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Thread: ☣ Coronavirus ☣

  1. #901
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    If the containment works.
    It can works AGAINST us too (infection spreading in the locked-down families)
    But this would happen anyway.

  2. #902
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    It's probably gonna happen. Trump is saying he wants the economy moving at full steam again by April 12th. Just two weeks from now.

    The virus won't be gone by then. It'll just lead to another outbreak, and then the economy will crash even harder. Let's hope someone can talk him out of it.
    Well, to be fair, he did promise you'll all get sick from all the winning.

  3. #903
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    The economy will continue tanking until the threat of the virus is over. Suppose we just go back to our normal routines. All the data so far indicates that every significant metropolitan area will end up like Lombardy, Madrid, NYC within maybe 2-4 weeks. And when our health care system is failing simultaneously all over the nation, then what? Do they seriously expect people will stick to their normal routines when we get to that condition? In this case, the best thing for getting the economy going again is also the best thing for saving lives: get the virus behind us.
    Do you actually think Trump has thought things through? It's obviously a hail mary pass to attempt saving the one thing that made Trump look even remotely close to competent.

    Without a high Dow Jones index, what is our president? A loudmouth fuckwit with a dangerously overenthusiastic fanbase. If the economy isn't working in his favor, we can't praise him for the fact that at least we still have our jobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Well, to be fair, he did promise you'll all get sick from all the winning.
    OOOH! DARK!

    ...I'm stealing that.

  4. #904
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Jafaville New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    The only places hiring is supermarkets, due to all the panic buying. But then you'd be on the front line, and highly likely to get the virus. So a catch 22.
    I'm still alive right n...*cough cough cough*

  5. #905
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night

  6. #906
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Jafaville New Zealand
    Sorry, we sold out of that 3 days ago and are waiting for the suppliers to come in. We have a couple of bags of toilet paper and a few scraps of bread. Don't look at the freezer department. But there is plenty of milk.
    Last edited by Renzatic; 24th Mar 2020 at 18:32. Reason: I won't forget this.

  7. #907
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    DON'T QUOTE A PICTURE ON THE VERY NEXT POST, DAMNIT! EDIT THAT NOW!

    Anyway, don't worry, I've got plenty of Lysol to spray you people with.

  8. #908
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Lockdown... if only
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    Do you actually think Trump has thought things through? It's obviously a hail mary pass to attempt saving the one thing that made Trump look even remotely close to competent.

    Without a high Dow Jones index, what is our president? A loudmouth fuckwit with a dangerously overenthusiastic fanbase. If the economy isn't working in his favor, we can't praise him for the fact that at least we still have our jobs.
    True.

    But he did have a chance to pivot. If it was within himself to do so, he could have bucked up and been the steady but decisive leader who saved millions of Americans from death and got this thing over with in two or three months, just in time for summer tourism and conventions. Our economy could have bounced back as fast as China's will. Of course it wasn't within him. And to be fair, it would have required people on the other side of the aisle to follow.

    It's crazy that the threat of something as inherently apolitical as a virus has turned out to be another dividing point and not a unifying one. The last time I remember such divided politics was after the 2000 election, but it came back together after 9/11. Not this time.

  9. #909
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Jafaville New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    DON'T QUOTE A PICTURE ON THE VERY NEXT POST, DAMNIT! EDIT THAT NOW!
    You're the moderator. You do it

    (Who knows, I might be infected)

    But in all seriousness, is it just something that makes server bandwidth bad?

  10. #910
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Lockdown... if only
    BTW, cases are exploding in Louisiana now.

    Sorta related, this is what we get when people think the virus is a political tool:
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/24/us/lo...rus/index.html

  11. #911
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Hey, Bob_Doe. I'm not really mad at you. I just need to look like I'm actually doing my job on occasion, and you were a convenient target.

    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    But he did have a chance to pivot. If it was within himself to do so, he could have bucked up and been the steady but decisive leader who saved millions of Americans from death and got this thing over with in two or three months, just in time for summer tourism and conventions. Our economy could have bounced back as fast as China's will. Of course it wasn't within him. And to be fair, it would have required people on the other side of the aisle to follow.
    It'll likely bounce back even if Trump nixes the quarantine. There aren't any systemic internal issues dragging the economy down like there were in 2008. It's just that under normal circumstances, the chances of it bouncing back to its previous highs by November are about nil, keeping him from using it during the election. It'll take at least a year for things to start getting even close to normal again.

    Though a bunch of people getting sick and dying while our healthcare system crumbles under the stress won't exactly make things any better for him. All he's doing is banking on a nice little temporary upswing in the market he can brag about before it craters again, which will make him look even worse with everything else that'll be going on around him.

