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Thread: ☣ Coronavirus ☣

  1. #1176
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    What's the point of deploying a bioweapon within your own borders? To give the enemy time to take precautions?

  2. #1177
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Also, wouldn't the US intelligence agencies have picked up at least something about it considering the magnitude of the operation? The US sent nearly 18 tons of PPE to Wuhan in early February -- I think it shows at least that the US doesn't have any basis to think it was a hostile act:

    https://www.state.gov/the-united-sta...l-coronavirus/

    This week the State Department has facilitated the transportation of nearly 17.8 tons of donated medical supplies to the Chinese people, including masks, gowns, gauze, respirators, and other vital materials.
    [...]

  3. #1178
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    Location: Deutschland/Germany

    No panic.

    After all, there is no increased mortality observed in the reported mortality figures for the COVID-19 affected countries:

    https://www.euromomo.eu

    Exception is Italy for persons 65+. Regard and compare the flu peaks of the past years with today's situation.



    No panic.
    My FM campaigns Garrett's Young Years XTra, Reunion With Basso
    Want your upcoming FM translated in foreign languages?

  4. #1179
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    There's no weapons guys, really.

    Save it for Deus Ex

  5. #1180
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by zappenduster View Post
    After all, there is no increased mortality observed in the reported mortality figures for the COVID-19 affected countries:

    https://www.euromomo.eu

    Exception is Italy for persons 65+. Regard and compare the flu peaks of the past years with today's situation.

    No panic.
    From that site:

    Note concerning COVID-19 related mortality as part of the all-cause mortality figures reported by EuroMOMO

    Over the past few days, the EuroMOMO hub has received many questions about the weekly all-cause mortality data and the possible contribution of any COVID-19 related mortality. Some wonder why no increased mortality is observed in the reported mortality figures for the COVID-19 affected countries.

    The answer is that increased mortality that may occur primarily at subnational level or within smaller focal areas, and/or concentrated within smaller age groups, may not be detectable at the national level, even more so not in the pooled analysis at European level, given the large total population denominator. Furthermore, there is always a few weeks of delay in death registration and reporting. Hence, the EuroMOMO mortality figures for the most recent weeks must be interpreted with some caution.

    Therefore, although increased mortality may not be immediately observable in the EuroMOMO figures, this does not mean that increased mortality does not occur in some areas or in some age groups, including mortality related to COVID-19.

  6. #1181
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by catbarf View Post
    Experts seem to think its structure points to it being a natural mutation rather than anything engineered.
    This group of experts seem to think it's a natural mutation, but also gives a disclaimer.

    Although the evidence shows that SARS-CoV-2 is not a purposefully manipulated virus, it is currently impossible to prove or disprove the other theories of its origin described here. However, since we observed all notable SARS-CoV-2 features, including the optimized RBD and polybasic cleavage site, in related coronaviruses in nature, we do not believe that any type of laboratory-based scenario is plausible.

    More scientific data could swing the balance of evidence to favor one hypothesis over another. Obtaining related viral sequences from animal sources would be the most definitive way of revealing viral origins.
    So there needs to be more research by other experts in order to rule out the bioweapon possibility. To be clear, It probably is just a natural mutation.

    Again, the original question of "Should China be sued by all affected countries of the Corona Virus, on it being the result of a biological weapon?", contains a false premise.

    If it's determined that the virus is a bioweapon, there will be the possibility of war, if it's a natural mutation then there will still be a demand for reparations based on negligence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    What's the point of deploying a bioweapon within your own borders?
    To make it look accidental.

    However, if it does turn out to be a bioweapon, it is much more likely that it accidentally escaped from a lab...which would constitute manslaughter.

    Quote Originally Posted by zappenduster View Post
    No panic.
    Yes, there's no need to panic.

  7. #1182
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Yeah, devastate your own completely unprepared population, give the enemy ample time to prepare, and sow the seeds of anti-government sentiment just to make it look like it's accidental and hope that nobody -- no spies, no moles, no dissidents, no defectors -- will ever get wind of it? What a brilliant strategy. Planning the mass murder of your own people must be such an easy thing to keep under wraps and surely nobody will ever leak such a plan.
    Last edited by Starker; 29th Mar 2020 at 15:18.

  8. #1183
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Indeed. It would be simpler to release the virus and an accompanying disinformation campaign, all around the world. Lock down your own country and wait for chaos to ensue. While the information war plays out, your enemies will be so overwhelmed as to be powerless to take meaningful action on their suspicions, even if they can develop and support them.

    No, this is just nature challenging our deferral of the real cost or humans outstripping the world's ability to sustain our demands.

  9. #1184
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Exactly -- if you were trying to make it look accidental, why not release it in Russia and make it seem like it's their accident?

  10. #1185
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Well, I suppose there is the theory that this accidentally escaped from a lab. If so, I think the world would seek some kind of damages from China. But if it did originate from a lab, we'll never know about it.

    Suing China for negligence would be a bit rich coming from countries whose own response was far more negligent.

