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Thread: ☣ Coronavirus ☣

  1. #826
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Yes, I agree. That's why I told the story. That's why the other guests in the studio were shocked that she was sitting at the table with 2 presenters and 7 other guests. But it is indeed the official guideline.

    I think a lot of our "guidelines" that were set earlier, were inspired by politics more than science. To prevent a panic. To prevent people stockpiling stuff. Remember 2 weeks ago (or more) the WHO was saying "people are contagious from the first day they get infected". And later "we think people are most contagious in the first days after they get infected, way before they get symptoms" ? Even after the WHO said that, I still heard people on national TV say "as long as you don't have symptoms, you are not contagious". That's nuts. That's dumb. That is irresponsible.

    Yesterday I felt depressed. I'm taking this very serious myself. But it hasn't affected me mentally. I'm a single guy. Living in a large and comfy house, neighbors are all 100+ meter away. I'm doing fine. But I saw the people in NL this weekend, acting as if everything is fine and dandy. I told me dad (80+) to do shopping once a week, and stay inside the house. Well, go outside to walk the dog of course. Friday he told me he's doing groceries every day again, because sitting at home was driving him crazy. I keep in touch via phone with a few friends. One of them works in a record shop. No masks, no gloves, nothing. This weekend his boss decided to finally close the record shop. So my friends says "I now have time to come visit you for one or 2 days, what do you think ?" Huh ?!? I'm taking this "social distancing" serious. He works in a shop, knowing what the risks are, and then wants to come visit me ? On top of that, his girlfriend works in a hospital. Not at the beds, but in a middle-management role. The hospital decided that middle-management doesn't need masks or gloves or anything. Why the fuck you think you're welcome in my house ? Let's at least wait 1-2 weeks incubation time. He didn't even think of that. I can go on and on with examples of people not seeing any risks anywhere.

    I don't know why. Maybe it's cellphones. Maybe it's comic books. Maybe it's that new Jazz music thing. But people don't use their brains anymore. I'm cautious. I do the social distancing, as we're being asked. But if I compare myself to almost anyone else, I wonder if I've become a paranoid, negative, sour and bitter person. Am I crazy ? Should I just say "fuck corona, yolo, I do what I want" !!? Of course not. But it's depressing.

    Again, the good thing is that suprisingly our government is more serious about the (partial) lockdown now.
    I still don't see a way to get out of this mess within 12-18 months. But at least the government has shown now that is willing to act.

  2. #827
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    I'm left wondering if we've always been this stupid, or if it's just a recent development.

  3. #828
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Well, all of this shit is depressing ... anyway, heard that Contagion ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contagion_(2011_film) ) was a decent movie and i need to fix my day-night cycle (the hard way) ... seems like a good idea.

    edit: some good bits, but mostly kinda crap. 5 more hours to go ... new what?
    Last edited by zombe; 23rd Mar 2020 at 23:15.

  4. #829
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    The notion that you're not contagious until you're symptomatic and not contagious after 24 hours post symptoms are standard advice for colds and flus. Apparently we know at least the former doesn't apply to COVID-19. I'm not at all sure about the latter?

  5. #830

  6. #831
    Quote Originally Posted by Medlar View Post
    Lock down, pity there isnít a new thief game out there. It would be a joy to stay in.
    Well, it's the 20th anniversary of Thief 2 this week, so starting tomorrow thru the end of the week, there should be anywhere from 10-12 new fan missions released to play.

  7. #832
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    This is Rolling Stone, so take it with a grain of salt if you will, but they do offer up a few valid points that we should be considering concerning.

    It's true. The Fox News talking heads are saying that we should just bite the bullet, and plow straight through this. Trump does tend to lean on them for policy decisions, and yeah, if we don't worry about flattening the curve, it'll be over with in a couple of weeks. That all cap quote Trump made on Twitter about the cure being worse than the disease does seem to point towards him toying with the idea. And yes, he does consider the stock market the core value of his presidency.

