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Thread: TMA20AC Mission Troubling Transitions (Mar 24, 2020)

  1. #26
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Psych0sis View Post
    Check out some of the rooms near the nave
    thx i was blind

    very nice mission thx

  2. #27
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2011
    now i'm playing on expert .

    but i've folling problems.

    can't find the intruder painting and i have to steal 4 trinkets but i couldn't find one

    please can anybody give me some hints

  3. #28
    New Member
    Registered: May 2018
    Location: Berlin
    Quote Originally Posted by radogoal View Post
    now i'm playing on expert .

    but i've folling problems.

    can't find the intruder painting and i have to steal 4 trinkets but i couldn't find one

    please can anybody give me some hints
    Intruder painting: It's on a pedestal somewhere in Dewinder's house.
    Trinkets: You may have already found some and not realised. If you have a named item that doesn't seem to be for anything that's one. 4 of them are in the mechanist area I believe and 2 more are scattered around the map.

  4. #29

    Fun and comfy. Really impressive, maze like cathedral, good job on that. I loved the idea of mechanists refurbishing the place, clash of both styles.
    But even though I played on expert, there was really no challenge anywhere, I've breezed through and the only equipment I used were two water arrows and 3 or so moss arrows (mainly in the library area)


  5. #30
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2017
    Location: France
    Yes, I'm not a big fan of making things too hard that they become more annoying than they are enjoyable (see Midnight in Murkbell for an example of that ) but I might have erred too far on the babby-pandering side.

    Thanks everyone for the very nice comments, and to those who also post honest feedback. This makes me very excited to keep on working on delivering more and more missions in the future

  6. #31
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Psych0sis View Post
    Yes, I'm not a big fan of making things too hard that they become more annoying than they are enjoyable (see Midnight in Murkbell for an example of that ) but I might have erred too far on the babby-pandering side.

    Thanks everyone for the very nice comments, and to those who also post honest feedback. This makes me very excited to keep on working on delivering more and more missions in the future
    That's the exact reason why people should think twice before criticizing someone who worked up their butts to provide free missions for others to play!
    To be honest, that's a thing I also had to learn first. I'm also a big critic, but I realized harsh criticism can be devastating to the point that someone might get disencouraged to build something new in the future.
    People should always have this in mind! Here is an advice from me: To every thing you have to critizice, say (at least) five (really) positive things that are well done! But in a way so the overall vibe still remains positive and the criticism stays subtle. Please everyone be a little bit more sensitive and kind to each other.
    Last edited by Karras35; 5th Apr 2020 at 18:20.

  7. #32
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    I think that's a bit of an overreaction to Psych0sis saying he found Midnight in Murkbell annoying in its difficulty, a sentiment which has been shared by many players over the last 18 years.

  8. #33
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2017
    Location: France
    What in the hell

  9. #34
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    Location: Germany
    I'm sorry, it seems I misinterpreted everything and overreacted too much.

    But my post was actually a reaction to mtks comment, not at all a reply to Psych0sis statement about Midnight in Murkbell. He is the one I was fighting for.

    I really thought that this

    Quote Originally Posted by Psych0sis View Post
    This makes me very excited to keep on working on delivering more and more missions in the future
    was meant ironic...as a result of this:

    Quote Originally Posted by mtk View Post
    there was really no challenge anywhere, I've breezed through and the only equipment I used were two water arrows and 3 or so moss arrows (mainly in the library area)
    I intended to defend Psych0sis mission and in wanted to make a statement about constructive criticism, but it seems it was all a big mistake and I totally misunderstood.. So it was actually not ironic and you're really happy about it.. I see.
    Sorry for the trouble.

    Edit: Wow this is really embarrassing for me... Now I feel like an idiot... Sometimes the mind can play tricks on you...

    Sorry guys... Sorry mtk, sorry Psych0sis! Big Sorry!
    Last edited by Karras35; 30th Mar 2020 at 17:05.

  10. #35
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    No worries!

  11. #36
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2017
    Location: France
    Oh no, I'm fine with getting ripped into, and I would agree with most flaws pointed out (though I do think the story should be quite obvious and I don't think it was too bad, really not sure how people didn't catch on to what was going on here :P). And in all fairness, I do get a little picky on minimal things myself when posting about other missions, though overall I would like to stress I still do enjoy almost everything I play. My usual rule of thumb is if I managed to beat it and am not mad about it, then it's at least a 6/10 and work up from there.

