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Thread: ☣ Coronavirus ☣

  1. #776
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: uk
    I think the plan prior to every moron in the country going out at the weekend was to do this at the end of the week as all the powers to actually do it are in the Coronavirus Bill currently working its way through parliament.

  2. #777
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Man, everyone's so uptight at the moment.

    I just proposed that liquor and fireworks stores should be considered essential services, and now people are mad at me.

  3. #778
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Jafaville New Zealand
    We're going into non essential lockdown in just over 24 hours. What people still don't understand here is that supermarkets are classed as essential. And will stay open. Bunch of dumbasses.

  4. #779
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2000
    Location: Portreath Cornwall UK
    Lock down, pity there isnít a new thief game out there. It would be a joy to stay in.

  5. #780
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Just go looting in the Old City sector. That should be atmospheric enough.

  6. #781
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Washington DC
    I'm pretty fucking mad about Trump encouraging people to go get chloroquine, touting it as an actual cure.

    Not only is the chloroquine supply limited enough that panic-buying idiots represent a serious threat to people who actually need it, but anyone who's actually had to take chloroquine can tell you how awful of a drug it is. Intense nausea and diarrhea, cramps, sensitivity to light, high frequency of more serious reactions- I had to take it for malaria once and I'm not sure which was worse, the disease or the cure. And on top of that it's incredibly easy to die from it, with overdoses reported from as little as double the recommended dosage.

    So color me absolutely not fucking surprised that people in countries where it's readily available are already overdosing from it, while in the US, someone has already died from ingesting cleaning products containing chloroquine.

    And that asshole is getting on Twitter and talking up how chloroquine plus a common antibiotic will fix the situation, and he's got a 'good feeling' about it. For fuck's sake. It would be dumb enough on its own, but inciting the panicking masses to endanger themselves and others with what amounts to a reckless fad is something else entirely.

  7. #782
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Medlar View Post
    Lock down, pity there isn’t a new thief game out there. It would be a joy to stay in.
    *Thi4f and its GLOOM
    *TDS and Sneaky Upgrade
    *The Dark Mod

  8. #783
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by catbarf View Post
    I'm pretty fucking mad about Trump encouraging people to go get chloroquine, touting it as an actual cure.

    Not only is the chloroquine supply limited enough that panic-buying idiots represent a serious threat to people who actually need it, but anyone who's actually had to take chloroquine can tell you how awful of a drug it is. Intense nausea and diarrhea, cramps, sensitivity to light, high frequency of more serious reactions- I had to take it for malaria once and I'm not sure which was worse, the disease or the cure. And on top of that it's incredibly easy to die from it, with overdoses reported from as little as double the recommended dosage.

    So color me absolutely not fucking surprised that people in countries where it's readily available are already overdosing from it, while in the US, someone has already died from ingesting cleaning products containing chloroquine.

    And that asshole is getting on Twitter and talking up how chloroquine plus a common antibiotic will fix the situation, and he's got a 'good feeling' about it. For fuck's sake. It would be dumb enough on its own, but inciting the panicking masses to endanger themselves and others with what amounts to a reckless fad is something else entirely.
    He's Trump exactly for this.

  9. #784
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    He's Trump exactly for this.
    So, once again, Trump fucked up. His irresponsibility in recommending a drug that, at the very best, has some potential to possibly ease the most severe effects of the virus (research pending to be determined) as an absolute cure-all could end up making a bad situation even worse as dipshits panic buy it, leaving those who need it without their medication..

    We'll forgive him tomorrow. Tout him as the greatest president ever the day after that.

  10. #785
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by zombe View Post
    I wonder when will come the point when testing for the virus gets completely abandoned. .... Now it seem some places in USA seem to give up on testing anyone not already needing hospitalization
    This is where we are in NL.

    Today I learned that we hardly test people anymore. It seems the only systemic set of tests is when people get so ill, that they need to be hospitalized. Only then they get tested. So the hospital knows where to put that person: in the covid-19 half of the hospital, or in the other half.

