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Thread: ☣ Coronavirus ☣

  1. #2026
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2005
    Location: Not Kansas
    @lowenz: Yeah, it's real. And Tennessee isn't the first state to report an increase in people not-accidentally ingesting disinfectants that aren't meant to be ingested (OR injected). Truth is, we all saw it coming because there are too many stupid people in this country. *smh*

    https://www.wdrb.com/news/kentucky-p...5YzY0gt30PB34Q

    https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavi...9qrl0a4BQMLge0

  2. #2027

  3. #2028
    These briefings-come-Trump rallies are truly cringeworthy. Really awkward watching Trump try to get his chief medical people to lie about being misquoted and Coronavirus being with us in the Fall. Dr. Birx struggling with “creative tattooing” was a bit of comedy relief right out of an SNL skit. Also funny watching Trump throw Kemp under the bus.
    These doctors dance on the edge for all of us trying to get the truth out knowing if they enrage King Donald with a truth he doesn’t like, they’re gone and replaced by a Fox News personality.
    If anyone doubts Donald’s Narcissistic Personality Disorder, consider that he actually said, “Taking very special care of our ... seniors, other than me. Nobody wants to take care of me.”
    He didn’t create the virus but his inaction, chaos and confusion, denial and downplaying got more Americans killed than necessary... and he’s going to do it again in the Fall.
    Meanwhile ... the governors Republican and Democrat still don’t have enough goddamn test kits.

  4. #2029
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night

  5. #2030
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Netherlands
    Short update from the Netherlands: Here we have this thing called an 'intelligent lockdown'. No gatherings of more than 2 people in a public place unless part of the same family, bars/restaurants/cinemas are closed, so are barber shops and other businesses that revolve around physical contact, the football season and other sports events are cancelled, festivals season isn't going to happen this summer, dentists only do emergency procedures, everything who can works from home, no visits to people in homes for the elderly, mentally ill etc. Recently the rules are loosened a bit, daycare facilities and primary schools will reopen after the May holiday and high schools will reopen in June, the youth can go to their sport clubs but only recreational (no competitions against other clubs) etc. This has been made possible thanks to recent statistics of the amount of people dying of the virus, the number of IC beds in use and number of new COVID hospital admissions. These numbers gradually improve thanks to people being cautious and following the rules.

    People are hoping for more, they are dying to get a haircut, get a beer with their mates at a bar, go to the gym again, visit churches and mosques, see their loved ones at seniors' homes, etc. Also, many regular medical procedures were put on hold and you can't keep doing that for people with cancer or heart conditions and such. While I'm starting to figure out that I'm a huge loner who can do this social distancing thing pretty easily (it helps that my job is very well manageable from home), I certainly sympathize with all these things. We should also realize that people with dementia and mental handicaps do not understand why their loved ones aren't coming to visit anymore, this is really tragic in some cases. Also, let's not forget that for some people home is not a safe place when everyone in the family is stuck there 24-7. Some people are now jobless, relational tensions start to rise, and for some kids school was a safe haven that was suddenly taken away from them. Even some formerly stable families are losing it. Furthermore, bars, restaurants and local stores and businesses are in danger of going bankrupt. Supermarkets are doing fine but many mom and pop stores and even national retail chains are not.

    But we must remain responsible. We had a weekend with nice weather and we're starting to see that the parks and shopping areas and centers, and hardware stores and gardening centers and such, are becoming way too crowded again and people are not taking the 1.5 meter distance thing that seriously anymore. Now that the numbers start to improve people are becoming lax with the precautions. If this continues, the statistics will start taking a turn for the worse and people can kiss their hopes of new liberties goodbye for the foreseeable future. If people want to regain those liberties, they must restrain themselves and act responsibly within the liberties and restrictions we now have. It's for their own good but some people don't seem to understand or they just can't control themselves. I do sympathize with people's social needs but some people aren't thinking clearly and I find that pretty frustrating. As an introvert I'm having an easier time with this than many other people, but I too want everything to return to normal, but people acting irresponsibly will just delay that from happening while the body count rises...

