TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile
Page 53 of 122 FirstFirst ... 381318232833384348495051525354555657586368737883889398103 ... LastLast
Results 1,301 to 1,325 of 3027

Thread: ☣ Coronavirus ☣

  1. #1301
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    +328 deaths in Lombardy

    LESS ICU than yesterday in Lombardy (1330->1324)
    Hospitalized stable (+68 over 12.000)
    @Home almost stable

  2. #1302
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    I stopped believing any data coming out of China weeks ago. Any statistical model should just exclude them.
    China data is fairly decent (with not much room for data fudging). Their situation, however was too chaotic for the data to be particularly useful. Especially considering cultural differences and governments grip on things (not in the sense of fudging with data, but more on how they dealt with containment - both people and government). It just won't apply to crisis elsewhere (except S.Korea that has some similarities in key aspects - and there has been mention of differences in virus strand which i have mostly forgotten [only one of the strands distinguished in China got any spread in Korea if memory serves]).

    US data is unusable for different reasons. To give an example: New York, as stated in various places, mostly does no testing outside hospitalization. Not surprisingly - their cumulative (*) positives/tests is over 0.35. That is worse than Italy in its worst day. Where the NY's last day (30th) has a positive rate of 0.49 (!!). High positive rate is not only a NY thing - New Jersey is pretty high too. And Arizona is a lot worse than anything else. Etc. Consequently - the yet to be observed death rate is going to suck accordingly (if you need hospitalization then your case won't be one of the numerous mild ones - duh).

    Germany, on the other hand, appears to be looking down from its peak (active case count is pretty much on a standstill too). Their testing stat collection is a mess, but the latest round-call placed it at ~0.07 positives per test - cumulatively (*).

    *) Ie. all the tests that have ever been performed in this crisis.
    Last edited by zombe; 31st Mar 2020 at 15:24. Reason: just noticed that 'mostly' was missing.

  3. #1303
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    If there's one excuse that blows my mind everytime I see it, it's the whole "Don't panic sheeple! This isn't spreading! The only reason why we're seeing more cases is because we're testing more!"

    ...what are you, fucking stupid or something? That's literally them saying that the only reason we know it's as bad as it is is because we're now finding out just how bad it is, so it's really not as bad as it looks.

  4. #1304
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Netherlands

    Coronavirus

    We just passed the 1000 deaths mark since yesterday. Apparently were in third place when it comes to number of deaths relative to the population count, third only to Italy and Spain. were in danger of running short on IC beds, qualified medical staff and respiratory equipment. Normal medical procedures are being postponed, like chemotherapy and such, pretty bad for those people involved...

    Im getting my groceries delivered to my house for the third week in a row now, I had to check often before a delivery slot became free, supermarkets are struggling to meet demand on home deliveries. There are enough products but not enough trucks and personnel. Tomorrow I will have to go out to the pharmacist for my meds, but other than that I batten down the hatches and hunker down in my home. At my company its been decided were working from home until at least the end of april. Good call I think. Productivity for me is about on par with working at the office.

    Turns out Im very much a loner who can handle this relatively fine. Many others here have it much worse.

  5. #1305
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Quote Originally Posted by Harvester View Post
    At my company it’s been decided we’re working from home until at least the end of april. Good call I think. Productivity for me is about on par with working at the office.
    Mine decided this a couple of weeks ago already, and as I work 2 to 3 days a week from home anyway I was already set up for this. The being stuck without interaction is an interesting one if you're not living with anyone I guess, but you can always come and vent on TTLG!

  6. #1306
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Quote Originally Posted by zombe View Post
    China data is fairly decent (with not much room for data fudging). Their situation, however was too chaotic for the data to be particularly useful. Especially considering cultural differences and governments grip on things (not in the sense of fudging with data, but more on how they dealt with containment - both people and government). It just won't apply to crisis elsewhere (except S.Korea that has some similarities in key aspects - and there has been mention of differences in virus strand which i have mostly forgotten [only one of the strands distinguished in China got any spread in Korea if memory serves]).