    Now there have been plenty of times where our president has flirted with crazy in the past, only to back down at the last second, and take a more measured stance. These initial impressions don't necessarily mean anything.

    ...but, you know, the stock market was doing great in the past, which did temper him somewhat. Trump doesn't have that advantage at the moment, and he really needs it for the upcoming election. If he decides to drop this whole quarantine spiel to get everyone back to work, moving the economy again, it's a pretty desperate ploy on his part to get things back in his favor. It will be spectacularly stupid, and we will be the ones to pay the price.

    He'll have to override the states to get it done, which he can do through the executive authority granted him during a crisis. If it happens, things'll probably be fine for a week or so. We'll still see the exponential uptick in cases, but confidence on Wall Street might boost a bit, and we'll start to see an upturn on the Dow Jones. Then the shit will hit the fan. It will be mass pandemonium the likes of which will make Italy look tame in comparison. Tens of millions of people exposing themselves directly to the virus. If the stats hold true, then 20% of these cases will end up needing intensive care.

    We have just shy of 1,000,000 ICU beds in the country, and probably only a quarter of that amount in ventilators.

    Let's hope to God Above that this is just Rolling Stone posting an edgy article to fearmonger up some clicks, and Trump isn't really considering this.
    Last edited by Renzatic; 23rd Mar 2020 at 23:51.

  8. #833
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    And yes, he does consider the stock market the core value of his presidency.
    I think that's vastly underestimating his conflict of interest. His multi-billion dollar business holdings are hotels and golf resorts, which are, to put it mildly, not doing great right now. Further, it's likely he's deeply leveraged (in debt) to various interests, likely mostly Russian. This could literally bankrupt him, and/or drive him to have to sell core assets.

    Would Trump let millions of Americans die to save himself from public financial humiliation? ...Is that a dumb question?

  9. #834
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    He could save himself without endangering the public by lifting the quarantine, but it's a good reason as to why we don't want the Republicans to hand Trump the keys to the $500 billion bailout treasury.

    If the bailout bill passes as-is, his administration is allowed to use the money as they see fit without oversight to save our industries.

    Trump's business is the hospitality business.

    His business will suffer greatly due to coronavirus hindering travel and tourism.

    He thus has the perfect excuse to bail out his own company, and keep it secret for 6 months.

  10. #835
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Yeah, I think it's no coincidence that the Democrats balking at the slush fund almost immediately preceded Trump floating the idea of ending the quarantine quickly.

  11. #836
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    You know what? Let him do it. Let it be a cleansing fire. May we all die for his hubris.

  12. #837
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Cheap masks give 80% protection. The better masks give 95% protection. (I don't know what those percentages mean. 80% of what ?). I am convinced that if they're not perfect, they surely must help. If I had one (none for sale anywhere) I would wear it when I go outside (for shopping once every 2 weeks). I am positive that our guideline to not bother with mask is 100% because we don't have any masks for the public.
    Masks provide little protection for the wearer (if virus droplets gets stuck the first breath - it will probably dislodge later and continue like nothing happened). The purpose of masks is mostly for the patients to wear to considerably help reducing spread (think in lines of "cough muffler"). Still, it is better than nothing for the healthy ones too to wear ... marginally.

    For viruses you need the N95 filters which are sufficient to block the droplets (the virus is actually smaller than the filter, but the virus never travels without other shit sticking to it - which makes it too big to pass the filter).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Again, the good thing is that suprisingly our government is more serious about the (partial) lockdown now.
    I still don't see a way to get out of this mess within 12-18 months. But at least the government has shown now that is willing to act.
    Good to hear things are starting to get the attention they deserve.

    Our infections per pop value is pretty much the same - we had a few super-spreaders at the start (the really infuriatingly idiotic kind), but there is hope things are getting more stable. We started to run low on test-kits, but that got sorted for now at least. Since then testing has been ramped up a bit - however, new case count has been really sluggish to respond in kind (~1.0 rate) - which is great. Hoping it won't explode again. I basically check EVERY bad box there is for this disease - it is fairly unlikely i would survive it. So far our government has quick enough and dropped the usual political BS.

