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Thread: ☣ Coronavirus ☣

  1. #1426
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    I'm also surprised that Italy is still leading the death count. The daily number of new cases in Italy remains stubbornly high.
    Now the "young" people too are dying CAUSE of the quarantine (relatives of the infected elders)

    Lombardy today:

    MORE deaths (+297) since yesterday......and less more ICU (+26).

  2. #1427
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Over here in Aus, despite backpackers flouting the rules and gathering in large groups (even after the police showed up and told them to disperse) + other idiots not taking this seriously, we're sitting on:

    Location - Confirmed cases

    Australian Capital Territory: 96

    New South Wales: 2,637

    Northern Territory: 27

    Queensland: 921

    South Australia: 411

    Tasmania: 85

    Victoria: 1,158

    Western Australia: 460

    Total - 5,795
    Deaths - 39

    So over here at least, the majority are doing the right thing and staying indoors. Until the minority does the right thing, then the numbers will keep going up. The rate of increase over here appears to be going against the worldwide trend for now.

  3. #1428
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Lockdown... if only
    I was just looking with some wonder at the declining daily case count in Australia. And Austria too. Whatever you're doing, it's working.

    I'm curious to know just how extensive the shutdown is in Australia. Over here, even the states that have issued stay-at-home orders aren't really shut down. In my state, restaurants, bars, and most retailers are closed. Other businesses are open. People are working from home if & when they can, but for work that can only be done in the office, on site, or in plant, we go to work. I'd say commuter traffic is around half of normal. And now that springtime is here, outdoor recreation places like parks are getting crowded and some people are blowing off social distancing.

  4. #1429
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    I was just looking with some wonder at the declining daily case count in Australia. And Austria too. Whatever you're doing, it's working.

    I'm curious to know just how extensive the shutdown is in Australia. Over here, even the states that have issued stay-at-home orders aren't really shut down. In my state, restaurants, bars, and most retailers are closed. Other businesses are open. People are working from home if & when they can, but for work that can only be done in the office, on site, or in plant, we go to work. I'd say commuter traffic is around half of normal. And now that springtime is here, outdoor recreation places like parks are getting crowded and some people are blowing off social distancing.
    Open:

    * Supermarkets
    * Banks
    * Petrol stations
    * Pharmacies
    * Convenience stores
    * Freight and logistics
    * Food delivery
    * Bottle shops (we love our alcohol over here)

    Partially open:

    * Fast Food businesses and Restaurants - Take away only. No more than 2 customers allowed inside, and only for picking up their orders. The vast majority of fast food outlets (eg McDonalds, KFC etc) have gone drive through only.

    Everything else:

    Closed, with all workers sacked or on an extended hiatus for the foreseeable future. All schools and universities are closed, though all of the higher level education related places (uni's, TAFE etc) have gone 100% online only. Nothing on campus.

    This put a bit over a million people out of work, and straight onto government benefits. Our government, which I'm normally really negative about, has been excellent about it all. The week that all the businesses were closed they setup a quick fast way (via the internet) for all affected people to get onto benefits quickly. They put out a one off stimulus payment of $750 to everyone on benefits, with another set for 2 months time. They've also doubled the usual government benefits payment from $500 - $600 to $1100. All holidaying citizens from elsewhere were ordered to leave, and were sent home a few weeks ago. No flights are coming or leaving the country for the time being, except in rare cases of returning citizens. All people that do return are on a mandatory 2 week quarantine, where they are put in a hotel (all expenses paid) and not allowed to leave until the 2 weeks are up. Police outside enforcing it.

    There are strict rules in place, to only go outside:

    * For exercise
    * Food / groceries
    * For study / education
    * For work
    * To see a doctor

    If your outside for any reason other than that, then you get a on the spot fine of $1700. Those gathering in groups have been getting those. Your not allowed even to go visit family who live elsewhere.