  6. #2031
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.

  7. #2032
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    So taking the above, and adding in this...



    Apparently Trump supporters aren't too swooft with the maffs.

  8. #2033
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    After you've solved (well, contained/reduced) the inflammation altering the blood vessel behaviour.
    Otherwise there's no use, you keep pushing air in the lungs but there's simply no space for the O2/CO2 exchange (the interstitial pneumonia is due to multiple factors, ONE being the hyperemia+vessel expansion not only the endothelial direct damage related to the virus replication)

    In NY there's a 90% of deaths among the ICU patients.....it's simply abysmal.

    If you can avoid the inflammation (->Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation) the pneumonia (=the part of the pneumonia-like state not strictly related to the virus) maybe can be avoided too.
    But the timings are really tighten up!
    I'd relay this information to my ICU colleagues, but I've never really liked being laughed out of the coffee room.

    Are you making phone calls to all the Italian hospitals?

  9. #2034
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    I'd relay this information to my ICU colleagues, but I've never really liked being laughed out of the coffee room.

    Are you making phone calls to all the Italian hospitals?
    Over 30 autopsies in our "main" Covid-19 dedicated hospital in Milan (Luigi Sacco) they found 30 Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation cases.
    30/30
    Same thing in Bergamo.

    (but you don't understand italian, right? This is the head of Cardiology division in Sacco hospital - not "lowenz" on TTLG - but he shares the same thoughts of physicians in Bergamo - and Bergamo, Brescia and now Milano are the most hit provinces in Italy so MAYBE we can say something about despite your fears to be laughed out )

    )

    The interstitial pneumonia is the last stage of the disease, better to AVOID the progression to this stage than to treat it in ICU

  10. #2035
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    And maybe google-translate this

    https://www.corriere.it/salute/neuro...668b38e0.shtml

    Or read the original: https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...oung-patients/

    Young and middle-aged people, barely sick with covid-19, are dying of strokes

    "barely" in my book is not compatible with the hypoxia. But compatible with the thrombosis.

  11. #2036
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...iden-vp-177791

    In Lansing, you cannot find anyone, Republican or Democrat, on the record or off, who does not admire the skills of the state’s 49th governor. Moreover, just about everyone likes her. She is genuine, secure, quick to give a hug or share a dirty joke.

    Her strong leadership is going to save lives. I shudder to think about what's going to happen in red states like Oklahoma or Georgia that insist on opening things before they're ready.


    But we must remain responsible. We had a weekend with nice weather and we're starting to see that the parks and shopping areas and centers, and hardware stores and gardening centers and such, are becoming way too crowded again and people are not taking the 1.5 meter distance thing that seriously anymore. Now that the numbers start to improve people are becoming lax with the precautions. If this continues, the statistics will start taking a turn for the worse and people can kiss their hopes of new liberties goodbye for the foreseeable future. If people want to regain those liberties, they must restrain themselves and act responsibly within the liberties and restrictions we now have. It's for their own good but some people don't seem to understand or they just can't control themselves. I do sympathize with people's social needs but some people aren't thinking clearly and I find that pretty frustrating. As an introvert I'm having an easier time with this than many other people, but I too want everything to return to normal, but people acting irresponsibly will just delay that from happening while the body count rises...
    You're absolutely correct.

    It's unbelievably selfish. Here in the United States we have people, usually fat and ugly Trump supporters, who are staging protests and causing massive spikes in cases because they want to get haircusts and go eat at their buffet restaurants. My heart goes out to all the people who will come to harm because of these selfish idiots.

  12. #2037
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Jafaville New Zealand
    We are officially in level 3 lockdown. And the first thing people did? Get McDonald's drive through.

  13. #2038
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Mmm, fries and nuggies.

  14. #2039
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Jafaville New Zealand
    And to top it off, yesterday our prime minister and head doctor during this pandemic had to deal with this comment (49m 32s). Thanks America

  15. #2040
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Only stupid people are breeding I tell ya.