    US data is unusable for different reasons. To give an example: New York, as stated in various places, does no testing outside hospitalization. Not surprisingly - their cumulative (*) positives/tests is over 0.35. That is worse than Italy in its worst day. Where the NY's last day (30th) has a positive rate of 0.49 (!!). High positive rate is not only a NY thing - New Jersey is pretty high too. And Arizona is a lot worse than anything else. Etc. Consequently - the yet to be observed death rate is going to suck accordingly (if you need hospitalization then your case won't be one of the numerous mild ones - duh).

    Germany, on the other hand, appears to be looking down from its peak (active case count is pretty much on a standstill too). Their testing stat collection is a mess, but the latest round-call placed it at ~0.07 positives per test - cumulatively (*).

    *) Ie. all the tests that have ever been performed in this crisis.
    What information could you glean from the rate of positives/tests? That's going to vary everywhere, even from one primary care physician to the next, because we don't all follow the same protocol in deciding who gets tested. For example, my doctor's office is asking us to call them first if we have any symptoms, and if we don't require medical attention, assume a positive and self-quarantine at home. The idea is to avoid risking others JUST to get a test, in cases where the result wouldn't change the recommended course of action. Depending on your risk factors, they may check in with you daily or let you ride it out unless your symptoms get worse. But we also have people skipping or ignoring their PCPs and showing up at hospital emergency rooms with mild early symptoms, demanding to be tested. Likewise, people are showing up at drive-through testing sites with no symptoms and no connections to confirmed cases, I guess hoping to get a little peace of mind, though testing negative one day doesn't mean you won't get it the next, so I don't know what testing the non-sick accomplishes for anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    If there's one excuse that blows my mind everytime I see it, it's the whole "Don't panic sheeple! This isn't spreading! The only reason why we're seeing more cases is because we're testing more!"

    ...what are you, fucking stupid or something? That's literally them saying that the only reason we know it's as bad as it is is because we're now finding out just how bad it is, so it's really not as bad as it looks.
    Yeah, that's a bizarre one. Maybe what they would like to believe is that this virus is widespread already, and that most people who've been exposed just aren't having any significant symptoms. That would go along with their argument that the death rates among reported cases are massively exaggerated compared to a true death rate that's probably no worse than seasonal flu. That hypothesis was harder to reject a few weeks ago, but I'm surprised anybody would still cling to that hope now.

  7. #1307
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    That hypothesis was harder to reject a few weeks ago, but I'm surprised anybody would still cling to that hope now.
    There are still plenty of people holding on to the notion that this is no worse than the flu, and it's being played up by media for political reasons. Though now that we're arresting and fining pastors for holding services with dozens and hundreds of people, a lot of the hardline don't-really-understand-the-Constitutionalists are now getting in on the action, saying this is being played up so The Government can take away our freedoms.

    See, the problem with America these days is that very few people seem to understand the fine line that lies between standing up for your rights and freedoms, and being a bunch of paranoid selfish cunts anymore.

  8. #1308
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    There are still plenty of people holding on to the notion that this is no worse than the flu, and it's being played up by media for political reasons.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/coro...h-rates-2020-3

  9. #1309
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night

  10. #1310
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Are these people seriously stupid or acting/pretending ONLY for political reason?

  11. #1311
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Anecdotally, I also know several people who kept saying it's just another flu, but I noticed their opinion started to shift when the grim numbers and images started coming in from Italy and then Spain. People seemed to find it very easy to dismiss when it was primarily affecting China. One guy I work with continued to go on about how Italy was different because of whatever, and it wouldn't happen here. And then NYC blew up. We haven't had to listen to his shit for the last week because he stopped coming into work.

    But I know from online forums I visit that there's a lot of people still in the denial stage. Also, I still see small groups of people congregating and not keeping safe distance. I see it happening too frequently at work despite multiple warnings. It's making me nervous.