    Anyway, sorry for this semi-offtopic posting, I'm sleepy and bored. Hope everyone has a good time with all the missions, but do remember to give mine 30/30 or I will find you

  12. #37
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    I beat it in 1,5 hour and collected 4647 loot. Nice mission. I could barely hear city music, you could increase it's volume. Also it's second mission with weather. I'm surprised. Cathedral was really big and complicated. I wish I would have a map of it.

  13. #38
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2013
    Location: Finland
    It was very nice to see it snowing in this mission! Cathedral was big and well done. There were lots of good climbing spots. Loot requirements may have been a bit higher. Overall I liked this mission, good job!

  14. #39
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2001
    Location: Southern Tier NY, USA
    Wont load. Get Running Interference, the first T2 mission every time. Using Angel loader 1.4) Every other mission works fine. I even re-downloaded it several times. Both the winrar and the 7zip. There was also a weird bug. Every time I would load it, angel loader would say Into the odd was installed. WTF?????

  15. #40
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2007
    Location: Krull Island, in the pub
    Great level, smooth gameplay, nice story of mechanists taking over hammerites. Not too hard to win as well. My only concern is, I feel it a bit weird (even stupid) that despite the cold and snowy weather, nearly all windows are open in this part of the city. How come? At least some explanation in the readables would have been good. Just try it IRL - leave a window open for a night in winter, and see what happens (to you, your furniture and your houseplants as well...). Sorry, I'm not trying to be picky, but this one is weird. However, a well built mission and a good hour of thieving.

  16. #41
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2017
    Location: France
    Ticky, thank you for the kind words, very happy you enjoyed the mission!

    And as for what's in the spoilers... I agree! It is a bit stupid, no one would realistically do this lol. However I ultimately decided to go ahead with it anyway, and here's why.

    Main reason - I just don't think it's that big of a deal, if one at all. There are a lot of immersion breaking things in thief if you look hard enough. Why is this guy sleeping on his bed in all his clothes AND shoes? Why are some of the buildings a bit architecturally impossible? (the R&R law offices bridge room, for example!). Also, this point of it being too cold for windows to be open could be applied to pretty much EVERY city fm (or even most fms, honestly) set at night that use a wind ambient, which is almost all of them. Windy nights are very, very cold! Hell, some of the OMs even just have HOLES in the wall, imagine those bedrooms in the winter, oh my! But in all seriousness, just keep in mind that Thief, like many forms of entertainment, relies on the suspension of disbelief. If you think too hard on everything, then it all falls apart.

    Secondly - For gameplay reasons, I believed this to be the most reasonable option to choose from. I could have used secret doors with windows textures, sure, but due to how they look WITHOUT transparency (i.e no noticeable difference unless you walk up and try to frob them), this made me not want to make people think like they may be missing some frobbable windows around the map. I would feel pretty bad wasting the time of my players like that. Open windows are easy to notice, and I think is a necessary evil for this purpose. Adding transparency to them, perhaps? Sure, but I still think it's a bit annoying, and a bit unnatural to me (situations like "why is this window clear to see through, but this one isn't?" Gee, talk about immersion ruining!). Also, this ultimately locks me into only making my window openings 4x8, due to the way the texture resolutions are, which would be really samey and would require me to change A LOT of the mission to accommodate. Not good. There's probably a way to make it fit for, say, the 4x6 or 3x7 window openings I used, but I wouldn't know how to do that, especially so stock. And have you seen how the sides of these secret doors look when they have textures applied to them? That's the worst!

    Lastly - Perhaps there is a reason for them being open? Maybe a certain smell was unbearable, or perhaps the one nobleman got a little too drunk, and needed a window open for a bit, and then passed out! Did you notice some of the wine bottles nearby the sleeping bodies? Just use a bit of imagination :P !


    Thank you very much for this thought provoking discussion! I love hearing opinions like these and using them as an excuse to discuss game design. And again, thank you for the kind words.
    Last edited by Psych0sis; 5th Apr 2020 at 22:29.

  17. #42
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2007
    Location: Krull Island, in the pub
    Quote Originally Posted by Psych0sis View Post
    Ticky, thank you for the kind words, very happy you enjoyed the mission!

    And as for what's in the spoilers... I agree! It is a bit stupid, no one would realistically do this lol. However I ultimately decided to go ahead with it anyway, and here's why.

