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Thread: TMA20AC Mission The Builder's Paradise (Mar 24, 2020)

  1. #251
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    The contest rules say (or at least suggest) that the authors of the missions remain anonymous until the voting period is over, which will be on June 28th. So you will most likely have to wait until the end of this month before you can contact the authors of this mission.

  2. #252
    Member
    Registered: May 2018
    Ok, I can wait.

  3. #253
    DromEd Archmage
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Between a bed and a machine
    Quote Originally Posted by Udo View Post
    Ok, I can wait.
    Alright, here the main author of this little big adventure!
    With the precious help from Dirkbogan, Drk and Marbleman to finish the mission in time during the last monthes.

    It has been very fun to do despite some difficulty because of the ambitious scale of the mission, but for such a contest, it really worthed it!
    I have read most of the criticism during all the voting period and you have been heard : I will try to update if possible.

    Anyway, Udo, what you wanted to tell me?

  4. #254
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Really, the absolute lion's share of credit goes to FireMage. It is essentially his solo mission: he invented the style, the gameplay, the story, most of the modified resources, everything.

    DrK, marbleman and I did provide a significant amount of brushwork in the last six weeks, and a few miscellaneous contributions to resources, but we were following FireMage's plan and design notes. I think the only serious gameplay input any of us had was DrK, who helped with designing the optional objective. And of course, everyone made invaluable suggestions during beta-testing.

    So, if you loved this mission (or hated it ), FireMage is the true genius behind it all. He worked on it tirelessly in the last few months -- it earned him a well-deserved silver medal

  5. #255
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2010
    Location: Switzerland
    Thank you all for this mission! This is one for the ages! but no wonder with so many VIPs

  6. #256
    Member
    Registered: May 2018
    I send you a PM about it, FireMage .

    But yeah, would have wondered if such a big mission would have been only made by one creator.

  7. #257
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    I've just finished this mission, and it was a blast!

    I do have a question: in the basement area, not far from where you start, there are two locked and unpickable doors. I never found a key for them, how are you supposed to get in?

  8. #258
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: CT, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowgrab View Post
    I do have a question: in the basement area, not far from where you start, there are two locked and unpickable doors. I never found a key for them, how are you supposed to get in?
    They unlock from the inside, look for vent shafts to gain access.

  9. #259
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: UK
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkBogan View Post
    So, if you loved this mission (or hated it ), FireMage is the true genius behind it all. He worked on it tirelessly in the last few months -- it earned him a well-deserved silver medal
    Loved this one - my favourite entry. Well done to you FireMage and all involved. A very slick, well designed and enjoyable FM.

  10. #260
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Quote Originally Posted by Dahenjo View Post
    They unlock from the inside, look for vent shafts to gain access.
    I already found several vent shafts in various parts of the map, but not anywhere near the area (or anywhere elsewhere that would lead to that room). More specific help, please?

  11. #261
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: CT, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowgrab View Post
    I already found several vent shafts in various parts of the map, but not anywhere near the area (or anywhere elsewhere that would lead to that room). More specific help, please?
    For the room in hallway near elevator:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ2e...youtu.be&t=281

    To get to other unpickable door near start:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ2e...youtu.be&t=434

  12. #262
    DromEd Archmage
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Between a bed and a machine
    Comments about the mission! I read them all, give it a look as well if you're curious!

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...JW9zImXc4/edit

    Also, I would like to ask to the one who said it : how can you call a book and a key placed on a chair in the middle of a room hidden?
    If it's hidden... it should be painful when it comes to look for truly hidden objects...

  13. #263
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Ukraine
    Quote Originally Posted by FireMage View Post
    how can you call a book and a key placed on a chair in the middle of a room hidden?
    You see, I'm not an idiot. But I wasn't able to find that book or key. I was able to finish the mission, so I haven't problems with finding things. But still, no book or key. Maybe it was a bug or something? How can I know?

  14. #264
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2011
    Location: ���&#5671
    Thus spoke the GRUMPIEST™ thief fan
    If you finished the mission, you found the book and the key. Simple as.