    But we also need to consider that Trump is about the luckiest motherfuck on the face of the earth. It could end up just going away, because hey, it turned out that national pride was the real cure all along.

  12. #912
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by bob_doe_nz View Post
    You're the moderator. You do it

    (Who knows, I might be infected)

    But in all seriousness, is it just something that makes server bandwidth bad?
    No real reason other than it looks bad. At the very least, I like to keep a tidy board.

  13. #913
    BANNED
    Registered: Nov 2016
    Location: Trollinus Maximus

  14. #914
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Those are some good special effects.

    So hey, I just left my house for the first time in over a week to get some snus. I didn't want to do it, but I also didn't want to be trapped in my house having a nicotine fit.

    I brave the wilds with my little drywall mask on, and a half gallon of sanitizer. I made sure not to touch anything more than I needed to, and when I got back in the car, I doused myself and everything I brought with me down in that sanitizer. I stink now, and I feel like a complete idiot. And also a little paranoid.

    If anything, I doubt my pride is going to survive this quarantine.

  15. #915
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    Anyway, don't worry, I've got plenty of Lysol to spray you people with.
    Good luck with that stuff, Renz. It has LIE right in the name.

  16. #916
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2010
    I'm not sure if this has been linked in any of the prior 36 pages (I perused a few at random but not exhaustively) - https://coronastats.co/ has a good map overlook with the stats updated frequently.

    Stay safe everyone.

  17. #917
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    So... If you read this article, a Japanese official seems to be indicating that the virus is rampant in Japan and they are just counting the deaths as pneumonia.

    https://asiatimes.com/2020/03/japans...inst-covid-19/

    Quote Originally Posted by Asia Times
    Unspoken strategy

    Still, there are no reports of mass, secret burials. And an official at the ministry – speaking on condition of anonymity – offered Asia Times an unauthorized explanation of Japan’s approach.

    “We are in a period where containment is probably not realistic,” the official said. “We need to focus on treating the serious cases and most experts would quietly agree. If everyone is urged to get testing, then medical institutions will overflow with people who do not need to be there. This not only detracts from taking care of more critical cases, it could indirectly result in a greater health crisis.”

    While South Korea and other countries have established off-site, drive-thru test stations, that is not the case in Japan. But the official also made clear that hospitals can be dangerous places.

    “Please consider that people and patients would also be exposed to higher risks of infection in crowded hospitals and clinics – and secondary infections as well. How does this sound? ‘Come in for a coronavirus test and leave with the flu!’ Unnecessary spending on tests is a waste of government resources, time and fiscals reserves. There is no specific treatment for Covid-19 yet.”

    At a time when other countries are in a panicked lockdown, with virtually all economic activity suspended indefinitely, the official went to the crux of what may be Japan’s unspoken strategy.

    “Ask yourself, ‘What is the value of wisdom when it brings no benefit to those who are the wiser?’ Most of the infected will recover on their own, thanks to their own immune systems. We need to first take care of those whose immune systems are failing them, or the health care system itself will fail.”

    That appears to have kept the medical sector from being overwhelmed.

  18. #918
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Welp. Sounds like they're going to get hammered.

  19. #919
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicker View Post
    Good luck with that stuff, Renz. It has LIE right in the name.
    I've also got this sanitizer that's 63% alcohol. It's up to standards.

  20. #920
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    The Republican party always seemed a bit like a death cult to me, but I didn't realise that GOP stood for Grand Old Pandemic:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...al-dan-patrick

    As Donald Trump pushed to re-open the US economy in weeks, rather than months, the lieutenant governor of Texas went on Fox News to argue that he would rather die than see public health measures damage the US economy, and that he believed “lots of grandparents” across the country would agree with him.

    “My message: let’s get back to work, let’s get back to living, let’s be smart about it, and those of us who are 70-plus, we’ll take care of ourselves,” Lt Gov Dan Patrick, a 69-year-old Republican, told Fox News host Tucker Carlson on Monday night.

    “Don’t sacrifice the country,” Patrick said. “Don’t do that.”

    Patrick said he feared that public health restrictions to prevent coronavirus could end American life as he knows it, and that he is willing to risk death to protect the economy for his grandchildren.
    [...]
    "I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than 3.4% killed, tops, uh, depending on the breaks."
    -- Sen. Ron Turgidson

    https://www.salon.com/2020/03/19/joh...ons-of-deaths/

    Sen. Ron Johnson, R-Wisc., appeared to suggest on Tuesday that he did not believe the American economy should be shut down despite the possibility of millions of deaths from the new coronavirus.

    "I'm not denying what a nasty disease COVID-19 can be and how it's obviously devastating to somewhere between 1 and 3.4 percent of the population," Johnson told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel in an article published Wednesday.