    We have 2 daily late-night talk-shows in NL on TV. The last few weeks, the only subject they talk about is the corona virus. Normally those 2 shows invite a mix of people: politicians, celebreties, singers, actors, and sometimes more serious people. These weeks the level of guests has improved significantly. Not only relevant politicians (minister of health, etc), but also doctors, nurses, scientists. And the people in charge, like the head of our national health institution, executives of hospitals, etc. Normally nobody in those shows give out any real or relevant information. Politicians are there to improve their ratings, nothing else. But these new people actually take the discussion very serious. They want to educate the viewers. Emphasise how important it is to stay the fuck home. But they also give out real numbers. And they try to explain what those numbers mean, or how they can/should/must/might be interpreted. E.g. I learned 2-3 weeks ago they had 1150 ICU beds in the whole of our country. And that they had 50 covid-19 patients in the ICU. Yesterday I learned they now have 450 covid-19 patients in ICUs.

    A number of general practitioners were guests. They all talk about how they don't get tested. Yesterday, there was a lady GP at the table in one talkshow, who told the story how here husband (also a GP) got ill. Pretty ill, but not ill enough to go to the hospital. He was tested. Positive. A few days later, this lady GP also starts to get symptoms, including a fever. So she self-quarantines. After a few days, symptoms went away. So she told the audience: "24 hours later, I went back to work". She's not been tested, 24 hours after he fever went away, she was already treating patients again. The fuck ? And another 24 hours later she is sitting in the studio doing this talk-show ! You could see half the other guests at the table go pale, and think WTF!?!. Her defense was: official guidelines say that 24 hours after the symptoms go away, you can go back to work".

    But it seems this is normal in NL now. If you get symptoms, you will 100% sure not get tested. You're supposed to self-quarantine. There is no testing to confirm you are recovered. Our GPs do not get tested (as a rule-of-thumb). People who work in homes for the elderly, who provide care-at-home, who work in institutions for physically or mentally handicapped people do not get tested. Heck, people in hospitals have good protection (suites, masks, gloves). GPs have huge shortages of protective gear. One GP showed a picture of him in an overall he bought at the shop for building materials. But all the other caretakers get nothing. And no testing.

    From listening to those GPs and other people "at the frontlines" in those talk-shows, I get the strong impression they would like to see much more testing. But all the politicians downplay the importance of testing. I think that must be because we have way way too few tests available. We have the capacity in our labs, but we don't have the materials. And our country doesn't have the capabilities (factories, base materials, etc) to produce these tests ourselves. We depend on import. Another weird thing here is that from the start, the official guideline in NL was: "facemasks don't provide good enough protection, so there's no need for anyone to wear them". Of course people in hospitals, and even GPs, wear them. But nobody in the street does. While we've all seen the images from China, South-Korea, Japan and other Asian countries. Everybody in the street wears them. Cheap masks give 80% protection. The better masks give 95% protection. (I don't know what those percentages mean. 80% of what ?). I am convinced that if they're not perfect, they surely must help. If I had one (none for sale anywhere) I would wear it when I go outside (for shopping once every 2 weeks). I am positive that our guideline to not bother with mask is 100% because we don't have any masks for the public.


    The good news in NL is: all those "strong advisories" we had, are now mandatory. Last weekend the sun was shining. Loads of people went outside. Crowded beaches on saturday. So the mayors closed all the parking lots near the beaches. Sunday our forests and parks were flooded with people. People just don't care. Now things are mandatory. People can get fined 400 euros for going outside without a good reason. Or getting together with more than 2 people in public. These measures will last until June 1st. Our prime-minister has hinted that if people still don't follow up, the next step will be full lockdown. It seems our government is slowly taking this serious. Now we need the people to start realizing.
    Last edited by Gryzemuis; 23rd Mar 2020 at 20:10.

  11. #786
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Her defense was: official guidelines say that 24 hours after the symptoms go away, you can go back to work".
    That sounds like some straight up bullshit. From what I've seen, those who have fully recovered from it still remain quarantined for about a week before they're let loose.

