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Thread: TMA20AC Mission The Builder's Paradise (Mar 24, 2020)

  1. #176
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by FloraPoste View Post
    I've looked everywhere! Could you spoil me?
    I have searched every part of the basement, either it's really really obvious and I am really really obtuse - or there's a bug with my copy. So if anyone could spoil me, I'd be very grateful, I've spent 3 hours going around in circles.

  2. #177
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by FloraPoste View Post
    I have searched every part of the basement, either it's really really obvious and I am really really obtuse - or there's a bug with my copy. So if anyone could spoil me, I'd be very grateful, I've spent 3 hours going around in circles.
    First check map of the basement. You are starting mission at "Entrance Here" location. Use control panel to open Air Shaft. Go all the way south to Elevator to the Roof. Double door are closed and unfrobbable. Switch to open elevator is right above door. So you need to go east to stairs leading to Elevator Controls. And you will appear above elevator door. Use lever to open door and use nearby switch to summon elevator. Go back to elevator and use inside switch to ride to the roof.

  3. #178
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    First check map of the basement. You are starting mission at "Entrance Here" location. Use control panel to open Air Shaft. Go all the way south to Elevator to the Roof. Double door are closed and unfrobbable. Switch to open elevator is right above door. So you need to go east to stairs leading to Elevator Controls. And you will appear above elevator door. Use lever to open door and use nearby switch to summon elevator. Go back to elevator and use inside switch to ride to the roof.
    Thanks Galaer!

  4. #179
    Love this one, fantastic concept and beautiful look and extremely creative. Also pretty difficult!


  5. #180
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: CT, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by ticky View Post
    Finished on Expert.

    Even after Karras himself is dead, this Kernel f****r shows up to me near the exit, when I start to think I finally won.
    There's a way to get rid of Kernel the first time you see him & he doesn't come back the rest of the game. It involves a custom weapon found in the beginning of the mission.

  6. #181
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: West Seattle
    just a quick note: I couldn't find it in FMsel 1.1.2 after downloading, turns out the release date was set to 01/01/70 and the name does NOT include TMA20AC (just listed as The Builder's Paradise).

    playing it I'm very impressed; a creepy, atmospheric Mechanist mission with great dimensionality to the surfaces (many functional layers, moving parts) and creepy new enemy AI!
    is there supposed to be deafening static outside and near the throne room?
    Last edited by MrMunkeepants; 8th Apr 2020 at 04:09.

  7. #182
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2015
    Location: Shawano County, Wisconsin
    Saved this contest mission for last, and boy, am I glad I did! What a fantastic alternate ending for Thief 2!

    I had already finished the main objective and was about to leave when I remembered I still hadn't found a way into the security room. The only way I found to reach that part of the map was to enter the hallway near the start with the watcher and the door jammed shut by the combat bot, mantle the lamp, and then mantle the bronze pipe. I'm sure that's not the intended route (and is potentially sequence-breaking if I were to do that maneuver right away on another playthrough), so I'm curious how I was supposed to reach that area.

    Anyway, once I finished exploring for loot, I ended the mission with 3 hours of playtime, 4271/4771 loot, and 6/9 secrets.

    Also, nice touch with the gilded apple on the iron tree.

  8. #183
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Grandmauden: did the giant door with Karras' face on it not open for you? That's the way you are supposed to go to get to the Security Room. Seems like a few people are having this issue, but unfortunately nobody experienced this door not opening during testing.
    MrMunkeepants: the static might be a result of OpenAL being on. If it isn't on, try setting your Audio>Hardware Acceleration setting to the inverse of its current setting. I never had any static with both Hardware Acceleration and OpenAL off, but it seems to differ depending on the player's install.

  9. #184
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    Location: Germany
    For those who haven't played it yet, and for those who want to replay this mission. Here is an observation I made.
    I played this mission with graphical enhancement pack necro age mod ON.
    And here is why: It looks unbelievably amazing with it. I compared both, ON and OFF. It looks way better ON. This is true and I'm speaking from my own experience.
    I don't know about other mods, but this one certainly works more than well. It's definately a big improvement and I can only recommend it.
    And before anyone might feel the urge now to bad-mouth the use of this 'soulless' graphic mod: Please try it out yourself first, before commenting. It makes everything just better. At least in this FM.

  10. #185
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    NecroAge is at odds with the stock resource stipulation of the contest. It also desaturates and 'wears out' many textures that are supposed to be shiny and polished. While you can do much worse (the dreaded HD Mod), I have it on authority from the authors that you are NOT supposed to experience this FM with NecroAge. Whether you choose to use it on replaying is another matter, but your first experience should be as the authors intended.

