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Thread: ☣ Coronavirus ☣

  1. #2101
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Lowenz. The fact that they are all "ganging up" on you, and nobody is defending you, should be an indication for you.

    Personally I wanted to stay out of this. I don't know if you are right or wrong. But I do see you are very explicit in your statements, with lots of bold, italic and underlined text. I've been on the Internet for 30+ years now (well before the existence of "the web"). And I know from experience, that people who use lots of bold text, larger fonts, colors, lots of smileys, all capital letters, etc, don't make the best impression.

    As others have said (who can judge this better than I can), you post a lot of information that holds truth. But not everything you post turns out to be always true. Not for everyone, not for all cases. Maybe sometimes you post something that turns out to be true later. Or partially true. But you probably also posted info that turned out to be false later. Covid-19 turns out to be a complex virus, with a complex pattern of illnesses and symptoms. You can't talk about it in terms of 100% truths. That's what bothering people. One webpage about a theory or statement, or one article in a medical journal, or one scientific study, doesn't mean that theory is true. I suggest you try to be a bit more hesitant in your style of posting.

    Nobody dislikes you here (I certainly don't). Dunning-Kruger wasn't mentioned because of the theories and information you post. Personally I don't even care if your info/theories are true or not. The issue is with your style of presenting. Your determination "this is the truth". And you don't seem to realize that your determination is the issue here, not the info you present. You can't defend yourself by posting more information to prove that you are correct. That will only make you look more smug. That's what you dont' seem to realize. That's why Dunning-Kruger was mentioned.

    Like Renz asked you: "tone it down a bit". And by that he doesn't mean "shut up" or "post less frequent". I think. You should just be a little less certain of yourself when you post. And maybe not use bold and underlined text anymore. A good attitude in life, imho, is to always think: "I'm pretty smart, but there is probably someone around here who is even smarter than me". That helps preventing us from saying dumb things. And remember, this forum is for people who loved the games made by TTLG. And as we all know, those games were made for "MIT-graduates". So the chance that there are people around here that are smarter than you and me is pretty high.

    Peace.
    Last edited by Gryzemuis; 12th May 2020 at 09:16.

  2. #2102
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    No, the problem is you playing an expert and being unable to let it go after being called out on it by multiple people already.
    LOL, I'm NOT playing "the expert", you want to see that. I'm only reporting the findings in our hospitals. They are NOT "my theories".

    Also, try looking at it from the perspective of other people for a moment. You are filling the thread with posts that are, ultimately, only about you. And you're being extremely irritating while you're at it. I mean, I get it -- you have been wronged and you now must do everything to prove yourself right. But nobody else here cares that your ego was hurt.
    And it's NOT about my "ego" it's about the accusation to "spread misinformation" by someone appeared from nowhere ONLY to attack me with the classical internet-era weapon "You are wrong 'cause of Durring-Kruger effect and you of course don't even know!!11111"

  3. #2103
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Lowenz. The fact that they are all "ganging up" on you, and nobody is defending you, should be an indication for you.
    Is this a real argument?

    And remember, this forum is for people who loved the games made by TTLG. And as we all know, those games were made for "MIT-graduates". So the chance that there are people around here that are smarter than you and me is pretty high.
    Is this a real argument ^2 ?
    I only see someone who's boasting himself attacking me, that's what I can clearly see.

  4. #2104
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Man, I was only trying to help you. Trying to help you understand what is going on here. Why people react the way they do. And yes, those 2 arguments I posted are real arguments. Of course is truth not about democracy. But in any circumstance, the chance that you are right, and everybody else is wrong, is often pretty slim. Think about that.

    If you insist on proving that you are right, and everybody else is wrong, you will only make everyone think you are a clown. The more you try to defend yourself, the deeper you will sink into your swamp. There is no way you can win this. If you don't want to learn, the result will be that a) everybody puts you on ignore, or b) you'll be banned from TTLG for being a nuisance who doesn't list to advice.

    Being right or wrong doesn't matter anymore. It probably didn't matter even at the beginning. This about how your present your posts. Who cares if someone "attacked you". If you have any self-confidence, what do you care if someone on the Internet disagrees with you ? Why insist in going into full battle-mode ?

    Heck, I suggested you to not use underlines or bold anymore. So you won't look like a clown. What do you do ? Post with underlines and bold. What can I say ?