    And here's another case of extreme callous. I'm going to call this a religion-induced suicide, for lack of a better term. Six rabbis dead in a NJ Orthodox community who won't stop congregating:

    https://www.app.com/story/news/healt...rs/5086904002/

  12. #1312
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    Are these people seriously stupid or acting/pretending ONLY for political reason?
    Most of them are only pretending, but they know their constituency, and they know what sells.

  13. #1313
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Anecdotally, I also know several people who kept saying it's just another flu
    It's "just another flu" with:
    *no vaccine
    *no good therapies for the inflammation physiologically destroying your lungs
    *causing a primary interstitial pneumonia ( https://www.merckmanuals.com/profess...tial-pneumonia )
    *keeping you 2-3 weeks in ICU ward - with dozen of other people in the same hellish condition, such a lovecraftian scene - to recover from the brink of death

  14. #1314
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    There are a lot of ridiculous religious congregations still going on. It's a different way of thinking and sadly is hard to change.

  15. #1315
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    For a lot of people who get it, it is just another flu. A goodly chunk of people who contract coronavirus will experience nothing more than a bad cough, achy joints, and generally feel like shit for a couple of weeks. They'll recover on their own, and feel no worse for wear. Not every case blossoms into pneumonia or ARDS.

    What makes coronavirus so much more threatening is it's tendency to get a lot worse for a wider range of people. 20% of those who contract it will end up in the hospital, as opposed to the ~1% of people who catch the flu. That we have no vaccine for it, and that no one has a natural immunity against it due to exposure to previous strains makes that 20% a fairly hard number. Any nation that lets it run loose will end up being fucked by it.

  16. #1316
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    This week the Netherlands will start treating patients with blood-transfusions. Last week recovered patients were asked to start donating blood. Hunderds of recovered patients have reacted and agreed. The idea is that the blood (or actually the blood plasma) of the recovered patients contains antibodies against covid-19. When you give patients that are ill plasma-transfusions from recovered people, they will also receive a number of antibodies. These antibodies can help the patients in their fight against covid-19.

    It's not a real cure, but it can help. Trials are starting this week. A transfusion is only giving a patient a limited number of antibodies. The patient will not suddenly start producing antibodies by himself. The antibodies will not be valid forever. The "half-life" time of the antibodies is something like a month. So a month after a transfusion you'll have only half the antibodies that you had right when you got the transfusion. Blood-transfusions can also be given as precaution. E.g. you can treat all care-workers that are in daily contact with patients, but who have not fallen ill yet.

    I think this is good news. Supposedly it's not easy to get good blood (plasma). New donors have to be healthy enough so they can give a (decent) amount of blood. And they should not be carriers of any other illnesses. Normal regular blood-donors are tested for these illnesses. But there are probably not enough regular blood donors who have already contracted covid-19 and have recovered already. And it takes time to approve new donors.

    This is a good thing. It might be pricey. And in the early weeks we might not have enough plasma with antibodies. But in the long run, this might be an excellent method to control the impact of covid-19 on people who get ill. This might keep them alive until they start to produce antibodies of their own.


    The bad thing ?
    If this treatment is indeed successful, but not available for everyone, you know who will get it. Rich people. The 1%. People in rich countries. If this treatment can guarantee that you won't die, even if you get heavy covid-19 pneumonia, people will be willing to take more risks. Politicians will be less scared to push economy over people's health. It's simple: rich people want to push everybody back to work. Profits have to be made, targets have to be met, stock-prices have to go up, bonuses have to be paid. If you, or your parents or kids, or your rich buddies get ill, you just buy all the plasma and antibodies to recover. Meanwhile, the poor and others who have no access to the antibodies, can go and die. It's a risk they are willing to take .....
    Last edited by Gryzemuis; 31st Mar 2020 at 19:19.

  17. #1317
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    For a lot of people who get it, it is just another flu. A goodly chunk of people who contract coronavirus will experience nothing more than a bad cough, achy joints, and generally feel like shit for a couple of weeks. They'll recover on their own, and feel no worse for wear. Not every case blossoms into pneumonia or ARDS.
    You forget one thing: still being infectious for 2 weeks after the symptoms remission.