  11. #186
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    Location: France
    It's just utterly disrespectful towards the author(s) to endorse the use of mods when they clearly intended the mission to be played vanilla.

    You really-really-really like how it looks? Great. Play it that way. But don't advertise it.


  12. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMunkeepants View Post
    just a quick note: I couldn't find it in FMsel 1.1.2 after downloading, turns out the release date was set to 01/01/70 [...]
    For the record, here's what's happening here: it's not that the date is explicitly set to 1/1/1970, but rather, it's that the date is specified in the wrong format in fm.ini, and FMSel therefore just puts a default date of 1/1/1970.

    The fm.ini file looks like this:

    NiceName=The Builders Paradise
    ReleaseDate=03/23/20
    InfoFile=Readme.txt
    Tags=author:Children of Endeavour,genre:contest,genre:mechanist,genre:industrial,genre:alternate history,genre:endgame like,genre:system shock like,language:English
    Descr=Viktoria's plan was based too much on luck
    so Garrett obviously could not stop Karras with it.
    So he explored some Mechanist churches to gather information
    and learned that Karras can move from SoulForge via a tunnel
    to a bigger secret and guarded safe house called the "Builder's House"
    which shall become the core of the new city Karras plan to build :

    The Builder's Paradise.

    Now Garrett have enough information, he knows some machines could
    be used against Karras to stop him without a risk of failure.
    All he needs to do is to get there, find the last information
    he needed and defeat Karras.

    Crawling in vents in the complex tunnels under the City,
    he managed to find his way to a basement right under
    the compound. Will he succeed on his mission?
    Note the ReleaseDate= line. The date is specified as a standard North American-style human readable date, but what FMSel expects is a Unix hexadecimal date. The correct line in this case would be ReleaseDate=5E785E70 (at least for my time zone).
    Because it can't read the date, it just defaults to 1/1/1970 which is the earliest possible date that Unix time can represent.

    For the record AngelLoader will detect this date correctly even though it's not to spec because I'm an obsessive dork, but yeah, it's not to spec, so that's why.

    AngelLoader will also convert the audio files to 16-bit for you on install (by default, and you can also do it manually later) to avoid the static problem

    Edit: The Descr= line is also in the wrong format. It's supposed to be all one line with line breaks delineated by \n. So FMSel only displays the first line, "Viktoria's plan was based too much on luck" and nothing more if you go to View Summary. INI file values should not ever be multiple lines as that's extremely, extremely not to spec whatsoever at all. I've never made a mission so I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think what may be happening is that sometimes authors make this fm.ini file manually but it should be generated using a tool(?)
    Last edited by FenPhoenix; 8th Apr 2020 at 11:58.

  13. #188
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: West Seattle
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkBogan View Post
    MrMunkeepants: the static might be a result of OpenAL being on. If it isn't on, try setting your Audio>Hardware Acceleration setting to the inverse of its current setting. I never had any static with both Hardware Acceleration and OpenAL off, but it seems to differ depending on the player's install.
    Both those and 48 audio channels are locked (white text) .
    Quote Originally Posted by FenPhoenix View Post
    AngelLoader will also convert the audio files to 16-bit for you on install (by default, and you can also do it manually later) to avoid the static problem
    Maybe I should finally give that a try. Are saves cross compatible?

  14. #189
    Yep. AngelLoader is designed to drop right in to any existing setup. You can keep using your saves and you can even import data (ratings, comments etc.) from other loaders too.

  15. #190
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2007
    Location: Krull Island, in the pub
    Quote Originally Posted by Karras35 View Post
    For those who haven't played it yet, and for those who want to replay this mission. Here is an observation I made.
    I played this mission with graphical enhancement pack necro age mod ON.
    And here is why: It looks unbelievably amazing with it. I compared both, ON and OFF. It looks way better ON. This is true and I'm speaking from my own experience.
    I don't know about other mods, but this one certainly works more than well. It's definately a big improvement and I can only recommend it.
    And before anyone might feel the urge now to bad-mouth the use of this 'soulless' graphic mod: Please try it out yourself first, before commenting. It makes everything just better. At least in this FM.
    I think that this mission and its vibes are already waaay enough dark and creepy even with the original textures, and as I experienced, the necro age mod makes everything a bit darker, grittier, and nasty even more, than probably the authors of the original game intended to. However, thank you for the idea!

  16. #191
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: CT, USA
    I think there's a secret here, can I get a hint?
    I've tried shooting everything in my arsenal at it, and there's a metal wall panel to the left out of view that I figure should open somehow.


    Another one here in Factory area, is it just a really tough acrobatics maneuver or is there another way in?
    EDIT: Solved, just continue past '3 corroded canisters' secret nearby.


