title. And then they made a completely different movie, that had nothing to do with the book. Bah).

  11. #611
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
    I am making welcome pills for the looters in 12 ga
    JK, you nerd! If you want to fight looters, the best way to do it is to set booby traps in your front yard!

  12. #612
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Yep, just leave a primed grenade under that old engine block...

  13. #613
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    From what I've heard, there is only so much vitamin C a human body can absorb -- up to 200mg per day is absorbed completely, depending on the person. If you take more than that, the body will actually start doing worse at absorbing it and about 2 grams is supposed to be the safe limit that doesn't cause any side effects like kidney stones.
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    Exactly.
    DO NOT OVERDO.
    And then there are reports like this:
    https://orthomolecular.activehosted....91130d6b6.148&
    He gave a bolus of 50,000 mg IVC (intravenous vitamin C) over a period of 4 hours.
    That's 50 *grams* of vitamin C in 4 hours.

  14. #614
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    It's a non-sense :|
    And a danger.

  15. #615
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    Today in Lombardy:


    +320 death
    +45+320=+365 new patients in ICU since yesterday (if all dead persons come from ICUs) -> 924 ICUs only for Covid-19 (now the outbreak is 1 month old)

    I repeat: IN ONE DAY in the region with the best health care system in Europe.

    Complete data: https://lab.gedidigital.it/gedi-visu...agi-in-italia/ (feel free to translate)

  16. #616
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicker View Post
    Yep, just leave a primed grenade under that old engine block...
    No, that's a terrible idea. It's better to put it under a ham sandwich.

    That's a booby trap I invented. I call it The Hot Ham.

  17. #617
    BANNED
    Registered: Nov 2016
    Location: Trollinus Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    JK, you nerd! If you want to fight looters, the best way to do it is to set booby traps in your front yard!
    done

  18. #618
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    That's the spirit.

  19. #619
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    Completely false?
    Yes.

    What you linked to doesn't refute that. In fact it contradicts you.

    I've no beef with you, and you've done a great job on the reporting, but it's (almost) my duty to refute/correct scientific falsehoods and misconceptions.
    Last edited by SubJeff; 19th Mar 2020 at 14:55.

  20. #620
    BANNED
    Registered: Nov 2016
    Location: Trollinus Maximus
    Breaking News: Millions of Americans finally pull their head out of their ass and realize the 2nd amendment isn't about hunting.

    https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-c...215237009.html
    Coronavirus: California prepared to enact martial law if its a 'necessity', governor says

  21. #621
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    Yes.

    What you linked to doesn't refute that. In fact it contradicts you.

    I've no beef with you, and you've done a great job on the reporting, but it's (almost) my duty to refute/correct scientific falsehoods and misconceptions.
    As I said there's no immune response in time to stop the virus replication and avoid the killer inflammation process 'cause it's NOT the virus that kills you directly. It's the lung engulfment process due to the cytokines and happening in some individuals (related to age AND other specific features, it's why we have only SEVEN "young" deaths over 3000).
    The lungs literally deteriorate - fibrosis - and can't function properly no matter the infection is solved or not!

    There's no misconceptions here, the elders immune system does NOT respond in time to avoid the disaster, it's no use to say that in 40 y.o. people the immune system works. Of course it works, they can control the infection and all the direct and indirect consequences. It's a tautology. For young people this IS an influenza-like desease.
    Last edited by lowenz; 19th Mar 2020 at 15:26.

  22. #622
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night

  23. #623
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    As I said there's no immune response in time to stop the virus replication and avoid the killer inflammation
    No you didn't, you said there was no immune response at all.

    it's NOT the virus that kills you directly.
    No infection ever kills you directly.

    They all kill you as a result of something else. Ultimately there are only 3 causes of death - permanent cessation of the central, cardiovascular or respiratory systems.


    This is all irrelevant though, and the science behind it (unless you are actually working on it) should be far down everyone's list of priorities.

    The important thing is what we do about it now. And that, imho, is lock down in a similar way to Greece, France, Italy and Spain. I'm hoping that the UK is locked down asap, or at least London.

  24. #624
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    No you didn't, you said there was no immune response at all.
    Yeah, IN THE TIME OF NEED.

    There's no use of "days" (a week in elders?) if the infection activates a deranged cytokine response BEFORE the immune system can suppress the pathogen responsible of the infection.
    4 days for symptoms->hospitalization + 4 days for hospitalization->death (=8 days, the average time for the most severe cases with exitus where ICU can't help)
    Interstitial pneumonia can get you kill with NO MORE active infection at all.
    Last edited by lowenz; 19th Mar 2020 at 20:06.

  25. #625
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Can someone explain why the idea of Herd Immunity makes any sense ?
    In this case there's NO immunity 'cause:
    ...
    2) Actually Coronaviruses seem to NOT wake up the immune system at all
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    As I said there's no immune response in time...
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    No you didn't, you said there was no immune response at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    Yeah, IN THE TIME OF NEED.
    Lowenz, stop. We can still see what you originally wrote. You said there's no immunity because it doesn't wake up the immune system at all. Slow immune response time to a novel infection isn't what you wrote, and if it's somehow related, you haven't even tried to explain why.

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