  5. #2105
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    LOL, I'm NOT playing "the expert", you want to see that. I'm only reporting the findings in our hospitals. They are NOT "my theories".
    That's not what you're doing, though? You're selectively presenting information about a complex topic that has many unknowns and that the best experts are still in the process of figuring out and effectively going, "See? What did I tell you!? See? I was right all along!" and so on.

  6. #2106
    Lowenz, I put you on ignore what must be a full month ago now. It's got little to do with the material, you just come off as an insufferable twat. Apparently that hasn't changed much. So please do yourself a favor, read the room and learn some fucking manners.

  7. #2107
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Imma chime in once more.

    Last time.

    lowenz, I appreciate that you're interested in this. You've also posted a lot of links and text from reputable sources. That's fine, ordinarily I'd be in favour of it. This isn't the issue though.

    The issue, for me, is your interpretation of what you are posting, which is often incorrect in subtle but obvious ways. Trust me on this - go and do a physiology degree and come back to read what you've written. It's almost there but it's off target enough to be completely incorrect. A simple example is your seeming insistence that this virus is special somehow because it's not the virus that kills you. I've news for you - it' not the virus in any viral disease that kills you. It's the effect of the virus. HIV wrecks your immune response (in a completely different way to Covid btw). Ebola also causes clotting that results in tissue ischaemia - Covid isn't special in that respect - and causes bleeding and widespread inflammation. You present the Covid data like it's special. It's not. It's just new, with emerging effects. The first time scientists encountered and examine HIV, Ebola, SARS, MERS, bird flu, swine flu, it was the same - new stuff being discovered, people saying "ooooh, I found out if I use normal recruitment methods with these ventilated patients X happens".

    The reason it's all in the news is because this is a pandemic. Do you remember ANY of the information that came out during SARS, MERS etc?

    And your advice to dema re: ECG etc. Even I wouldn't suggest that, because I'm not there, I can't see him nor examine him nor take a full history. I'd stop at "see a doctor". I've worked with doctors all across Europe, including Italy, and I'm pretty sure they'd have pretty much the same advice.

    This isn't an attack, it's just information. Don't take it badly. When you first started posting about the pathophysiology and the emerging research I though it was cool.

  8. #2108
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by raph View Post
    Lowenz, I put you on ignore what must be a full month ago now. It's got little to do with the material, you just come off as an insufferable twat. Apparently that hasn't changed much. So please do yourself a favor, read the room and learn some fucking manners.
    And you must say this to all.

    LOL, keep ignoring, not a problem!

  9. #2109
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Man, I was only trying to help you. Trying to help you understand what is going on here. Why people react the way they do. And yes, those 2 arguments I posted are real arguments. Of course is truth not about democracy. But in any circumstance, the chance that you are right, and everybody else is wrong, is often pretty slim. Think about that.

    If you insist on proving that you are right, and everybody else is wrong, you will only make everyone think you are a clown. The more you try to defend yourself, the deeper you will sink into your swamp. There is no way you can win this. If you don't want to learn, the result will be that a) everybody puts you on ignore, or b) you'll be banned from TTLG for being a nuisance who doesn't list to advice.

    Being right or wrong doesn't matter anymore. It probably didn't matter even at the beginning. This about how your present your posts. Who cares if someone "attacked you". If you have any self-confidence, what do you care if someone on the Internet disagrees with you ? Why insist in going into full battle-mode ?

    Heck, I suggested you to not use underlines or bold anymore. So you won't look like a clown. What do you do ? Post with underlines and bold. What can I say ?
    "Win" ? There's nothing to win or to approve, I was accused to spread misinformation. It's NOT about "me", it's NOT about "winning" and definitively it's NOT about the issue (?) with "bold" and "underline".

  10. #2110
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    That's not what you're doing, though? You're selectively presenting information about a complex topic that has many unknowns and that the best experts are still in the process of figuring out and effectively going, "See? What did I tell you!? See? I was right all along!" and so on.
    Only because I was accused suddenly of "misinformation". It's not about my ego, it's about the accusation moved from nowhere "Hey this guy IS like the conspiracy baddies, no, it's WORSE! Kill him with Dunning-Kruger effect!"
    Last edited by lowenz; 12th May 2020 at 14:04.