    Thanks for any help, it seems the most secrets found so far is 6/9 on expert?
    Last edited by Dahenjo; 10th Apr 2020 at 11:35. Reason: secret hunting....

  17. #192
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: West Seattle
    okay, I need to shut down the factory by putting something(?) into the grinders, turning on lights, or turning off the water in the basement?
    Looking for two of the optional elements: vine and fire.
    was there something I was supposed to do with the green energy tubes? I only found one valve

    can someone tell me where to find these things? I've been running around fruitlessly for long enough I'm getting frustrated (all the brilliant discovery moments earlier are starting to turn sour, and I don't want to end on that note)

  18. #193
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2015
    Location: Shawano County, Wisconsin
    In regards to shutting down the factory...

    Method 1: In the extraction room, a bunch of boulders are dropping off conveyor belts into two chutes. Drop something metallic in one of those chutes to plug it up (I used the explosive charge), and a red light above the belts will turn on.
    Method 2: I didn't use this method, but I presume you just need to turn on enough lightswitches throughout the building until there's not enough power going to the factory.
    Method 3: Throughout the basement where you started are five pipes with valves you can turn, though I believe one is only accessible through the vent above the stairs to the elevator controls. If the pipe is still active, the valve wheel will be straight, but once you turn it off, the wheel will be at an angle. You'll hear a noise after all five are turned off.

    There are three red lights at the entrance to the factory where Karras first speaks to you, and each will light up as you complete one of the methods for shutting down the factory.

    Regarding the valve for the green tubes, I don't believe you have to worry about them beyond the one valve you turned off while escaping Karras's trap.

    I don't remember where to find the optional things, sorry.

  19. #194
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMunkeepants View Post
    Looking for two of the optional elements: vine and fire.
    Vine - Fixing Room, Fire - Armory.

  20. #195
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2018
    Location: Germany
    I'm done..

    Loot: 4045
    5 from 9 secrets
    but i still haven't found the key to the Ore Storage Room
    Q_Q

    it is the last element that I still miss Q_Q

  21. #196
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: CT, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett TMT View Post
    but i still haven't found the key to the Ore Storage Room Q_Q

    it is the last element that I still miss
    Q_Q
    It's next to a body very near where you get the replacement crystal.

  22. #197
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2018
    Location: Germany
    Thx Q_Q

    I found all the 5 piece of Cheese but the Key was too hidden for me xO

  23. #198
    New Member
    Registered: Feb 2019
    Quote Originally Posted by Karras35 View Post
    For those who haven't played it yet, and for those who want to replay this mission. Here is an observation I made.
    I played this mission with graphical enhancement pack necro age mod ON.
    And here is why: It looks unbelievably amazing with it. I compared both, ON and OFF. It looks way better ON. This is true and I'm speaking from my own experience.
    I don't know about other mods, but this one certainly works more than well. It's definately a big improvement and I can only recommend it.
    And before anyone might feel the urge now to bad-mouth the use of this 'soulless' graphic mod: Please try it out yourself first, before commenting. It makes everything just better. At least in this FM.
    Agree. I try both everytime, sometimes it looks better with necroage, sometimes not.

  24. #199
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: West Seattle
    armory key: found on a body near the mech beast crushed by the nave door, accessible by one of several routes coming up from the sewers. There is a watcher guarding the hall, so I had crept right by it without realizing it was there much earlier in the game (before the elevator to the outside.) Now that I'm up here, I've found the Keeper secret, so backtracking had its benefits!
    The fastest path down to the sewers was through the fixing room, where I discovered I hadn't properly harvested the damaged mech with corrosives to get the seed I needed.

    overall about 3 hours of linear playtime, short 3 secrets and 300 loot; thanks to everyone giving help when I got frustrated, I'm very glad I stuck with it!

  25. #200
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by Xuio View Post
    Thank You Pavis! It was the "diving helmet" i was looking for - you need to drop it to the grinder in the extraction section..

    Still looking for the cold room key
    I just threw a gas mine into the extraction ore shaft.

    I'm not sure if I broke anything by doing this, but I used a speed potion to run and jump to the walkway that is west of the throne room. Also the locked doors that are just north of that walkway were opened by a spider bot.

    I've read Irina's journal, so how do I get Karras' doors open?

    Edit: I just finished and this is an excellent mission! I missed most of the secrets though. I especially liked the ostrich bot!

    One small bug: When I was upstairs on the back side of Karras' quarters, that extra tall mechanist bot got stuck inside Karras' quarters and couldn't get out... maybe it was too tall?
    Last edited by john9818a; 12th Apr 2020 at 18:17.

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