    Somehow EB games stores are still open, with a 2 customer limit. All stores that are still open require customers to put on hand sanitizer before they go in. Most places are far lighter in people numbers. The cities are like something out of 28 days later (where the guy wakes up in the hospital alone, goes out into the city and it's completely empty) at night. Barely anyone out at all. Not many cars on the road either. Much more about in the day. The majority of people that are outside, stick to the social distancing rules and stay 1.5 meters away from each other. Of course you get some idiots who don't follow this, but the vast majority are.

    Public transport is almost completely dead. It's seen over here, that public transport is one of the most likely places you would get the virus, so you often see trains and buses with no'one on them at all. Very few people still use it.

    One difference here, compared to many other countries, was that we banned travel from China and Iran very early on. And the government had it's best experts on it coming up with a plan all the way back in February (when the count of infected was at around 13 I think). In February, the prime minister called in all the leaders from all the states to have a clear plan set out for when things got worse. So when the numbers started to go up (especially in New South Wales after the ferry disaster), they went to the set out plan, and went from there.

    The governments response hasn't been perfect, as we lagged behind other countries in fully closing off our borders, and for moving to the higher stages of quarantine, but it seems to be effective for now.
    Last edited by icemann; 6th Apr 2020 at 13:41.

  5. #1430
    The levels of misinformation from all corners is insane. From Chinese bots, to 5G conspiracy theorists...to even mainstream outlets.





    The governments response hasn't been perfect, as we lagged behind other countries in fully closing off our borders, and for moving to the higher stages of quarantine, but it seems to be effective for now.
    According to the head of epidemiology at Rockefeller University, that's actually the correct response. You need enough of an initial infection in place or else a lockdown is useless.



  6. #1431
    Quote Originally Posted by catbarf View Post
    Why would you jump to assuming that it's feds, and not already-crazy people who are suddenly furloughed and having to wait in bread lines? Forums are a great source of PAI for tracking sentiment but a terrible platform for action; feds have better things to do than shitpost on Internet forums.
    It's a slang term. Both of those things fall under "fedposting": https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...term=Fedposter

    Both are also actually thing. Somewhere out there floating around (Google isn't helpful anymore) there's some court documents revealing that law enforcement DOES post on internet forums trying to do incitement so they can score some easy arrests. That was basically the entire point of Chris Hansen's old TV show.

  7. #1432
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    HOLY SHIT, GUYS! FAKE NURSE IS A CRISIS ACTOR!

    What's their proof? Well, it's the fake news media, and these people can tell when something's been rehearsed! Comeon! It was quickly questioned by several people! I mean look at her Twitter feed! She does something kinda dumb! PROOF!

    ...Tony, please. For the of god, shut the fuck up.

  8. #1433
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    Problem is Covid-19 is NOT only interstitial pneumonia ("respiratory disease")
    It's kidney failure.
    It's vasculitis.
    It's vein thrombosis.

    And sometimes only a cold/laryngitis in the lucky ones.

    It's a lot of things. All potentially sneaky & deadly.
    And not so simple to dismiss when the symptoms are over (The fever has gone! I won!!11111)
    Cause the body simply "fails" in efficiently reacting to the infection. It's a systemic syndrome.

    So the doctor is not so scientifically correct.
    He's oversimplifying.

    NOT ONLY a respiratory disease, please.
    Do not minimize this thing when associated to our individual genetic expression.
    Last edited by lowenz; 6th Apr 2020 at 15:46.

  9. #1434
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Lockdown... if only
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    ...Lot's of stuff...
    Count yourself lucky, for now, and stay safe. A few other countries have seen a second wave that was worse than the first: Singapore, Qatar, Estonia.

    You may have heard this Winston Churchill quote before: "You can count on Americans to do the right thing - only after they've tried everything else." We're currently proving it true. It's like you can't teach anybody anything really important, because it's not a real problem until they experience it themselves.