  12. #787
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Yes, I agree. That's why I told the story. That's why the other guests in the studio were shocked that she was sitting at the table with 2 presenters and 7 other guests. But it is indeed the official guideline.

    I think a lot of our "guidelines" that were set earlier, were inspired by politics more than science. To prevent a panic. To prevent people stockpiling stuff. Remember 2 weeks ago (or more) the WHO was saying "people are contagious from the first day they get infected". And later "we think people are most contagious in the first days after they get infected, way before they get symptoms" ? Even after the WHO said that, I still heard people on national TV say "as long as you don't have symptoms, you are not contagious". That's nuts. That's dumb. That is irresponsible.

    Yesterday I felt depressed. I'm taking this very serious myself. But it hasn't affected me mentally. I'm a single guy. Living in a large and comfy house, neighbors are all 100+ meter away. I'm doing fine. But I saw the people in NL this weekend, acting as if everything is fine and dandy. I told me dad (80+) to do shopping once a week, and stay inside the house. Well, go outside to walk the dog of course. Friday he told me he's doing groceries every day again, because sitting at home was driving him crazy. I keep in touch via phone with a few friends. One of them works in a record shop. No masks, no gloves, nothing. This weekend his boss decided to finally close the record shop. So my friends says "I now have time to come visit you for one or 2 days, what do you think ?" Huh ?!? I'm taking this "social distancing" serious. He works in a shop, knowing what the risks are, and then wants to come visit me ? On top of that, his girlfriend works in a hospital. Not at the beds, but in a middle-management role. The hospital decided that middle-management doesn't need masks or gloves or anything. Why the fuck you think you're welcome in my house ? Let's at least wait 1-2 weeks incubation time. He didn't even think of that. I can go on and on with examples of people not seeing any risks anywhere.

    I don't know why. Maybe it's cellphones. Maybe it's comic books. Maybe it's that new Jazz music thing. But people don't use their brains anymore. I'm cautious. I do the social distancing, as we're being asked. But if I compare myself to almost anyone else, I wonder if I've become a paranoid, negative, sour and bitter person. Am I crazy ? Should I just say "fuck corona, yolo, I do what I want" !!? Of course not. But it's depressing.

    Again, the good thing is that suprisingly our government is more serious about the (partial) lockdown now.
    I still don't see a way to get out of this mess within 12-18 months. But at least the government has shown now that is willing to act.

  13. #788
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    I'm left wondering if we've always been this stupid, or if it's just a recent development.

  14. #789
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Well, all of this shit is depressing ... anyway, heard that Contagion ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contagion_(2011_film) ) was a decent movie and i need to fix my day-night cycle (the hard way) ... seems like a good idea.

    edit: some good bits, but mostly kinda crap. 5 more hours to go ... new what?
    Last edited by zombe; 23rd Mar 2020 at 23:15.

  15. #790
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    The notion that you're not contagious until you're symptomatic and not contagious after 24 hours post symptoms are standard advice for colds and flus. Apparently we know at least the former doesn't apply to COVID-19. I'm not at all sure about the latter?

  16. #791

  17. #792
    Quote Originally Posted by Medlar View Post
    Lock down, pity there isnít a new thief game out there. It would be a joy to stay in.
    Well, it's the 20th anniversary of Thief 2 this week, so starting tomorrow thru the end of the week, there should be anywhere from 10-12 new fan missions released to play.

  18. #793
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    This is Rolling Stone, so take it with a grain of salt if you will, but they do offer up a few valid points that we should be considering concerning.

    It's true. The Fox News talking heads are saying that we should just bite the bullet, and plow straight through this. Trump does tend to lean on them for policy decisions, and yeah, if we don't worry about flattening the curve, it'll be over with in a couple of weeks. That all cap quote Trump made on Twitter about the cure being worse than the disease does seem to point towards him toying with the idea. And yes, he does consider the stock market the core value of his presidency.

    Now there have been plenty of times where our president has flirted with crazy in the past, only to back down at the last second, and take a more measured stance. These initial impressions don't necessarily mean anything.