  16. #2041
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Please, google translate this (for your children/sons/etc.)

    https://www.ecodibergamo.it/stories/...mmOPO7JX4PbDEQ

    As is known, the province of Bergamo has been severely and extensively affected by the pandemic originating from the virus called Saes-CoV-2, which causes a serious respiratory disease called Covd-19. "There has been a lot of talk about the risk factors that make a person more susceptible to the disease, and it has been said that children are protected from developing severe forms of Covd-19 pneumonia - explains Lorenzo D'Antiga, director of Pediatrics of ASST Pope John XXIII -. Despite this, we are learning that this virus can also cause other pathologies, activating the host's immune system and inducing an inflammatory response that can affect any organ, even after some time from infection ".

    «In the last two months - adds Lucio Verdoni, rheumatologist pediatrician of Pope Giovanni -, we realized that several children who had a disease known as Kawasaki disease came to the pediatric emergency room . In one month, the number of Kawasaki disease cases matched those seen in the previous three years. It has been calculated that the incidence of this disease in the last month has been 30 times higher than in the past ».


    See?
    I hope the doctors in this thread can listen to OUR doctors.
    Not me "TTLG random dude".

  17. #2042
    https://www.vox.com/2019/6/19/186819...accine-refusal

    One major problem we're going to have eliminating this thing is religion.

    North America was the only high-income region where people who follow a religion were much more likely to say they side with that belief system over science whenever disagreements arise. That finding was driven primarily by the US, where measles has been spreading among religious communities in states that have allowed religious vaccine exemptions.
    This is somewhat problematic because the way the first amendment is interpreted makes it difficult to get people to accept science over supersitition. People's superstition and wonky beliefs shouldn't come ahead of science and public health and you don't have a right to practice your religion if it goes against what is best for the people.


    Edit:

    Disgusting. Just disgusting, but we shouldn't be surprised after the rallies were exposed as astroturf: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/n...good-for-earth

    A Twitter account claiming to be the regional arm of climate change activist group Extinction Rebellion (XR) tweeted photos of an apparent postering campaign promoting the coronavirus as a natural "cure" to the human "disease," causing a swift backlash online.

    The problem: The group says it does not recognize the Twitter account and tweeted "far-right groups have put out stickers with messaging" that is not in line with the group's beliefs. In an email, Extinction Rebellion spokespeople clarified that they don't actually know who is behind the account, but social media posts by a neo-Nazi group viewed by Motherboard shows them gloating about flyers and claiming that the group impersonated Extinction Rebellion in the past.
    Last edited by Tony_Tarantula; 28th Apr 2020 at 11:46.

  18. #2043
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2019
    Location: Restaurant at end of universe

    Conspiracy origin

    The Chinese say it comes from the 1st annual military games in Wuhan, China. These games were played at the end of October 2019.
    Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whJwOkeBV5c
    Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Military_World_Games

    Some say this video is fake but is being spread by anti-vaccine people and Trump people. There are plenty of copies of this video on Youtube but this one is 7 years old. Regardless of whether it is fake or not it would have been developed during the Bush administration and deployed by Trump administration. Which makes one wonder of 'lack of intellect' by Trump supporters spreading this around. Plus the guy in the video says it is a virus (called the God virus) not vaccine, which is a stretch for the vaccine people.
    Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZVwIFDt99s
    Last edited by howeird; 28th Apr 2020 at 11:52.

  19. #2044
    Video is confirmed fake by Snopes.

    Regarding the "lack of intellect" well... Trump supporters have enormous endogenous stupidity and don't require any externalities to be stupid. Science wise you do use viruses to modify genomes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneti...ified_organism), but well..I guess it is kind of scary if you think about what a hostile power like the Russians could potentially do with viruses now that they've seen how inept our current administration is at handling these events.

    We're talking about people who believe Trump. Understanding science is beyond their mental faculties almost by definition.

  20. #2045
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Nobody can create this thing actually, 'cause the real problem in Covid-19 is NOT the infection but the overreaction to the infection. And it's totally a personal feature.
    And that's a thing NO ONE in the world could predict. Really no one, cause there's no such thing as an "immunological database" with the full data of every existing human being to "target" someone or some groups.

    Or we must assume that every autoimmune disease triggered by a virus infection is a weapon.....it's just ridiculous.

    How conspiracy people can't understand by theirself this thing is beyond my comprehension.
    Oh wait, they DON'T WANT to understand, they simply dream about.
    Last edited by lowenz; 28th Apr 2020 at 14:29.

  21. #2046
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    One conspiracy thread I encountered had the same evil organisation that created COVID19 (for the purpose of depopulating the earth, ala the Georgia Guidestones ) also engineering the lock-down. Thus, having successfully created a deadly, world killing virus, They immediately mounted a robust campaign to suppress its spread, and to revoke human liberty etc. etc.. But then that's the nature of conspiracies I guess. Not even the conspirators know the whole story.
    Last edited by Nicker; 28th Apr 2020 at 15:06. Reason: Needed to capitalise the T in They.)

  22. #2047
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Ah, another piece of the puzzle about the relationship hypoxia <-> coagulation <-> infection-induced inflammation

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...n-levels?rss=1

    Negri developed this idea after treating a woman whose breathing troubles coincided with circulatory problems in her toes. Negri’s team gave the woman heparin, a common blood thinner, and not only her toes but her breathing recovered. Negri wondered whether heparin could boost patients’ low oxygen levels regardless of whether they were struggling to breathe. On 20 April, she posted a preprint detailing her hospital’s experience with 27 COVID-19 patients. Patients with hypoxia received heparin, and the dose was increased if they had elevated levels of D-dimer, a blood marker of excess clotting.

    One of the 27 was lost to follow-up after transferring to another hospital. But 24 others are recovering—including six of eight who needed mechanical ventilation, a better rate of positive outcomes than has been reported elsewhere. Two remain critically ill. Negri is now planning to follow more patients. And several clinical trials elsewhere will test whether blood thinners can prevent or treat complications of severe COVID-19, including respiratory problems.

    Strayer finds it reasonable to imagine that hypoxia emerges because “small blood vessels of the lung are being showered with clots.” His own hospital and others are beginning to test many admitted COVID-19 patients for markers of excess clotting and treat those who show it with blood thinners. But, “It is simply not known” whether clotting causes happy hypoxia, Strayer says. There are other possibilities. Recent imaging of a hypoxic patient showed “almost waxy-looking film all around the lungs,” Caputo says. “I don’t know what is actually going on pathophysiologically down there.”


    All these doctors must be random and clearly stupid TTLG guys

    Caputo says this hypoxia is likely stressing a body already straining to battle the virus. What to do about it is prompting debate. An emerging view is that doctors should avoid aggressive treatment they’ve been trained to offer in other settings. Luciano Gattinoni, a guest professor in intensive care at the University of Gottingen Medical Center, is wary of what he calls a “Pavlovian response” to COVID-19 hypoxia, in which doctors may swoop in to inflate lungs with ventilators or high-pressure oxygen even when patients seem comfortable. Those measures, Gattinoni wrote 24 April online in JAMA, could harm lungs that are inflating on their own but may be needed if patients aren’t helped by noninvasive treatment.

    OH WAIT, where I saw this behaviour? Oh, here...................I hope someone can NOW understand.
    Last edited by lowenz; 28th Apr 2020 at 16:36.

  23. #2048

  24. #2049
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    You know that when this is all over, despite all the deaths, there will be those moaning that it was all a hoax. Over in the US anyway.

    All hail our reptilian overlords.

    Last edited by icemann; 2nd May 2020 at 13:51.

  25. #2050
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    It's easy to say that around my neck of the woods. The outbreak is small here, and life is going on relatively uninterrupted, despite the safer at home mandates almost no one has listened to.

    For some people, it isn't real until it's real for them. Anything that happens to other people is just a story, simple to dismiss as fake news.

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