    Main reason - I just don't think it's that big of a deal, if one at all. There are a lot of immersion breaking things in thief if you look hard enough. Why is this guy sleeping on his bed in all his clothes AND shoes? Why are some of the buildings a bit architecturally impossible? (the R&R law offices bridge room, for example!). Also, this point of it being too cold for windows to be open could be applied to pretty much EVERY city fm (or even most fms, honestly) set at night that use a wind ambient, which is almost all of them. Windy nights are very, very cold! Hell, some of the OMs even just have HOLES in the wall, imagine those bedrooms in the winter, oh my! But in all seriousness, just keep in mind that Thief, like many forms of entertainment, relies on the suspension of disbelief. If you think too hard on everything, then it all falls apart.

    Secondly - For gameplay reasons, I believed this to be the most reasonable option to choose from. I could have used secret doors with windows textures, sure, but due to how they look WITHOUT transparency (i.e no noticeable difference unless you walk up and try to frob them), this made me not want to make people think like they may be missing some frobbable windows around the map. I would feel pretty bad wasting the time of my players like that. Open windows are easy to notice, and I think is a necessary evil for this purpose. Adding transparency to them, perhaps? Sure, but I still think it's a bit annoying, and a bit unnatural to me (situations like "why is this window clear to see through, but this one isn't?" Gee, talk about immersion ruining!). Also, this ultimately locks me into only making my window openings 4x8, due to the way the texture resolutions are, which would be really samey and would require me to change A LOT of the mission to accommodate. Not good. There's probably a way to make it fit for, say, the 4x6 or 3x7 window openings I used, but I wouldn't know how to do that, especially so stock. And have you seen how the sides of these secret doors look when they have textures applied to them? That's the worst!

    Lastly - Perhaps there is a reason for them being open? Maybe a certain smell was unbearable, or perhaps the one nobleman got a little too drunk, and needed a window open for a bit, and then passed out! Did you notice some of the wine bottles nearby the sleeping bodies? Just use a bit of imagination :P !


    Thank you very much for this thought provoking discussion! I love hearing opinions like these and using them as an excuse to discuss game design. And again, thank you for the kind words.
    Thank you! It was really nice to read that, and, it also totally makes sense to me. I mean it. Now I see the design decisions with a certainly different eye.

  18. #43
    New Member
    Registered: Feb 2019
    39xx loot collected and 4 trinkets stolen. Good map, not very challenging but pleasant for sure.

  19. #44
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    This mission has been updated to v1.1 to add support for French translations (it contains no bug fixes).

  20. #45
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2017
    Location: Sleeping
    i really liked this one. everything was well connected and overall not too spaced out to the point of exhaustion. definitely a big step up over your last entrant. i'd really love to see more from you!

  21. #46
    New Member
    Registered: Oct 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by pukey brunster View Post
    I love missions like this that feel warm and welcoming to the player, and remind us to just to have fun. The small, snowy city was cozy, lively and fun to explore, with good humor & references throughout.

    Very nice work! You captured that classic Thief FM feel, while also giving it fresh style.
    this is exactly how i felt, but the girl with the awesome name expressed it much better than i could!! i really enjoyed this mission... it was somehow low-stress and comfy and classic...

    also, Psych0sis!! wow you grew a ton from your dark project anniversary contest entry!! i can't wait to see more missions from you!

  22. #47
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkMax View Post
    Finally some good news.
    That was good news?

  23. #48
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    This was a pretty decent romp, Psych0sis. A solid 7/10. The cathedral is the highlight for sure, with it's somewhat confusing, yet interesting layout. The rest of the city was quite nicely made, though I do miss some clear landmarks to navigate by. Most of the streets and buildings were very similar, and pretty much all of the entrances that weren't doors were open windows via pipes or wooden planters. I didn't play your entry for the TDP contest, so I can't comment on improvements. Very nice briefing and conversations though. Impressive!

    I think I missed a trinket somewhere, I only found 3 in the cathedral (chisel, book and war hammer), then 2 others elsewhere in the city. Where is the 6th one? I ended with 4992 out of 5684. Do you mind if I uploaded and shared the loot list? Thought I'd check first.

    Great work!
    Klatremus' Supreme Thief Site - Walkthroughs, Loot Lists & Ghost Reports
    Let's Supreme Ghost Thief - YouTube Channel with Thief Let's Plays

  24. #49
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2017
    Location: France
    Go for it

    2 things to note: First you'll find the last trinket in a secret area, check out the room next to the library with the shrine. Then, Unfortunately I made a mistake and made a 10 loot plate unfrobbable, so do not fret if you end 10 loot short of 100%!

  25. #50
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    Found it, and the 3 pieces of loot in there! Current loot list is HERE. I feel like I missed a whole building somewhere. Like I said earlier, since many of the buildings look the same, its tough to realize which ones I haven't been to. Several times I was sure I found a new one, only to realize I had been there several times.

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