    ...but, you know, the stock market was doing great in the past, which did temper him somewhat. Trump doesn't have that advantage at the moment, and he really needs it for the upcoming election. If he decides to drop this whole quarantine spiel to get everyone back to work, moving the economy again, it's a pretty desperate ploy on his part to get things back in his favor. It will be spectacularly stupid, and we will be the ones to pay the price.

    He'll have to override the states to get it done, which he can do through the executive authority granted him during a crisis. If it happens, things'll probably be fine for a week or so. We'll still see the exponential uptick in cases, but confidence on Wall Street might boost a bit, and we'll start to see an upturn on the Dow Jones. Then the shit will hit the fan. It will be mass pandemonium the likes of which will make Italy look tame in comparison. Tens of millions of people exposing themselves directly to the virus. If the stats hold true, then 20% of these cases will end up needing intensive care.

    We have just shy of 1,000,000 ICU beds in the country, and probably only a quarter of that amount in ventilators.

    Let's hope to God Above that this is just Rolling Stone posting an edgy article to fearmonger up some clicks, and Trump isn't really considering this.
    Last edited by Renzatic; 23rd Mar 2020 at 23:51.

  19. #794
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    And yes, he does consider the stock market the core value of his presidency.
    I think that's vastly underestimating his conflict of interest. His multi-billion dollar business holdings are hotels and golf resorts, which are, to put it mildly, not doing great right now. Further, it's likely he's deeply leveraged (in debt) to various interests, likely mostly Russian. This could literally bankrupt him, and/or drive him to have to sell core assets.

    Would Trump let millions of Americans die to save himself from public financial humiliation? ...Is that a dumb question?

  20. #795
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    He could save himself without endangering the public by lifting the quarantine, but it's a good reason as to why we don't want the Republicans to hand Trump the keys to the $500 billion bailout treasury.

    If the bailout bill passes as-is, his administration is allowed to use the money as they see fit without oversight to save our industries.

    Trump's business is the hospitality business.

    His business will suffer greatly due to coronavirus hindering travel and tourism.

    He thus has the perfect excuse to bail out his own company, and keep it secret for 6 months.

  21. #796
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Yeah, I think it's no coincidence that the Democrats balking at the slush fund almost immediately preceded Trump floating the idea of ending the quarantine quickly.

  22. #797
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    You know what? Let him do it. Let it be a cleansing fire. May we all die for his hubris.

  23. #798
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Cheap masks give 80% protection. The better masks give 95% protection. (I don't know what those percentages mean. 80% of what ?). I am convinced that if they're not perfect, they surely must help. If I had one (none for sale anywhere) I would wear it when I go outside (for shopping once every 2 weeks). I am positive that our guideline to not bother with mask is 100% because we don't have any masks for the public.
    Masks provide little protection for the wearer (if virus droplets gets stuck the first breath - it will probably dislodge later and continue like nothing happened). The purpose of masks is mostly for the patients to wear to considerably help reducing spread (think in lines of "cough muffler"). Still, it is better than nothing for the healthy ones too to wear ... marginally.

    For viruses you need the N95 filters which are sufficient to block the droplets (the virus is actually smaller than the filter, but the virus never travels without other shit sticking to it - which makes it too big to pass the filter).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Again, the good thing is that suprisingly our government is more serious about the (partial) lockdown now.
    I still don't see a way to get out of this mess within 12-18 months. But at least the government has shown now that is willing to act.
    Good to hear things are starting to get the attention they deserve.

    Our infections per pop value is pretty much the same - we had a few super-spreaders at the start (the really infuriatingly idiotic kind), but there is hope things are getting more stable. We started to run low on test-kits, but that got sorted for now at least. Since then testing has been ramped up a bit - however, new case count has been really sluggish to respond in kind (~1.0 rate) - which is great. Hoping it won't explode again. I basically check EVERY bad box there is for this disease - it is fairly unlikely i would survive it. So far our government has quick enough and dropped the usual political BS.