    He added, "But that means 97 to 99 percent will get through this and develop immunities and will be able to move beyond this. But we don't shut down our economy because tens of thousands of people die on the highways. It's a risk we accept so we can move about. We don't shut down our economies because tens of thousands of people die from the common flu."

    Despite acknowledging that the coronavirus was deadlier than the flu, Johnson argued that "getting coronavirus is not a death sentence except for maybe no more than 3.4 percent of our population, (and) I think probably far less."
    [...]
    Last edited by Starker; 25th Mar 2020 at 08:01.

  21. #921
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    It's like they're so desperate to keep from looking bad for the election, they're willing to go to any lengths to save face, up to and including putting millions of Americans at risk.

    The economy will repair itself within a year or two. The damage we'll see waiting this thing out in no way represents an existential threat to the United States. We've got a few months of suck ahead of us, but we'll get through it, and we'll recover. There's no reason to panic over this other than for base politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    "But I do say no more than 3.4% killed, tops, uh, depending on the breaks."
    Yeah, and if we all just "put on a brave face" and head back to work as usual, we'll likely see the infection rate rise to flu like levels. That measly 2-3.5% will equate to around 2 million directly killed by the virus if it infects 60 million people, and will likely end up being even larger if you include all the indirect casualities that'll occur due to our hospitals being overwhelmed, and left unable to care for its usual traffic.

    If it goes all out, and infects that many, you're looking at about twice as many Americans dying than what we lost in WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Desert Storm, and the War on Terror combined. When the numbers get big enough, even the fractions are huge.

    Also, you won't have 97% recovery rate. It'll be more around 80%. It's not a stretch to assume we'll see 10% of those survivors left with lasting lung damage, leading to them possibly being put on disability, which'll strain our economy even more.

    No matter how you cut it, shutting everything down for a couple-three months is not only the more humane option, but also the more cost effective in the long term.
    Last edited by Renzatic; 25th Mar 2020 at 03:14.

  22. #922
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    The economy will repair itself within a year or two. The damage we'll see waiting this thing out in no way represents an existential threat to the United States. We've got a few months of suck ahead of us, but we'll get through it, and we'll recover. There's no reason to panic over this other than for base politics.
    I think that's a bit too simple, though. Economically, this will prove to be an existential threat to some, and more so in those countries where there's less of a social safety net. If you don't have job security, if you haven't got savings stashed away, this is massively scary. "We" will get through it and "we" will recover, but a lot of individuals making up that "we" may not be so lucky.

    Edit: I absolutely agree with you that some level of shut-down is not only essential, it'll also do less economic damage than some stupid soldiering on, but there will be victims apart from the whole health dimension, and more so in a country like the US, I suspect.
    Last edited by Thirith; 25th Mar 2020 at 03:26.

  23. #923
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    See why the welfare is important?
    You can prevent wars (with other wars, sigh) but you can't prevent the action of a new aerial hyper-contagious virus that can use your own life-saving drugs to reach for every body corner.

    You are not getting a viral pneumonia AND the killer interstitial reaction of your own body? You'll get a nice&classic encephalitis or nephropathy thanks to the synergy with the (life-saving) drugs.
    Last edited by lowenz; 25th Mar 2020 at 03:24.

  24. #924
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Oh, and if you think I'm exaggerating when I state that this virus could claim more lives than all our recent wars, here's the tally of all US deaths in the most memorable wars of the last 100 years.

    World War I: 115,000 dead
    World War II: 400,000 dead
    Korean War: 35,000 dead
    Vietnam: 60,000 dead
    Desert Storm: 300 dead
    Iraq II: 5,000 dead
    Afganistan: 3000 dead

    Total: 618,000 dead Americans.

    Projected Coronavirus death toll if we drop the quarantine, and let it infect ~20% of the population, and it ends up killing 1-3.5% of those numbers: 600,000 to 2,100,000

    ...so it's either matches, or claims 4x the amount of Americans who died in all the big foreign wars of the last 100 years, depending on how the dice roll.
    Last edited by Renzatic; 25th Mar 2020 at 03:38.

  25. #925
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirith View Post
    I think that's a bit too simple, though. Economically, this will prove to be an existential threat to some, and more so in those countries where there's less of a social safety net. If you don't have job security, if you haven't got savings stashed away, this is massively scary. "We" will get through it and "we" will recover, but a lot of individuals making up that "we" may not be so lucky.
    It's gonna be ugly. There's no doubt about that. There will be a lot of people who suffer from the fallout of all this.

    But we have some control over how ugly it gets. We need to keep our heads level, and give it a steady, responsible response.

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