    It wasn't enough to watch what happened in Hubei, then Lombardy, then Madrid, then New York, now New Jersey, Louisiana, Michigan, Florida, Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, and the whole of Europe basically. We STILL have people pushing back. Yesterday I listened to the Governor of Arkansas try to explain why he won't close businesses and issue a stay at home directive. There are three other states who won't do it either: N. Dakota, S. Dakota, and Nebraska. Georgia's Governor just re-opened the state's beaches over the weekend. He went so far as to force them open, invalidating the closures already put in place by local municipalities. There's still 12 states allowing religious gatherings at churches. Wisconsin is still planning to hold an in-person primary election tomorrow. Around here, we're having problems getting hikers off of the Appalachian Trail, and problems keeping parks from getting overcrowded. My family and friends who live in rural areas (but close to major outbreaks) say nobody is wearing masks or gloves or practicing social distancing when they go to shop. New Jersey cops had to break up multiple gatherings over the weekend. I just don't get it.

    It seems like every state & municipality has to learn a Covid-19 lesson on their own before getting serious.
    Last edited by heywood; 6th Apr 2020 at 17:15.

  10. #1435
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    According to the head of epidemiology at Rockefeller University, that's actually the correct response. You need enough of an initial infection in place or else a lockdown is useless.
    Seriously, Tony, you should take Renzatic's advice and stop posting. You clearly don't have the capacity to determine what's good information and what's dangerous nonsense.

    FFS... "Coronavirus is just another flu, a vaccine wouldn't be effective, hospitals are really only overwhelmed for a day, the disease would just go away in 2 weeks if there was no social distancing and there would only be 10 000 deaths in the US..."

    Do you not think that if all the scientists agree on something and that if one dissenting voice appears and throws around wild claims without any proof, maybe there's a good reason why nobody is paying any attention to him?

  11. #1436
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    FFS... "Coronavirus is just another flu, a vaccine wouldn't be effective, hospitals are really only overwhelmed for a day, the disease would just go away in 2 weeks if there was no social distancing and there would only be 10 000 deaths in the US..."
    Covid-19 is a GIGANTIC systemic virus-triggered vasculitis that induces SOMETIMES an interstitial pneumonia that can kill you. 'cause you got NO space for the air in the lungs thanks to the inflammation process.
    But it can kill you without even touch the lungs. (kidney failure)

    Sometimes you got only the "virus" part with no particular inflammation explosion. And this is the "flu-like" version (nose / throat involvement)

    The "respiratory" part is literally accidental, due to the nature of the virus contagion dynamics and its tropism (tissue affinity). But the triggered response is system-wide.

    Hope that *physicians* and not "virologists" can say this LOUD & CLEAR.

    And only after that we can fight it.
    Last edited by lowenz; 6th Apr 2020 at 18:00.

  12. #1437
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Do you not think that if all the scientists agree on something and that if one dissenting voice appears and throws around wild claims without any proof, maybe there's a good reason why nobody is paying any attention to him?
    TOPICALLY RELEVANT MEME!


  13. #1438
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Well autopsies are autopsies.....it's NOT a "respiratory disease". That is only a small (and deadly) part of the problem.

  14. #1439
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    lowenz, please stop saying this. It's not true. The figures say it isn't true and all the anaesthetic and ITU doctors I'm in contact with, across Europe, including several in Italy, in Milan, Bologna and Genoa say it isn't true.

    Renz please. If this guy keeps parroting these lies I have to ask you ban him. Please. It's too much now. It's several times a page. TTLG is going to look like home of the conspiracy theorists.

    It's true that this is multi-system disease, but it IS the lungs that are the major issue. This causes a dreadful ARDS requiring prone ventilation and is so draining on this that European sedative stocks are running low. You don't get intubated, sedated and ventilated in ITU because you've got kidney failure.

    lowenz - I don't understand what your agenda is. Why are you pushing this so hard? Even if you really believe it, you don't need to post it again and again.

  15. #1440
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    In other news, Boris has been taken to ITU. Not ventilated yet, hopefully he won't need it.

    I'd never vote for the man, but I wish him a speedy recovery.