  11. #1186
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Exactly -- if you were trying to make it look accidental, why not release it in Russia and make it seem like it's their accident?
    You got it wrong.
    It's a bio-weapon made by the Russians. They deployed it in China, to make the chinese look bad. It's no coincidence that Russia has such low infection-rates.

    See, if we apply just logic, I am sure we will find out which nation is trying to destroy the world for their own benefit. They can hide nothing from us.

  12. #1187
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    I have to interject something here. It's important that we assume the Wuhan virus is just a natural mutation (which is the most likely possibility), unless we find out otherwise from credible sources. The last thing we need right now is to ramp up anxiety when the weather is bad. So please keep that in mind.

  13. #1188
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    All credible sources have stated they have no reason to believe this virus was engineered.

    Now, it's possible that some Chinese biotech plant could've cultivated a natural strain of coronavirus in a petri dish, allowing it to naturally mutate into something that could quickly spread throughout a human population, then releasing it to do just that, but even that's a stretch given the circumstances surrounding it. You want to assume the extreme as the last resort, when you have evidence supporting that conclusion, not as the first guess.

    To start with, it's shit as a bioweapon. It infects a lot of people, sure, but its severity varies too wildly in the one portion of the population you'd want most to effect in a wartime situation: those of fighting age. They get symptoms that range from the sniffles to the worst flu they'll ever have. It rarely causes lasting harm in the 18-30 year old crowd, meaning they'll be back up and in fighting shape within a couple of weeks.

    It has a greater effect on the 40-60 year old crowd, which could be good for knocking out a country's leadership, but the odds of effecting a long lasting disadvantage are still too much of a shitshoot to be a viable weapon of war.

    It has a massive effect on the 60+ crowd, but they'll be cared for by the civilian population, producing no real effect on a country's ability to fight. Also, given that the death toll in that range is considerably higher than the others, it ultimately serves to free up resources for any effected nation to put towards their war effort.

    Without a vaccine in place, it has just as much of a chance to infect the invading force as it does its intended target. Plus, given that coronavirus seems to mutate at about the same rate as influenza, a vaccine would only be good for protecting against the initially released strain. The longer a war goes on for, the more it becomes a liability to everyone involved.

    ...though it is great for kicking an economy right in the chode. Problem there is that it produces a worldwide effect, and China isn't in a good position right now to weather such a storm.

    When you consider what happened in China, and the strengths and weaknesses of this virus as a bioweapon, it seems more likely that it's all down to some guy getting bit by a bat, rather than a potential weapon cultivated in a biolab.

  14. #1189
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    You got it wrong.
    It's a bio-weapon made by the Russians. They deployed it in China, to make the chinese look bad. It's no coincidence that Russia has such low infection-rates.

    See, if we apply just logic, I am sure we will find out which nation is trying to destroy the world for their own benefit. They can hide nothing from us.
    Hmmmm. Who knew that this conspiracy theory business could be so convoluted?

  15. #1190
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicker View Post
    Hmmmm. Who knew that this conspiracy theory business could be so convoluted?
    There's a reason most conspiracy theories stem from very simple starting scenarios, and rarely ever consider the complications that counter the claims they're trying to prove. It's a pretty simple formula. Basically, Since A is B, then CDEFG, where A is the target, B is the effect, and CDEFG are the YOU GOTTA LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE, MAN!

  16. #1191
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    The biggest picture is that even the conspirators don't know the full scope of the conspiracy. Only YouTube pundits do.

  17. #1192
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    You can tell their level of truth exposure by how much they're glowering at the screen in the little caption shot.

  18. #1193
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    What were y'all saying about how a country star would have to die before the red states took this seriously?

    https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/...us-61-n1171666

  19. #1194
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    THE LIBTARDS MURDERED OUR MUSIC WITH THEIR SOCIALISM!

  20. #1195
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    YOU GOTTA LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE, MAN!
    YOU CAN'T TRUST THE SYSTEM, MAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!

    (it never gets old https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAYL5H46QnQ )

  21. #1196
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by Tocky View Post
    What were y'all saying about how a country star would have to die before the red states took this seriously?

    https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/...us-61-n1171666
    YEEEE HAWWWW!...it's time to celebrate death with a monkey dance!...


    Last edited by Vae; 29th Mar 2020 at 19:15. Reason: Replaced monkey gif with something less annoying

  22. #1197
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Straw-man is not sufficient to describe the inappropriateness of that straw-man, Vae.

  23. #1198
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Tocky really shouldn't have used someones death in order to make a disparaging political point...and the monkey reflects that level of thinking.

  24. #1199
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Sigh.

  25. #1200
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    Suing China for negligence would be a bit rich coming from countries whose own response was far more negligent.
    I think there's two main factors going on here. First, it can be argued that China's initial lack of transparency and communication negatively impacted other countries ability to respond in a more diligent and immediate manner, which resulted in more death and suffering. This would mitigate the responsibility of the nations which have been impacted.

    Second, is the mishandling of the virus itself, and failing to contain it by using appropriate measures.

    That is why there will be a legitimate claim against China from the affected nations.

    Now collecting on this is another matter, considering the geopolitical situation.
    Last edited by Vae; 29th Mar 2020 at 20:29.

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