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Thread: TMA20AC Mission The Builder's Paradise (Mar 24, 2020)

  1. #301
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    This suggests you me you have a problem with your T2 installation, so I would suggest re-installing your T2 game, sometimes the quickest and easiest way forward.

  2. #302
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    i mean newdarkloader

  3. #303
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    but its just these three missions... and a few elder ones may not work because of all the updates

  4. #304
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Try a different mission loader, FMsel or Angelloader.

  5. #305
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Sharon, PA, USA, Earth
    So I just finished Builder's Paradise, and I must admit this wasn't my cup of tea. I totally get the praise about architecture and story, but the layout was super confusing and the objectives and required puzzles were very cryptic to me. I kept retracing my steps probably 10 times without progress at the end. The highlights were the initial sewers and the aboveground rust gas filled area, that was freaking awesome. But then when I got down to the east and west wings, the rooms were too mazy and similar looking. Too many valves, keys in random locations, machines that I didn't know if could be used for anything or if they were just eye candy, etc. Some of those complaints might be illegitimate, but that's the feeling I'm left behind with. The first time I finished the foiling Karras' plans objective for example, I suddenly got a second objective successfully checked off saying to follow Irina's plans, without ever knowing who that even was. Too many locations also had similar names, like security rooms, living quarters, and floors/levels not clearly defined. If the map had been more exact, it might've been easier to follow, but I got too frustrated to fully enjoy this. I ended up having to use Fortuni's walkthrough to figure out what was going on at the end there, which is not like me at all, but I was just too done at that point. Upon finishing it, I had no desire to try to ghost it, but now that the dust has settled (no pun intended) I probably will give it a shot.

    I wanna thank you still Firemage for making this, as it is definitely a special mission. Just not my bag is all.
    Last edited by klatremus; 19th Apr 2022 at 20:16.

  6. #306
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    More than perhaps any map in the contest, time was the enemy for Builder's Paradise. It was only halfway done six weeks out from the deadline (at which point it became a four-way project rather than a solo map), and even a few days before release it was fundamentally broken and took a huge effort to become playable at all. A fair bit of content got cut, and many problems we identified with flow and conveyance simply couldn't be fixed in time.

    Many of these issues could be fixed with an updated version. For the foreseeable future, FireMage absolutely has his hands full with the final scripting for Black Parade and that certainly takes priority -- but it's not unfair at all to say that the map is imperfect or could be improved. It's not my place to say more details about his plans, but I know a re-release has been considered.

  7. #307
    DromEd Archmage
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Between a bed and a machine
    Atm, I'm juggling between TBP and my training course in C++.

    Once it will be done, I'll start fixing WotG, then finish creating the SS2-like transition script, then Builder's Paradise (using the aformentionned script to split it and set all the content I originaly planned).
    When WotG will be just more clear, less confusing and a better flow. BP will certainly have several changes, there are things which will still be the same because I'm happy with most of the mission, and the wrong decisions which could lead to a softlock or confuse because not done in the right order, all of these will definitely be molten and reshaped.

  8. #308
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Ukraine
    Quote Originally Posted by FireMage View Post
    C++.
    Good. Our world has more than enough Python/JavaScript/etc saboteurs already... We need more programmers.

  9. #309
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Sharon, PA, USA, Earth
    Could someone tell me what this switch does?


  10. #310
    DromEd Archmage
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Between a bed and a machine
    It just turn off the machine nearby which emits light. So it just make this corridor darker so you could hide there in the shadows

  11. #311
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Sharon, PA, USA, Earth
    Thank you. Another question: Can you operate the crane lift in the opening area? The floor looks like it could be raised, but I haven't found a button for it.

  12. #312
    DromEd Archmage
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Between a bed and a machine
    Hehe, gonna say I feel touched to hear my design looks convincing enough to give the feeling there're machines you can operate with, but unfortunately no, the crane and the floor are pure static terrain brushes and can't move.

    It's however an interesting idea. Perhaps when I'll be fixing BP after TBP and WotG, I'll make it movable to improve flow and reduce backtracking annoyance. But atm, you unfortunately can't operate it.

  13. #313
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Sharon, PA, USA, Earth
    It's totally ok, no need to "fix" that. I just wasn't able to close the air shaft hatch without getting stuck in that area, which is why I was hoping that lift/crane could be operated. I didn't realize you can end the mission where you start, so I could just close it then. I thought you had to go to the nave's main entrance to finish.

  14. #314
    DromEd Archmage
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Between a bed and a machine
    There are three way out actually :
    - starting point
    - main entrance in the nave
    - the broken tower on the roof

  15. #315
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2020
    Location: Croatia
    When I try to play this mission it crashes just when the loadout is done. I saw an instruction to quicksave and quickload at the start but to me the game crashes just before the mission would start. Does anyone know what's going on? All the other missions work fine for me.

  16. #316
    Member
    Registered: May 2023
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by AluminumHaste View Post
    There is a simple fix for this and I did it myself; STOP USING 24BIT OR 32BIT AUDIO FORMATS FFS! It was the same problem in Endless Rain.
    Converting all the files to 16bit 44.1Khz Mono wav files fixed the static issue.
    Had the same problem, as you said, converting them to 16bit fixed the issues, no problems during a whole playthrough with OpenAL and EAX enabled.
    For anyone having the same problem and wanting to play with OpenAL/EAX, I did the following:

    Extract all folders in the snd folder from the FM archive
    Move all files from one folder (only MiscVOs / projectile and SFX have 24bit files!) into foobar2000
    Right-click into the column bar (where Artist/Album, Track no etc. are located), select Columns -> More...
    Add new custom column (name it bit depth or sth. similar), add "$info(bitspersample)" into the Pattern tab (without quotes!), apply/OK
    You can now see the bit-depth of all files from the folder without checking each individually.
    Select all 24bit files (those are only .wav), right-click + convert, click on "Output format", select WAV, output depth 16bit, go back
    Click on "Destination", choose a folder of your liking, select "convert each file to an individual file", copy/paste "%filename%" into the Name format (again without quotes!) and convert.
    After one folder is finished, add the converted 16bit files to the archive by dragging/dropping them into the correct folder, the 24bit files should be overwritten (you have to use 7zip for that as WinRAR claims it can only add files to an archive with .rar/.zip, converting the .7zip file to .zip should work as well) Do that for all 3 folders.
    Install the archive with your modloader as usual.

    Edit: To the mission itself, amazing visually and gameplay-wise. A little too hard for my taste but it's mostly my fault for choosing Expert. I wish this mission would've been the final mission of Thief 2, wasn't really a big fan of that one. Especially the start of the mission with the outside section and the recorded audio logs did so much for the overall atmosphere, reminded me heavily of games like Bioshock. (Voice acting was also amazing)
    Last edited by styora; 20th Jul 2023 at 05:14.

  17. #317
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2024
    Is there any way to actually kill the zombie guy? I have tried many things (including all explosives) but he just gets knocked out for a while and then gets up again. Playing on normal.

  18. #318
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: CT, USA
    There is a way but you need to pick up a special weapon before you go inside, watch here...


  19. #319
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2024
    Thanks, Dahenjo! I remember picking up the gears, but it never occured to me to use them that way.

  20. #320
    New Member
    Registered: Dec 2023
    I would really love a detailed breakdown of the enemy spawn and behaviors set up for this mission. There's a lot of invisible scripting and new enemy types going on, and I'm curious about the potential utility of some of these in other FMs.

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