  15. #265
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Oh man, a lot of great comments on this mission. I may have to give it another chance. I didn't vote on this one because I gave up on it, finding it overwhelmingly large and having no idea where to go next.

  16. #266
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Ukraine
    Quote Originally Posted by Squadarofl View Post
    you found the book and the key. Simple as.
    That simply means that MAYBE I speak about different book and/or key. Or maybe not. I really cannot be sure where was the thing which I think I haven't found. But I'm sure that there was a big closed door which I wasn't able to open and to get to the other side was forced to do a long bypassing journey.

  17. #267
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2017
    Location: France
    the GRUMPIEST™ thief fan making a mistake like that? Preposterous!

  18. #268
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Ukraine
    Quote Originally Posted by Psych0sis View Post
    the GRUMPIEST™ thief fan making a mistake like that? Preposterous!
    I'm grumpiest thief fan here, not the snieksiest.

  19. #269
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2010
    Location: Switzerland

    Questions to FireMage on the Podcast

    Hey Taffers,

    any questions you would like to hear in our episode with "FireMage" about his outstanding contest mission "Builders Paradise?"

    Also, since he's a "Dromed Wizard" (Marblemen quote) - are there any technical questions you guys like to ask as well?

    Please tell us
    Thief Podcast - Inside at Last Megathread >>> https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149898

  20. #270
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Quote Originally Posted by Dahenjo View Post
    For the room in hallway near elevator:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ2e...youtu.be&t=281

    To get to other unpickable door near start:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ2e...youtu.be&t=434
    Thanks!

  21. #271
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2018

    Amazing mission

    I only finished this now, quite a bit after the contest. Like some others have mentioned, I also am not a huge fan of mechanist missions (at least before this), and when I encountered Kernel I interpreted his teleporting around as a bug (maybe some particle effects as he teleports around would've been nice), lost patience because of a very annoying death, and put the mission on hold out of frustration then didn't give it another go until recently. Kernel is still the biggest turnoff of this mission for me, I really didn't like the whole idea of a teleporting enemy, but fortunately he isn't as big of an issue as I thought before, and he isn't even particularly dangerous, while everything else was worth it.

    The architecture and atmosphere are among the best of all Thief FMs I've played. While difficult to compare with other styles like mansions or undead-focused, this must surely be the most gorgeous mechanist \ factory mission ever made. There is so much beautiful detail put into the design of each room, you really created a believable Karras factory-fortress. It is far superior, interesting, and more fun to play than T2's original final level. I think the idea of an alternate ending was an undertaking of a huge scope and the authors delivered. While some small mini FM's are quick and fun to play, like a silly pop song, this FM attempts to be a grand opera. What is amazing is that the delivery matches the ambition. I think you do have to be in the right mood to play this level, it's not just another quick Thiefy jaunt as some other missions, but boy when you are in the right mood and frame of mind for something heavy and epic, it is amazing. Some specific things I loved:

    - the design of the sewers for some reason was particularly great for me. I'm a sucker in Thief levels for that feeling you get when you are approaching something ominous, there aren't many enemies but you still feel the need to sneak around every corner knowing that inevitably something will go batshit crazy soon. Really nailed the atmosphere and immersion here
    - the amazing feeling you get when you first come outside and see the rust gas blowing in the wind and everything just feels like the Builder's apocalypse; if anyone wasn't amazed by this, you have no Thiefy heart!
    - the ominous music as you are entering the first large areas of the Builder's Paradise, I cannot think of a single better musical moment in Thief, FM or original...just really creates that feeling of how epic this undertaking is and how much is at stake here. Couldn't have made this feel more like T2's real ending...
    - the music in the church...was this from 2001: a Space Odyssey? Also perfect
    - all the details of the machinery in the factory were so well done, so much fun stuff to look at and admire your creativity; the original T2's final mission is kind of an embarrassment next to this (was never a fan), but hey I know they were working with less modern tools (no NewDark) and their final few missions were done in a hurry
    - the idea of a rebellious faction working against Karras after they had discovered his betrayal was clever and allowed for the necessary and relevant writing tidbits. I also symbolically like the idea that Karras wasn't able to completely enslave the humans who followed him, and thanks to them his plans were foiled (maybe Garrett wouldn't have succeeded in this mission without them??)
    - all, err excepting Kernel that is, the new enemies were nicely done.
    - loved the secret locations, I actually had a lot of fun discovering all the secrets that needed roping to in the factory and what not. Managed 7/9 secrets on my first play-through (ok kinda 2nd, but only got as far as Kernel 1st time around). More than I usually find : )
    - amazing quality of voice acting for an FM; ok not quite as good as the real game, but short of getting the original voice actors, it was really well done, this is not easy.