    State of emergency declared at March 12 (gives government various powers, that would be illegal at normal times, to deal with the emergency) - which allowed to do:

    March 12: Declares a leader for the emergency response.
    March 13: Restrictions to education institutions - all schools to be closed and adapt distance learning. Exceptions for research etc. All public gatherings forbidden. Movement restrictions between other countries over sea. Welfare institution (like elderly care centers etc), hospital and detention visit ban.
    March 14: Non essential public services closed etc (ex: Gym's) and special exceptions (none of which i am able to translate). Travel ban over various county borders (where it makes sense - we have plenty of islands) and lots of exceptions to serve said county needs.
    March 16: Restrictions for 14 days for anyone entering the country (ie. quarantine) and special exceptions (ex: cargo transport). Supplemental editions and fine-tuning for various stuff.
    March 17: Declares various sub-leaders to deal with various stuff (figure out how to rearrange work'n'shit between institutions for co-operation outside the usual lines; keeping the public informed what is going on and what to do and not to do; establish communication lines via telecom companies [whether they like it or not] for informing people - inc. whoever is 'roaming' under their coverage). Ban all booze sales from 22:00 - 10:00. Supplemental editions and fine-tuning for various stuff.
    yadda-yadda-yadda

    State of emergency enables commanding companies etc to do what is needed (like: drop whatever they are doing and start producing medical equipment or whatever).

    Also, state of emergency enacts various other restrictions: essential services MUST continue and strikes etc are banned ... ie. the obvious stuff. Ex: internet is declared essential service - YAY! HERE I AM!

    So far people have been responding well and following the stuff just fine.

  24. #799
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    It's amazing to think that dipshits like Vae think this is a fine example of leadership.
    I never made any such statement...So you have just lied.

    Your lies and malicious personal attacks are unacceptable, and only demonstrate your unscrupulous behavior.


    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    the stock market was doing great in the past, which did temper him somewhat. Trump doesn't have that advantage at the moment, and he really needs it for the upcoming election.
    This is incorrect.

    For the past three years, Trump has proven himself exceptional with the economy by bringing it to new heights. If the pandemic continues into November, and the economy is still struggling, he will be looked at as an embattled king that is fighting against a foreign invader (by everyone but anti-Trumpers), with a majority supporting the idea that he will once again restore the economy once the war has been won.

    However, the more likely scenario is that the pandemic will reach its peak during May and June, with the distinct possibility that this peak is mitigated by Hydroxychloroquine, Zithromax, and/or azithromycin anti-viral treatments, if the current trials are successful and enough can be produced in time.

    If Trump succeeds in largely restoring the economy and conquering the fear of the virus before November, he will be hailed as a hero and be more popular than ever.

    So Trump wins either way...it's only a matter of how big the win will be.

  25. #800
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    I never made any such statement...So you have just lied.

    Your lies and malicious personal attacks are unacceptable, and only demonstrate your unscrupulous behavior.
    Shut the fuck up, Vae.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    However, the more likely scenario is that the pandemic will reach its peak during May and June, with the distinct possibility that this peak is mitigated by Hydroxychloroquine, Zithromax, and/or azithromycin anti-viral treatments, if the current trials are successful and enough can be produced in time.
    Right now, it's a promising maybe, though the clinical trials won't be finished until December. People can attempt to self mediciate, both Plaquenil and Azithromycin are readily available (I could pick of bottles of both at my parent's house), but, well, they're dangerous drugs. Not something anyone should be taking lightly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    For the past three years, Trump has proven himself exceptional with the economy by bringing it to new heights. If the pandemic continues into November, and the economy is still struggling, he will be looked at as an embattled king that is fighting against a foreign invader (by everyone but anti-Trumpers), with a majority supporting the idea that he will once again restore the economy once the war has been won.
    Oh, the hero worship you so vehemently denied just a couple paragraph above.

    Name one policy he's enacted that helped boost the economy. I can think of exactly two myself. Let's see what you add.
    Last edited by Renzatic; 24th Mar 2020 at 01:56.

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