  11. #2111
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    A simple example is your seeming insistence that this virus is special somehow because it's not the virus that kills you. I've news for you - it' not the virus in any viral disease that kills you. It's the effect of the virus. HIV wrecks your immune response (in a completely different way to Covid btw). Ebola also causes clotting that results in tissue ischaemia - Covid isn't special in that respect - and causes bleeding and widespread inflammation. You present the Covid data like it's special. It's not. It's just new, with emerging effects. The first time scientists encountered and examine HIV, Ebola, SARS, MERS, bird flu, swine flu, it was the same - new stuff being discovered, people saying "ooooh, I found out if I use normal recruitment methods with these ventilated patients X happens".
    Man, you think I'm stupid? I simply put the focus from "SARS2 infection / oh it's the virus!!111" to the "Covid-19" as a systemic syndrome due NOT ONLY to the infection. Simple as that.
    Of course every virus can do this, it's why I've posted the link about the Kawasaki similitaries to the Covid-19: cause the problem is NOT limited to the infection process OR the respiratory aspect (and there's no infection->pneumonia direct implication, cause we're talking about an interstitial pneumonia, tipically an autoimmune disease such Covid-19 seems to be on top of the SARS2 infection) but way more extended and it was the very same thing I was saying from the beginning.

    But some people didn't even know about this, so it's why I've said "it's not the virus that kills you".

  12. #2112
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    And FFS edit or multiquote instead of posting four times consecutively.

  13. #2113
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    And you must say this to all.

    LOL, keep ignoring, not a problem!
    Low, you've disrupted this conversation enough. It's time for you to bow out gracefully.

  14. #2114
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Thanks, the thread hogging can get obnoxious.

    Switching topics to the US/CC comparison, I think it's fair. Although it's mixing data from countries with different responses, different levels of testing, and differences in counting, we have the same variability from state to state here in the US.

    However, I expect bigger differences between the US and Europe to emerge in the summer. Most European countries seem to have accepted the need for stay at home orders and business closures, and waited until they were on the tail end of this wave before re-opening. But over here, 40% of the population never took it seriously in the first place. So we have some states where the closures and stay at home orders have been effective in slowing the virus down to the point where it can be contained via testing and contact tracing. But then we have other states where the daily counts of new cases and deaths are still growing, and some of those states (like mine) are re-opening anyway.

    In my state (NH), the closures were fairly limited, and we're ending them early. As of yesterday 11 May, shopping malls re-opened, along with barbers, salons, and dentists. Restaurants (which have been doing take-out) will be serving customers again for outdoor dining on Mon, 18 May. That just leaves bars, theaters and other entertainment venues, and schools remaining to officially re-open. But my biggest worry is about getting kids together again. As any parent knows, kids are potent virus spreaders, and wherever they congregate can become a hot spot. Schools will remain closed through the end of this academic year in June. But that's when camps and other summer child care programs start up, and I expect most will open on schedule a month from now. We still have untraceable community spreading going on, and we're still not testing every potential case, so I think that bringing the kids together again is just inviting a return to exponential case growth. It doesn't help that half of my town seems to think they don't need to wear any face covering or take other precautions in public.

    So I think that the re-opening will fail in at least half of the country if not more, and people will have to choose between going back under quarantine or dooming themselves to fight one outbreak after another for the next couple of years. I also think the long term economic impact of a continued malaise will be much greater than a short term strict closure to bring the virus back into containment. We've fallen victim to the false dichotomy of virus containment vs. economic recovery. The best thing you can do for economic recovery is to get the virus under control as quickly as possible.

    I congratulate the countries who are getting this done. There's at least a dozen countries with modern economies who are down to managing just a handful of new cases per day. And if current trends continue, 6-8 of the major G20 economies will have reached that point by the end of May. And there will be another 6-7 who are still stuck in the first wave of the pandemic, including the US and UK. The former group will be taking global market share from the latter.

  15. #2115
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    Man, you think I'm stupid? I simply put the focus from "SARS2 infection / oh it's the virus!!111" to the "Covid-19" as a systemic syndrome due NOT ONLY to the infection.
    Well here we are - it IS only due to the infection. This is like saying HIV related malignancy isn't due to the infection. It is, but just by circuitous process.

    I never said you were stupid.

    Of course every virus can do this,
    Actually every virus can't. This is wrong.

    and there's no infection->pneumonia direct implication
    But there is, and a clear one at that. This is incorrect.

    cause we're talking about an interstitial pneumonia
    That's irrelevant.

    tipically an autoimmune disease such Covid-19
    But Covid isn't an autoimmune disease. By definition - it's an acquired infection. It affects the immune system but it's not an autoimmune disease.


    Every one of your posts on this can be dissected like this, and that's the problem. It's almost right, but not quite. This is a specific type of fact mismatch. It's like, ahem, saying ice cream is nice because it makes your tongue cold and unhappy and then the sugar crystals, which are spiky, tickle your tongue and make it laugh and that difference from being unhappy to laughing is what is nice about it. It's true that ice cream is better cold, it's true that the sugar contributes to the nice taste on your tongue (and that the crystals would be spiky if you look at them under a microscope). It's even true that taste sensation makes you feel good, just like laughing. But really, it's completely incorrect.

  16. #2116
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    I want to note that in the middle of all of this, I echo Tocky's feelings. I'm happy to hear that our folks who've gone through shit with this virus are okay, or getting there - dema, and yes, you too, lowenz. Putting communication and philosophical issues aside for the moment, I'm glad people are still with us, no matter our differences.

  17. #2117
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Yeah, that should go without saying. Glad everyone is okay. Have a speedier recovery dema!

  18. #2118
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Up to date graphs of the stuff i track:


    UK and Russia were added some long time ago when the Russian testing stats looked funny and i though to extend my tracking to see if their numbers make sense (and my OCD needed a second graph, so, UK too) - surprisingly all of their numbers do make sense so far (it is hard to meaningfully fudge with functions with exponential elements over time without weird stuff surfacing - plain scale you can fudge with, but i don't care about that much as all kinds of natural errors make that aspect of the numbers questionable at best anyway). Figures.

    Reminder/additions:
    * blue = daily new cases
    * red = trend line for blue (over last 14 days to minimize noise from weekly cycles)
    * green = daily tests (France and Spain numbers are not entirely redistributed for daily values - their reporting is an annoying mess i cannot be arsed to deal with all the time. The rest are fine.)
    * yellow = daily deaths
    * dark green = total case count
    * dark red = total active cases (to see who and when is doing followups)
    All of thous are on logarithmic scale (right side Y axis).

    * light blue = total deaths / cases - fixed linear scale on left side Y axis
    Percentage above the graph it the total final value for 'light blue' stat.

    Est: Just recently started to do followup (my shorthand for closing up cases - ie. all the non-hospital / self quarantine positives). Started to open up restrictions some while ago - so far nothing, yet, has exploded - still in single digit daily new cases. Contact tracking "detectives" (not to be confused with non-epidemologist counterparts), which we reportedly have, should be happy about that - makes their job much easier.

    Ita: Getting slowly better all the time and seems to have started doing a bit more followup.

    Ger: Has been doing followup very diligently from the start (i remember noticing that almost 1.5 months ago - stood out among the others). Opened up restrictions a while ago, but are experiencing setbacks - ie. their "hit the brakes" criteria (50 new cases per 100K in region) is getting hit in various places.

    Kor: Very similar to Germany, but was able to smother the outbreak from start (never even reached 1K cases per day). Now opened up again, but uptick has not yet reached the 100 line where they were previously stuck for a month. Hopefully they never get there back again. I have high hopes for them as their cultural acceptance of crap-in-your-face (read: mask) is remarkably helpful.

    UK: Does no followup at all. As noted previously - their testing has ramped up a lot with case count remaining the same. Which means that deaths should drop and go in the opposite direction of tests - and they do.

    US: Same as UK, but the ramp-up of testing is smaller and drop in deaths, expectedly, also smaller. Notable difference is in death/case ratios. UK is really bad - unfortunately also expectedly (UK had even worse testing than US and consequently their blue and yellow lines are way closer too). Besides Germany - ALL of the CC countries were just terrible in thous areas also. Worse than US in comparable stages. Europe was hit very hard and was not ready for any of it and only a month or so ago started to get on top of it. US had very inconsistent testing initially (initially = after third party testing in meaningful quantity started - time before that was a shitshow [note the light blue anomaly at the start]). States ranging from 0.02 - 0.5 in positive/test - favoring (due to lack of capability) to test where the virus is spreading the least. In some sense - wasting the limited testing capability (having a federal government would be useful here). To be fair, the waste was not big as hot-spots still dominated with their testing counts. Even so - CC had a worse start. From what i can gather - US did, actually, well in their initial outbreak (yes, really). Only problem seems to be that once they reached the peak - they got stuck there - whatever is being done seems to be barely enough to maintain a small downward trend. Not entirely sure why. Testing per case found has fallen behind of CC a lot - but that is about all.

    Spa: Was very scary - thankfully things are way better now. Followup were spotty, but seems that things have calmed down enough that thous also have started to being done (2+ weeks ago).

    Fra: Why you so silly France? The noise from reporting delays is staggering. Horrible testing (ignore the end peak, the earlier parts are fairly accurate tho). Horrible death / case ratio also. But at least the downward trends of cases and deaths is present and ongoing. Not much followups. Everything is weird. Any insight from locals?

    World: "This isn't going away, is it?"

    Rus: Late to the party, but thankfully exploding very slowly - as expected. Tests a lot and has matchingly low deaths. Does no followup.

    Everyone has a very strong weekly cycle in new cases (understandable) and deaths (registering anomaly?) when not in outbreak/explosion phase.

    Quote Originally Posted by caffeinatedzombeh View Post
    I'm not all that sure you can compare countries in any meaningful way, I'm not even sure you can compare the same country over time as the way they count things changes so much.
    Depends on what you mean by 'meaningful'. I could write a comprehensive comparison of apples vs oranges and find it very meaningful (ie. incomparability itself is a form of comparison). . Like, in this case - it would not neccessarily be to compare like with like and more on the lines of perhaps to note the differences and speculate on reasons for thous. For that i think both pots are of similar make and diverse enough to smoothen the outliers into something sufficiently comparable. When i started, thous two were essentially equal in case count from very different beginnings - but have now, again, diverged quite a bit. Giving plenty of differences to speculate on - or just to notice them.

    Quote Originally Posted by caffeinatedzombeh View Post
    Personally I'm working on the assumption that the NHS's labs are doing the tests for the same set of people they always have been and that their numbers are comparable over time to get some idea of what's actually happening with the spread of the virus. Their daily new cases (England, trend is a lot flatter in Scotland and Wales, couldn't find easily viewable historical data for NI but at 30 new cases a day I wasn't going to look too hard) has been dropping pretty consistently 500 a week from the peak of 4500 in early April and will hit ~0 in two weeks.
    I am not well versed in UK internals to quite follow what you said :/. England is the part where things are rapidly improving?

    UK, as a whole, is improving veeeery slowly. Do keep in mind that viruses are exponential business and changes in growth/decline tend to follow that and are hence probably best viewed on logarithmic scale - check the image. Nothing will get anywhere near 0 in any time soon - the changes are multiplicative and not additive. The new case and death lines, compensating for the strong weekly cycle, are pretty linear in logarithmic scale.

    PS. Thanks for sharing your point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    In my state (NH), the closures were fairly limited, and we're ending them early. As of yesterday 11 May, shopping malls re-opened, along with barbers, salons, and dentists. Restaurants (which have been doing take-out) will be serving customers again for outdoor dining on Mon, 18 May. ...
    New Hampshire? I used that state for comparison to my country as their population count is the closest. Sadly, never wrote anything down and cannot remember anything notable - and they diverged too much to continue comparing.

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/estonia
    https://covid19.healthdata.org/unite.../new-hampshire

    I wonder how reliable the "social distancing" sections are. Accordingly to the links - the restrictions you have lifted never even existed for us.

    Stay at home order: Never had that - you can leave home without needing any reason (in fact, for population mental health reasons, going out has been encouraged from the start with the accompanying advice how to do it safely and to avoid other, unnecessary, trips out of home). As the link tells you have that order - what exactly does that mean in NH?

    All non-essential businesses closed: Not sure what would qualify. The page claims that whatever we had - did never qualify. I sure am glad i finally got an haircut before i went nutter-butter (managed to reserve my time early - heard that his reservations rapidly shot to over a month).

    Travel severely limited: Technically true as stated, no country wide limitations. However, there were some targeted limitations here-n-there (ex: the island with the massive outbreak was quickly isolated - only what is needed can pass).

    NH, the virus seems to be still in its spreading phase ("Daily infections and testing" section, "Confirmed infections" tab) - BUT, that on its own might be misleading. "Tests" tab shows that you just started testing (cases per test has almost halved - using the worst spot in mid April for comparison) which could count for the recent rise in confirmed cases. Whatever modelling the site uses tells that it is quite conceivable that the real daily infection count is actually going down. So, there is hope that it is not as bad as it might seem.

    We, on the other hand, are nervously anticipating when and how hard the infections bounce back up - after we got them down and are now opening up.

    ---------------
    Sorry if i went too Engrish somewhere.

  19. #2119
    ^^

    I'm seeing the kind of people who want to make blood sacrifices to the god of "muh economy" posting these stats around:

    https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-c...153633256.html


    What the Republiklan governors of these states think we're too stupid to remember is that they've been caught lying about their totals and threatening people to keep the reported death numbers low. These states almost certainly have had much higher numbers of deaths and the decline is due to lies.


    UK and Russia were added some long time ago when the Russian testing stats looked funny and i though to extend my tracking to see if their numbers make sense (and my OCD needed a second graph, so, UK too) - surprisingly all of their numbers do make sense so far (it is hard to meaningfully fudge with functions with exponential elements over time without weird stuff surfacing - plain scale you can fudge with, but i don't care about that much as all kinds of natural errors make that aspect of the numbers questionable at best anyway). Figures.
    Always good to hear from someone who actually understands stats and models. A lot of the Facebook idiot crowd does not and they don't understand things like how much of a sample you'd need to build a 1-tailed confidence interval like you would need for a binomial test (for those not well versed in statistics, google it and you'll be surprised how low the number of samples you need is). That Facebook crowd also doesn't understand things like what tweaking a single variable by as little as 1% does to an exponential model. A good way to illustrate the point would be to ask them "If I gave you a penny at the start of a month and doubled it every day, how much would you have?"

  20. #2120
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: uk
    Quote Originally Posted by zombe View Post
    I am not well versed in UK internals to quite follow what you said :/. England is the part where things are rapidly improving?

    UK, as a whole, is improving veeeery slowly. Do keep in mind that viruses are exponential business and changes in growth/decline tend to follow that and are hence probably best viewed on logarithmic scale - check the image. Nothing will get anywhere near 0 in any time soon - the changes are multiplicative and not additive. The new case and death lines, compensating for the strong weekly cycle, are pretty linear in logarithmic scale.

    It's essentially about me trying to rationalise how the various health services are measuring things and find one of their numbers that's actually measuring the same thing over time. Mostly I was trying to work out how much of the flatish line in new cases is down to finding things by looking for them and how much of it is due to actual spread of the virus.

    Whilst writing a more detailed explanation of what I was looking at, where and why I found some more useful numbers for other measures of how this is affecting the UK and have now reached the conclusion that the ONLY reason the graph I was originally looking at is on the government's website is to encourage optimism and it is not remotely measuring the same thing over time and when it reaches roughly 0 it'll be because they've outsourced all testing and not because the positive rate in a consistent set of tests on the same part of the population is dropping.

    Still, in the most astonishing feat of doing their job I have ever seen it only took two and a half days for the department for transport to give their opinion on whether an airport is a place used by the public for recreation (it is) and whether flying is a sport (it is) so at least now I can have my sky back.

    PS. Thanks for sharing your point of view.
    My point of view is often utter nonsense

  21. #2121
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Over in the US your going to end up with 500k dead or more as the power of $$$ is more important than lives apparently. I'm very happy to be living here in Australia where that isn't the case. Australian's living overseas have been flocking back in droves due to the response elsewhere in the virus compared to, as well as whether or not the public abided by the social distancing rules + home isolation or not. It sounds like in the US, too many people just said "FUCK YOU. YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO". And so all gathered together, spread the virus and died.

    Yeah no thanks.

  22. #2122
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    I'm amazed and appalled at some of the arguments I see for ending lockdown, all over the world.

    I get that the economy needs to get going or people will starve, but e.g. in the UK they're talking about opening schools because "children are unhappy". Forget the health of the nation, some kids are sad. It's ridiculous.

  23. #2123
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    I am sure that the Administration has perfectly good reasons for it's actions and inactions. Lets give Trump a chance to answer his critics.


  24. #2124
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Georgia (the US state, not the country) has found an interesting way to flatten the curve (look at the x-axis):

    <img src="https://i.imgur.com/YMu3SSW.jpg" width="1200">

  25. #2125
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Of course the CDC, following an Apollo Program level application of expertise and resources, coordinating with their global partners in the science of public health, should have been the organisation making the following announcement...

    Clinical trials of a possible Covid 19 Vaccine to begin immediately.

    But no.



    Starker. Did they just randomly redistribute the data for visual effect?

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