  16. #1441
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Boris Johnson has been moved to intensive care:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52192604

  17. #1442
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    Renz please. If this guy keeps parroting these lies I have to ask you ban him. Please. It's too much now. It's several times a page. TTLG is going to look like home of the conspiracy theorists.
    He's just one voice among many, so I doubt anyone will come in here thinking that we're yet another a nutso site, given the flak throw his way every time he posts.

    At the very least, he's good for showing contrast, serving as a cautionary tale of the dangers of reading too much into the obvious propaganda sites.

  18. #1443
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    lowenz, please stop saying this. It's not true. The figures say it isn't true and all the anaesthetic and ITU doctors I'm in contact with, across Europe, including several in Italy, in Milan, Bologna and Genoa say it isn't true.

    It's true that this is multi-system disease, but it IS the lungs that are the major issue. This causes a dreadful ARDS requiring prone ventilation and is so draining on this that European sedative stocks are running low. You don't get intubated, sedated and ventilated in ITU because you've got kidney failure.

    lowenz - I don't understand what your agenda is. Why are you pushing this so hard? Even if you really believe it, you don't need to post it again and again.
    ARDS is *ONE* aspect of the disease.
    The autopsies show the other aspects that you can't see if you focus on the respiratory part (to save the patient in ICU of course!)

    Because the virus triggers a multilayered deranged immune response, you don't get killed by the virus but by the failure of some organs where it finds affinity for (lungs and kidneys have very similar tissues)!
    Failure ultimately caused by your immune system.

    https://www.msdmanuals.com/home/lung...renal-syndrome

  19. #1444
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven


    https://www.cathlabdigest.com/conten...el-coronavirus

    Parma, Italy - March 12, 2020 -- Kidney involvement seems to be frequent in patients who have tested positive for coronavirus. Acute kidney injury might be a predictor of mortality in infected patients.

    ABSTRACT: Kidney involvement seems to be frequent in patients with Covid-19. Proteinuria (and/or blood in urine) often occurs at the beginning or during the infection, a few patients even develop acute kidney injury (AKI). This shows that Covid-19 also attacks the kidneys. Nephrologists from all countries are dedicated and committed to help these patients. Given the involvement of kidneys during coronavirus infection, patients should also be monitored after the disease.

  20. #1445
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    We can all quit worrying now. Kenneth Copeland's ass has spoken.


  21. #1446
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    A few other countries have seen a second wave that was worse than the first: ... Estonia.
    The data is quite noisy where many changes happened along the way (combining days to account for combining counting systems / more people seeking for testing / counting fuckups / counts being low enough for individual idiots to have noticeable effect at their random time / etc).

    In other words: not sure i would call it a second wave ... the first one has just prevailed. We never really had much of the exponential growth either (1.024 ^ 25 days ~= 1.8 ... ie. have not yet doubled the daily new case counts from the initial event). Still quite worrying (That initial super-spreader incident hurt us bad. We are way worse off than any of our neighbors - but it is relatively under control so far and well below our medical capacity at least. I am still super worried as we have infections in the family).

    We have two hot-spots: one is an island (Very bad situation there - over 1.3% of everyone there is infected. That island alone counts for 38% of all cases in the country) the other is our capitol city (If that decides to explode then we are truly fucked).

  22. #1447
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    you don't get killed by the virus but by the failure of some organs where it finds affinity
    Please list some viruses that do kill you then.

    Just one will do.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post

    ABSTRACT: Kidney involvement seems to be frequent in patients with Covid-19. Proteinuria (and/or blood in urine) often occurs at the beginning or during the infection, a few patients even develop acute kidney injury (AKI).[/I]
    Dude, your own extract contradicts you.

  23. #1448
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    You know that US captain who sacrificed his career to save the lives of his sailors and received a hero's send-off by his men and who tested positive to the virus himself?

    Well, the current Acting Navy Secretary saw fit to go and lecture the men for sticking up for their captain:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/06/p...dly/index.html

    Acting Secretary of the Navy Thomas Modly blasted the now-ousted commander of the USS Theodore Roosevelt as "stupid" in an address to the ship's crew Monday morning, in remarks obtained by CNN.

    Modly told the crew that their former commander, Capt. Brett Crozier, was either "too naive or too stupid" to be in command or that he intentionally leaked to the media a memo in which he warned about coronavirus spreading aboard the aircraft carrier and urged action to save his sailors.

    The acting secretary also accused Crozier of committing a "betrayal" and creating a "big controversy" in Washington by disseminating the warning so widely among Navy officials.

    "It was a betrayal. And I can tell you one other thing: because he did that he put it in the public's forum and it is now a big controversy in Washington, DC," Modly said, according to a transcript of remarks Modly made to the crew, copies of which have been provided to CNN by multiple Navy officials.

    Crozier had written to Navy leadership flagging his concerns about the Roosevelt's crew of more than 4,000, alerting them to the challenges of trying to contain the disease aboard the ship and urgently requesting that sailors be allowed to quarantine on land.

    "We are not at war. Sailors do not need to die. If we do not act now, we are failing to properly take care of our most trusted asset: our Sailors," Crozier wrote in a memo that three US defense officials confirmed to CNN.

    As of Monday, 173 of the ship's crew have tested positive for coronavirus and 61% of the crew have been tested, according to a Navy official. Approximately 2,000 have been evacuated from the ship and moved ashore to Guam.

    The Navy had set a goal of moving 2,700 sailors ashore by Friday evening.
    [...]
    Jim Wright, a retired US Navy Chief Warrant Officer, had quite a few choice words about the whole affair. Here's just a taste:

    https://twitter.com/Stonekettle/stat...20127814344705

    The Acting Secretary of the Navy, Thomas Modly -- whose sum total qualification for his job was that he was once a junior helicopter pilot who became an investment banker and Trump campaign donor -- visited the USS Theodore Roosevelt this morning and chasitized the crew.

    Modly called USS Theodore Roosevelt's former captain "too stupid or too naive to be a commanding officer of a ship like this."

    I spent most of my adult life in a Navy uniform, I saw the military shit on by civilian leaders over and over, but I've seen anything like this.

    The Navy Secretary told the crew of a stricken warship their Commanding Officer -- and you'd have to understand the DECADES of work, experience, education, and determination it takes to become the Commanding Officer of a US Navy Aircraft Carrier -- was stupid and naive.

    Modly literally made that announcement over the ship's 1MC (the general announcing system) to the very crew who Crozier had sacrificed his career for.

    I can't imagine the staggering arrogance it takes to do something like this.

    Modly went on to say Captain Crozier had somehow betrayed not only the Trump Administration, and Modly personally, but also them, the crew.

    Can you imagine saying THAT to the crew of a warship whose Captain sacrificed his career for their lives?

    This is the epitome of the Trump Administration, of modern Republicanism, right here. The staggering arrogance by unqualified fools.
    [...]

  24. #1449
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    I've no idea who this Dr Drew is, but apparently he has been abusing copyright law to try to erase a supercut of his comments about the virus, so I'm morally obligated to share the video:


  25. #1450
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Quote Originally Posted by Tocky View Post
    We can all quit worrying now. Kenneth Copeland's ass has spoken.
    His compound is right up the road from where I grew up, and I went to highschool with those people. There were interesting (to me) "theology debates" we used to have, Traditionalists vs. Prosperity Theology. You could probably guess which side I was on at the time. I wouldn't say they were practically worth it since PT adherents weren't actually trying to get to the truth of anything and actual theology was the last thing being debated. The only good that came out of it was for me personally, it gave me a early start in sharpening my argument and philosophy chops, which was useful for going into philosophy and law later.

    It taught me that the most obvious points can sometimes be the hardest things to argue, since people can be blind to them or not understand what's really at the root of them, things as simple as human dignity and decency. I guess, since we're probably going through a global Epistemic Realignment right now at least on par with WWII and the Postwar period, I mean where countries come out of this with a much different outlook on the world, it's a good time to be reflecting on the core values and truths.

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