    20% of those who contract it will end up in the hospital, as opposed to the ~1% of people who catch the flu.
    Because it's a primary pneumonia contrary to the seasonal flu-SLOWLY-induced one.
    It can strike directly to the lungs, it doesn't need to "evolve" or being helped by other pathogens to do that.
    Last edited by lowenz; 31st Mar 2020 at 19:27.

  18. #1318
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    The bad thing ?
    The bad thing - for the rich too - is that approach can cure the infection, not the abnormal reaction of the body that gives you the deadly part of the pneumonia.

  19. #1319
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    The bad thing - for the rich too - is that approach can cure the infection, not the abnormal reaction of the body that gives you the deadly part of the pneumonia.
    Sure. Once the body starts doing that abnormal reaction.
    But if you get tested at the first sign of symptoms, and you get a transfusion with antibodies before the illness gets worse (to your lungs), you will probably recover fine. And we know that the rich and famous (and politicians) have access to tests as much as they want. So for sure they will have access to plasma. And if even plasma is not 100% effective to recover, then the rich and famous can buy plasma and get a monthly dose of antibodies as precaution.

    My point: if there is a cure, or a way to prevent you from getting ill, even if this treatment is very expensive or very hard to get, this will be a factor for some people (captains of industry, general arseholes, republicans, and other fascists) to push people out of quarantine before the danger is gone. Mark my words. When this treatment/prevention turns out to be effective, there will be much louder voices to push people back to work. And if blood plasma availability is limited, this will cost a lot of extra lives. I'm sorry to be so negative, but this crisis is making people show their true colors.

  20. #1320
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    As expected (due to the encouraging results of the clinical trials), the FDA Approves Hydroxychloroquine and Chloroquine for Emergency Use for COVID-19

    Therapeutics

    On March 28, 2020, FDA issued an EUA to allow hydroxychloroquine sulfate and chloroquine phosphate products donated to the Strategic National Stockpile (SNS) to be distributed and used for certain hospitalized patients with COVID-19. These drugs will be distributed from the SNS to states for doctors to prescribe to adolescent and adult patients hospitalized with COVID-19, as appropriate, when a clinical trial is not available or feasible. The EUA requires that fact sheets that provide important information about using chloroquine phosphate and hydroxychloroquine sulfate in treating COVID-19 be made available to health care providers and patients, including the known risks and drug interactions. The SNS, managed by ASPR, will work with the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to ship donated doses to states.
    France officially sanctions chloroquine, as well...


  21. #1321
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Praise be to Trump.

  22. #1322
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    My point: if there is a cure, or a way to prevent you from getting ill, even if this treatment is very expensive or very hard to get, this will be a factor for some people (captains of industry, general arseholes, republicans, and other fascists) to push people out of quarantine before the danger is gone. Mark my words. When this treatment/prevention turns out to be effective, there will be much louder voices to push people back to work. And if blood plasma availability is limited, this will cost a lot of extra lives. I'm sorry to be so negative, but this crisis is making people show their true colors.
    "Why contain it? Let it spill over into the schools and churches, let the bodies pile up in the streets. In the end, they'll beg us to save them."

  23. #1323
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    As expected (due to the encouraging results of the clinical trials), the FDA Approves Hydroxychloroquine and Chloroquine for Emergency Use for COVID-19



    France officially sanctions chloroquine, as well...

    As a prophylaxis form trials show a good promise.

  24. #1324
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    "Why contain it? Let it spill over into the schools and churches, let the bodies pile up in the streets. In the end, they'll beg us to save them."
    I'm already going around shouting "Laputan Machine"!

  25. #1325
    So remember how most people here thought I was completely wrong to object to tech censorship and it was OK because we were REALLY only stopping people who hate?

    Turns out Google Censoring COVID has the unintended consequence of giving Trump a monopoly over COVID information


    https://www.protocol.com/google-coro...-ban-democrats

Page 53 of 122 FirstFirst ... 381318232833384348495051525354555657586368737883889398103 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •