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Thread: ☣ Coronavirus ☣

  1. #1901
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    there are this little things call BILLS, and failure to pay them means I am fucking homeless ...... that there is far scarier and deadlier than germs that have killed 176,400 people out of 7.8 BILLION.......
    That's a problem with how the USA is structured as a society. It's not an excuse for threatening the lives of others.

    And it's not an excuse for posting vacuous memes or trolling this forum. If you want to thump your chest about the Constitution, START YOUR OWN THREAD. This thread is about a GLOBAL situation and FYI the USA is not the globe.

  2. #1902
    BANNED
    Registered: Nov 2016
    Location: Trollinus Maximus
    I am good, you guys take care.

  3. #1903
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Wait, is jkcerda serious?

  4. #1904
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    No one knows...

  5. #1905
    It's OK. Usually when people say something like "That's it, I'm out" or "It's been fun" they usually come back anyway.

  6. #1906
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
    you don't get to shit on the constitution simply because you don't know who is sick and who is not.
    This attitude is why so many people are dead in the US. No.1 reason.

  7. #1907
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    As a lawyer, my idea of shitting on the constitution is making big claims about what it says and means without having seriously read or understood it, much less the decades of Supreme Court case law that actually give meanings to the text. In fact you can suspend certain liberties for periods of time if necessary to protect public health, and to protect life in particular. I don't think there's much debate that the restrictions are necessary.

    We do have the principle of LRA, "least restrictive alternative", in civil rights jurisprudence, which means if there are multiple ways to meet the objective, the gov't must use the option least restrictive on the given right. If these people really want to go after these restrictions in the right way, they'd come up with a less restrictive alternative that's sufficient to protect people's lives according to experts, or some legit process, and not just some random official's opinion. If they can't do that, then it's kind of an admission that the current restrictions are necessary and the LRA.

  8. #1908
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    The word is hydroxychloroquine:



    https://apnews.com/a5077c7227b8eb8b0dc23423c0bbe2b2

    A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.

    The nationwide study was not a rigorous experiment. But with 368 patients, it’s the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for COVID-19, which has killed more than 171,000 people as of Tuesday.

    The study was posted on an online site for researchers and has not been reviewed by other scientists. Grants from the National Institutes of Health and the University of Virginia paid for the work.

    Researchers analyzed medical records of 368 male veterans hospitalized with confirmed coronavirus infection at Veterans Health Administration medical centers who died or were discharged by April 11.

    About 28% who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11% of those getting routine care alone. About 22% of those getting the drug plus azithromycin died too, but the difference between that group and usual care was not considered large enough to rule out other factors that could have affected survival.

    Hydroxychloroquine made no difference in the need for a breathing machine, either.

    Researchers did not track side effects, but noted a hint that hydroxychloroquine might have damaged other organs. The drug has long been known to have potentially serious side effects, including altering the heartbeat in a way that could lead to sudden death.

    Earlier this month, scientists in Brazil stopped part of a study testing chloroquine, an older drug similar to hydroxychloroquine, after heart rhythm problems developed in one-quarter of people given the higher of two doses being tested.

    On Tuesday, NIH issued new treatment guidelines from a panel of experts, saying there was not enough evidence to recommend for or against chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19. But it also advised against using hydroxychloroquine with azithromycin because of the potential side effects.

    Many doctors have been leery of the drug.

    At the University of Wisconsin, Madison, “I think we’re all rather underwhelmed” at what’s been seen among the few patients there who’ve tried it, said Dr. Nasia Safdar, medical director of infection control and prevention.

    Patients asked about it soon after Trump started promoting its use, “but now I think that people have realized we don’t know if it works or not” and needs more study, said Safdar, who had no role in the VA analysis.

    The NIH and others have more rigorous tests underway.
    Last edited by Starker; 22nd Apr 2020 at 20:11.

  9. #1909
    Previously Important
    Registered: Nov 1999
    Location: Caer Weasel, Uelekevu

    re: Sean Fuckin Hannity

    THIS IS NOT THE ONION

    “Greater exposure to Hannity relative to Tucker Carlson Tonight leads to a greater number of COVID-19 cases and deaths. A one-standard deviation increase in relative viewership of Hannity relative to Carlson is associated with approximately 30 percent more COVID-19 cases on March 14, and 21 percent more COVID-19 deaths on March 28."

    https://bfi.uchicago.edu/working-paper/2020-44/

  10. #1910
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Forest
    It is my understanding that hydroxy chloroquine is being given to “mostly” terminal patients. It is a last ditch effort. If it is proven to be ineffective, which is quiet possible, then stop using it. If it is only 5% effective for patients that will die anyway, then use it.

    Keep in mind that one cannot prove a negative. How many that have died that did not get hydroxy chloroquine would have lived? How many of those that lived that got hydroxy chloroquine would have anyway?

  11. #1911
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Quote Originally Posted by bjack View Post
    Keep in mind that one cannot prove a negative.
    I'm not saying I disagree with everything else you're saying, but this is patently untrue if you have even a fleeting understanding of science and mathematics.

  12. #1912
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Forest
    Bad choice of words on my part Sulphur. However, One can show a very likely causation, but the antithesis (albeit unlikely) could be possibly true. One cannot absolutely prove a negative in all cases. One can only show extreme possibility of likelihood.

    I’m talking about complex systems here, not math equations BTW. In math, you can prove a negative. In some simple systems you can “prove” a negative too. However, in a case such as this, one cannot prove that taking a drug or not taking a drug “fixed” anything. There is no control group, nor should there be due to the cruelty of doing such a Nazi thing. We are in compassionate “art” territory here. Magic potions in hopes they will work. There is no room for trials and controls groups.

    In other words, there is no true way to prove or disprove hydroxy chloroquine is effeective at this time. It is purely anecdotal and circumstantial

    Thanks for the response

  13. #1913
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    There is definite room to prove that hydroxychloroquine is a non-effective treatment within a very low margin of error, but obviously we'll need far more data and a proper set of controlled, systematic tests and systemic analysis before the conclusion as to its efficacy or lack thereof (or for any other targeted treatment) is pronounced, one way or the other. Control groups and systematic population sampling, like it or not, are the only ways to get reliable results for any treatment.

    I'm not saying we should force it, but if people would like to volunteer for clinical trials with the clear, unfettered knowledge that they'll have a 50-50 chance of getting an unproven drug that may or may not help mitigate the disease... well, I'd fucking salute them.*

    In the absence of a vaccine at this juncture, I'm more interested in treatments with potential like remdesivir, which was being looked into since before all this really took off. It has a body of research available to pick apart, so it was potentially promising back then, and still potentially promising right now.


    *Especially if it's hydroxychloroquine, and its ongoing complications like causing arrhythmia in some patients and apparently correlating to no impact or causing more deaths in at least one trial so far.
    Last edited by Sulphur; 22nd Apr 2020 at 15:01.

  14. #1914
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Forest
    What I am happy to see is the relaxing of rules to allow people on their death beds to try nearly anything. I have also heard of remdesivir and other promising drugs. There is another that is used for treatment of AIDS. I mean WTH, try them out. And yes I salute those that would go into a trial. If I get infected though, if I have not already been, I want the treament, not the placebo.

    As for a vaccine, this may be improbable. Who knows? Not WHO. Not the CDC, nor anyone else. We all hope it will be possible, but it just might be like the common cold or AIDS. Even “herd” immunity may be worthless if this virus mutates. We’ll see.

    Lastly, in my area the death rate is 0.03% I’m in Washington state. The epicenter of the US infection. Pierce county. Very few infections and not many deaths. Oh, and lot’s of people are flaunting the stay at home rules. I work in an “essential service” industry, so I have to go out or quit. My hours have been reduced to just 8, one day a week. Our loving masters are not providing gloves or masks anymore. They are so thankful for our service, yet refuse to provie the gear necessary to keep us safe. Nice... Oh well.

  15. #1915
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by bjack View Post
    Lastly, in my area the death rate is 0.03% I’m in Washington state. The epicenter of the US infection.
    I need to find that article again, but autopsies are showing us that this has been here in the states for slightly longer than we initially expected, and the spread model is now being adjusted to account for these new discoveries. It turns out the first two deaths are now believed to belong to a couple of people in Santa Clara, CA. who died of the virus at home two weeks earlier than the guy in Washington.

    edit: Here it is.

  16. #1916
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by bjack View Post
    It is my understanding that hydroxy chloroquine is being given to “mostly” terminal patients. It is a last ditch effort. If it is proven to be ineffective, which is quiet possible, then stop using it. If it is only 5% effective for patients that will die anyway, then use it.

    Keep in mind that one cannot prove a negative. How many that have died that did not get hydroxy chloroquine would have lived? How many of those that lived that got hydroxy chloroquine would have anyway?
    That's not the issue, though? The issue is that your president encourages people to take it "just in case" and his propaganda channel touts stories of people who "miraculously" recovered (and weren't anywhere near terminal).

    Of course, he doesn't have anything to lose -- if the drug had been found to have even a minor positive effect, he'd get to take all the credit and if the drug turns out to have an adverse effect, he was just spitballing.
    Last edited by Starker; 22nd Apr 2020 at 19:57.

  17. #1917
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Of course, he doesn't have anything to lose -- if the drug had been found to have even a minor effect, he'd get to take all the credit and if the drug turns out to have an adverse effect, he was just spitballing.
    It seems to me that Trump believes if the science isn't conforming to your hype, then it's better to just ignore the science.

    We'll probably be seeing a similar shakeup at the NIH soon too.

  18. #1918
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    I wasn't sure which thread to put this in, here or the Trump Dump. After inciting a back to work insurrection and promising to open America for business, Trump chides a Governor because he opened his state for business.


  19. #1919
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    It's amazing watching this whiplash of a political dog and pony show. Trump's been posting his usual LIBERATE bullshit, and Kemp? Kemp was up on the podium, saying we have to open the state NOW! The cure can't be worse than the disease! The usual spiel. All the Trump fans on Facebook have been mimicking them.

    ...then suddenly this.

    Now they're just posting up Trump Train gifs.

    Gotta give props to the guy, at least. It is the right call. We're one of the worst off states in the union, and it is too soon to open things back up. But, you know, some goddamn consistency would be nice.

  20. #1920
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    What a shit show that man is. It's pointless asking for consistency because that man does not care about the actual policy or spread of the disease or the economy or personal liberty or any of it. It's all power plays for him and displays of royal prerogative to stoke his NPD-addled mid-brain. He gets a quick dopaminergic rush from slamming a governor because he's the boss and he can decide when a state is ready or not. There's no plan or long term strategy to it. He acts on impulses that come to him in the moment, and I really think he can't get any larger perspective on anything happening more than 4 inches from the ground.

  21. #1921
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    You can always claim you were right if you take both sides of every issue. And the fact that the other side is pointing out that you were also wrong about everything doesn't matter much.

  22. #1922
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Noticed that the pop count of US is essentially exactly the same as Italy+Spain+Germany+France+UK combined. Since i already have the data - thought to look how they compare when combined. Ignoring a few small countries - thous 5 countries are by far the worst hit per pop countries in Europe.



    Left: the combined country, right US.
    blue = daily new cases, red = total cases.
    yellow = daily new deaths, green = total deaths.
    dark red = total tests (before the jolt on the left only Italy had testing data).

    Current endpoint (US/combined): ~1.01 pop, ~1.00 cases, ~1.87 daily cases, ~0.52 deaths, ~0.97 daily deaths, ~0.78 tests.

    Besides some time shifts and the NY-hump anomaly - they look quite similar. Biggest problem is that while NY new cases are dropping, the rest are - on average - rising by comparable amount. Resulting the constant influx on new cases where the combined country has been falling for some time. US deaths, due to time shift, have not had time to accumulate either. So far it has been less than 9/11 per day ... but i think it will get there and given US obsession with 9/11 - that will then get mentioned till your ears bleed.

  23. #1923
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Oh wait, ACE2 confirmed (As soon as we realized that the role of these proteins had been biochemically confirmed). And more: http://news.mit.edu/2020/researchers...-covid-19-0422

    Study finds specific cells in the lungs, nasal passages, and intestines that are more susceptible to infection.

    In their data, the researchers also saw a surprising phenomenon — expression of the ACE2 gene appeared to be correlated with activation of genes that are known to be turned on by interferon, a protein that the body produces in response to viral infection. To explore this further, the researchers performed new experiments in which they treated cells that line the airway with interferon, and they discovered that the treatment did indeed turn on the ACE2 gene.

    Interferon helps to fight off infection by interfering with viral replication and helping to activate immune cells. It also turns on a distinctive set of genes that help cells fight off infection. Previous studies have suggested that ACE2 plays a role in helping lung cells to tolerate damage, but this is the first time that ACE2 has been connected with the interferon response.

    The finding suggests that coronaviruses may have evolved to take advantage of host cells’ natural defenses, hijacking some proteins for their own use.

    Because interferon has so many beneficial effects against viral infection, it is sometimes used to treat infections such as hepatitis B and hepatitis C. The findings of the MIT team suggest that interferon’s potential role in fighting Covid-19 may be complex. On one hand, it can stimulate genes that fight off infection or help cells survive damage, but on the other hand, it may provide extra targets that help the virus infect more cells.

  24. #1924
    This is so fucking great. Newsweek found Hannity fans are more likely to die.

    https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus...-study-1499354

  25. #1925
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: uk
    I realise that you only come on here to post links to revelations so amazing that nobody here could possibly have seen them and you don't actually read the threads you're posting to but could you perhaps at least try a little bit?

    Just the current page perhaps?

    I know that 15 posts ago is a long time for you but it's not for the rest of us.

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