    State of emergency declared at March 12 (gives government various powers, that would be illegal at normal times, to deal with the emergency) - which allowed to do:

    March 12: Declares a leader for the emergency response.
    March 13: Restrictions to education institutions - all schools to be closed and adapt distance learning. Exceptions for research etc. All public gatherings forbidden. Movement restrictions between other countries over sea. Welfare institution (like elderly care centers etc), hospital and detention visit ban.
    March 14: Non essential public services closed etc (ex: Gym's) and special exceptions (none of which i am able to translate). Travel ban over various county borders (where it makes sense - we have plenty of islands) and lots of exceptions to serve said county needs.
    March 16: Restrictions for 14 days for anyone entering the country (ie. quarantine) and special exceptions (ex: cargo transport). Supplemental editions and fine-tuning for various stuff.
    March 17: Declares various sub-leaders to deal with various stuff (figure out how to rearrange work'n'shit between institutions for co-operation outside the usual lines; keeping the public informed what is going on and what to do and not to do; establish communication lines via telecom companies [whether they like it or not] for informing people - inc. whoever is 'roaming' under their coverage). Ban all booze sales from 22:00 - 10:00. Supplemental editions and fine-tuning for various stuff.
    yadda-yadda-yadda

    State of emergency enables commanding companies etc to do what is needed (like: drop whatever they are doing and start producing medical equipment or whatever).

    Also, state of emergency enacts various other restrictions: essential services MUST continue and strikes etc are banned ... ie. the obvious stuff. Ex: internet is declared essential service - YAY! HERE I AM!

    So far people have been responding well and following the stuff just fine.

  13. #838
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    It's amazing to think that dipshits like Vae think this is a fine example of leadership.
    I never made any such statement...So you have just lied.

    Your lies and malicious personal attacks are unacceptable, and only demonstrate your unscrupulous behavior.


    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    the stock market was doing great in the past, which did temper him somewhat. Trump doesn't have that advantage at the moment, and he really needs it for the upcoming election.
    This is incorrect.

    For the past three years, Trump has proven himself exceptional with the economy by bringing it to new heights. If the pandemic continues into November, and the economy is still struggling, he will be looked at as an embattled king that is fighting against a foreign invader (by everyone but anti-Trumpers), with a majority supporting the idea that he will once again restore the economy once the war has been won.

    However, the more likely scenario is that the pandemic will reach its peak during May and June, with the distinct possibility that this peak is mitigated by Hydroxychloroquine, Zithromax, and/or azithromycin anti-viral treatments, if the current trials are successful and enough can be produced in time.

    If Trump succeeds in largely restoring the economy and conquering the fear of the virus before November, he will be hailed as a hero and be more popular than ever.

    So Trump wins either way...it's only a matter of how big the win will be.

  14. #839
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    I never made any such statement...So you have just lied.

    Your lies and malicious personal attacks are unacceptable, and only demonstrate your unscrupulous behavior.
    Shut the fuck up, Vae.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    However, the more likely scenario is that the pandemic will reach its peak during May and June, with the distinct possibility that this peak is mitigated by Hydroxychloroquine, Zithromax, and/or azithromycin anti-viral treatments, if the current trials are successful and enough can be produced in time.
    Right now, it's a promising maybe, though the clinical trials won't be finished until December. People can attempt to self mediciate, both Plaquenil and Azithromycin are readily available (I could pick of bottles of both at my parent's house), but, well, they're dangerous drugs. Not something anyone should be taking lightly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    For the past three years, Trump has proven himself exceptional with the economy by bringing it to new heights. If the pandemic continues into November, and the economy is still struggling, he will be looked at as an embattled king that is fighting against a foreign invader (by everyone but anti-Trumpers), with a majority supporting the idea that he will once again restore the economy once the war has been won.
    Oh, the hero worship you so vehemently denied just a couple paragraph above.

    Name one policy he's enacted that helped boost the economy. I can think of exactly two myself. Let's see what you add.
    Last edited by Renzatic; 24th Mar 2020 at 01:56.

  15. #840
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Total aside, but have you ever noticed how the true Trump fanatics always sound like goddamn Moonies?

    :soft monotone voice: He is the greatest president. A true visionary without equal. Through his iron will and gift for diplomacy, he wrested the ruins of our country from the foul jowls of peril, and truly Made America Great Again. He will rise ascendant in 2020, defeating all others through the force of his character, and will only be replaced by another of his line in 2024. This pandemic concerns me not. If it continues into November, and the economy is still struggling, he will be looked at as an embattled king that is fighting against a foreign invader. I truly have faith in our dear great leader who is beloved by all.

  16. #841
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    I never made any such statement...So you have just lied.

    Your lies and malicious personal attacks are unacceptable, and only demonstrate your unscrupulous behavior.
    Except, Renz never claimed you made such a statement, only that dipshits like you think that Lord Dampnut is a fine leader -- which you amply demonstrate in the very next thing you say when you immediately start praising your dear leader on his... uh... exceptional economy skills. The very same economy skills that let him bankrupt so many businesses, fraud people out of their money, and get hundreds of millions in debt.

    And btw, no matter where the virus originally came from, it's now as American as apple pie. It's in American bodies, produced by Americans for Americans.

  17. #842
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    I just realized something.

    Coronavirus possibly being stopped by the warm weather this summer? Let's look to Australia. It's like 150C down there right now. Let's see how they're handling this.

    ...oh, it's spreading. Fuck.
    Last edited by Renzatic; 24th Mar 2020 at 02:38.

  18. #843
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    An article mentioned that it spreads faster in warmer climates compared to colder ones. I'd believe that for any contageous disease though.

  19. #844
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    I just realized something.

    Coronavirus possibly being stopped by the warm weather this summer? Let's look to Australia. It's like 150C down there right now. Let's see how they're handling this.

    ...oh, it's spreading. Fuck.
    I get that Oz is basically acknowledged as a place where the optimal conditions for normal life all decided to take a holiday away from, but ascribing the ambient temperature to 50 percent above the boiling point of water's a little much. Essentially that'd be all life flash heated into bubbling lumps of gelatin and smoked wood chips - admittedly not a far cry from where they are today, but still, I think, a bit much.

    Anyway, re: temperatures and disease, I think a bigger effect on spread would be environmental factors like local precipitation and humidity rather than the temperature as such. Here's an article that's mostly question marks, but makes for interesting reading.
    Last edited by Sulphur; 24th Mar 2020 at 03:03.

  20. #845
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    It's fairly typical that corona-type viruses aren't seasonal in the same way as influenza viruses.

  21. #846
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    Shut the fuck up, Vae.
    Your personal attack has been noted.

    Oh, the hero worship you so vehemently denied just a couple paragraph above.
    I have never personally stated any "hero worship" for Trump, nor was any discussion of "hero worship" part of the paragraph above.

    You are once again maliciously misrepresenting what I said, which is...

    "If the pandemic continues into November, and the economy is still struggling, he will be looked at as an embattled king that is fighting against a foreign invader (by everyone but anti-Trumpers), with a majority supporting the idea that he will once again restore the economy once the war has been won."

    This means that the majority of the American public will perceive the situation this way, and as a consequence, a struggling economy won't jeopardize him from winning the election. My personal opinion of Trump is irrelevant, and is not part of the equation.

    I suggest that you stop misrepresenting what I have said, as it is unacceptable and undignified.

  22. #847
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    I'm not a fan of Renz's (lack of) moderation style, but your indignant pontification and injured tone over reactions to your retarded spin doctorism is even more annoying than your other posts - so yeah, shut the fuck up, Vae.

  23. #848
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    Your personal attack has been noted.

  24. #849
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulphur View Post
    I'm not a fan of Renz's (lack of) moderation style...
    I probably could and should be a little more, you know, moderate in my tone.

  25. #850
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    You could apologize for your indiscretion, instead of taking the low road.

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