    It was quite difficult to figure out all the places to go...seemed like I did a better job finding the secrets than figuring out where I was meant to go for the main objectives at times, lol. I managed to do most things on my own with careful exploration and keeping notes of the important info in the readables, but I did get stuck eventually and had to consult the forums...I missed Irina's journal on the chair in the security room and I kind of knew I had missed something obvious but didn't want to spend hours going over every place again. I also didn't realize that the Extraction Manager's Key opens the chest with the crystal for a long time, that was dumb of me since the info is right there in a readable but I didn't put 2+2 together. Other than that, managed ok, also needed to consult the forums for the Vine and the "grinder" for the Stone parts of the optional objective (wasn't particularly trying to do that, but I found the other ones incidentally \ through exploration).

    I'll give this a 4.95/5 (small subtraction for Kernel and for the somewhat convoluted and circuitous route to accomplish all objectives, though it was mostly fun). Sorry I didn't get to replay this in time to rate it for the contest, in my eyes it deserves to share 1st\nd places with Feast of Pilgrims

    I spent a lot of time running around the factory with robots behind me, glad you included all those speed potions

    Ok so questions I have:
    - what's with the spaceship \ airplane that you can see fly through the window just as you are entering the Builder's Paradise? Didn't find any readable mentioning this later :P
    - was that music in the church from 2001: a space odyssey?
    - what is the music around the entrance \ first large halls of the Builder's Paradise?
    - how the heck do you open the door that's in the basement, very close to the elevator doors (the super tall elevator that takes you outside)? There is a flashbomb and some flares on a carpenter's bench that you can see through the door grate, but never figured out how to open it (guessing it's another secret) Edit: oh never mind, just saw the post right before mine for this last one lol, I always knew there must be something in that room with the flowing water, but never figured it out... : )
    Last edited by Toulomne; 19th Jul 2020 at 14:30.

  22. #272
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Well, I'm stuck. After going up the Throne elevator and doing some stuff, I used a slow fall to get back down as I was not finding a regular route down.

    Now I am trying to get back up, but there are no doors that I can access in order to get back up and I see no means of calling the Throne elevator.

    I also cannot get the map to open up in Dromed to get past this issue either. Was there a key in the camera control room that I missed? Is there no way to get back to the upper levels or call the elevator? I'm even more stuck now as I used my Invis potion to get past the turrets.

  23. #273
    DromEd Archmage
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Between a bed and a machine
    Well, bad news : you softlocked yourself as there is no way to call the elevator back down since I never thought it would have been possible to go down without dying...

    Normaly, from this place you should have been able to access the Security Room and find there on a chair in the middle of the room a redbook and a key that open almost all the remaining closed doors...
    Last edited by FireMage; 31st Jul 2020 at 03:59.

  24. #274
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2014
    I found a way to escape that softlock:

    - stand on a platform with acid near/under the bridge between upper north and south sections of Factory
    - use speed potion
    - jump on the bridge)


    It is not that effective - depending whether you have at least 1 speed potion or not and surely would be frustrating (so I recommend to make hard save before trying), but at least worked for me.

  25. #275
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Glad I made so many saves then.

    On an unrelated note: There is anything to that brick/stone wall at the first (rust-gas) elevator? The one with the bend?

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