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Thread: TMA20AC Mission — Ten Little Taffers (Mar 24, 2020)

  1. #76
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: ...nothing but flames...
    Cheela, As Galaer said, the lockbox in the Overlook Lounge, and the book riddle are only available in the Garrett difficulty.
    As Bumbleson, you need to find a different key.

    As Garrett or Bumbleson, the sooner you find the evidence and the escape key, the sooner you can prevent any more murders.

  2. #77
    Member
    Registered: May 2016
    On Garret difficulty, I ended up locking the constable in the basement and the Brother now stands in the hallway. I hope I didn't break anything? Other guests are dead.

  3. #78
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: ...nothing but flames...
    No, nothing is broken. You still have to find evidence of who the murderer is, and how they were planning to escape.

  4. #79
    Member
    Registered: May 2016
    Hmmm, ok. I was able to knock the Hammerite out without failing the objective. If he's the killer, it should not assume my character knows that.

    Also the constable is alerting when she gets to the landing by the one guest that fell onto the statue. Here's a save: https://drive.google.com/open?id=13H...R6mwo8VTc4sfj2

  5. #80
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: ...nothing but flames...
    Well, the objective is to not attack or alert any innocent guests, and the murderer isn't exactly innocent. Although you didn't know that, you got lucky.

    The other guests only notice Garrett, so if Brenda is alerted, it is probably due to something you did. Or, it's just a dark engine quirk - that's always possible.

  6. #81
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    The concept of Ten Little Taffers is unusual and ambitious. The scenario reminded me of the T1 classic Returning A Favor. Like others in this thread, I think it could be made into something really great with some tweaking.

    Having a mission in the TMA20AC that is not set in the City was nice. A hotel next to a large waterfall was a pleasant change of scenery.

    I recommend playing this on Garrett difficulty first.

    Garrett:
    Finished in 1 hour and 31 minutes with 2333 of 3000 total loot. Gerard was the killer.
    This was the best of the three difficulty levels. It took me a while until I realized you are basically on a timer as the guests get killed on by one. Seeing mutilated bodies appear as the hotel got more and more quiet was tense. I needed a hint for the book puzzle because I did not realize the order in which you read them is the puzzle. I had heard the clicks, but triggering a mechanism by reading a book did not seem like a possibility to me. The safe I found purely by accident when I tried to frob something else in Capezza‘s office. One question to Balboa: How do the kill triggers work? Gerard patrols through the hotel and whenever he is at the location of another guest and when the player is not nearby, that guest is killed?


    Bumbleson:
    Finished in 39 minutes. Masterson was the killer.
    Bumbleson freaking out about each dead body he discovers was hilarious. I also liked how valuables are disappearing from the rooms as time moves on. I was wondering if I would at some point get to meet Garrett.


    Owen:
    Finished in 36 minutes. Owen was the killer and replaced Horridge.
    Owen's happy whistling as he is killing victims is awesome. It made me want to play another mission in which you play as a whistling murderer. On the other hand, I would have preferred killing all guests the same way they died on the Garrett and Bumbleson difficulty levels. I too was very surprised you cannot kill Bumbleson by trapping him inside the steam room.


    Bugs:
    On Garrett difficulty, the mission fails when you step into the light in front of the door leading to the storage room. This might be intended, but it feels like a bug.
    Also, if you mantle onto the cupboard next to the body of Katya Signoli, you float in the air above the cupboard.

  7. #82
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: ...nothing but flames...
    Username, thanks for the commentary.

    Garrett: The clue to the book puzzle was in Gerard's bedroom. The clicks you heard were a suggestion of my excellent beta testers.
    The kill sequence was pre-determined, but as random as I could make it. The mission kept a tally of the number of new rooms/corridors you visited for the first time. Once a specific threshold was exceeded, AND a victim was in the right place, AND the player was elsewhere, then they died. It worked out beautifully.

    Bumbleson: No, Garrett doesn't appear here. He is the 'perfect thief', as it were.

    Owen: Actually, there is no 'Owen'. Uther Nathaniel Owen is the pseudonym for the killer (per the Agatha Christie novel), as in U.N.Owen, or UNKNOWN. In the third difficulty, it happens to be Gov. Horridge.

    And, yes, it is possible (within reason) for Owen to kill everyone the same way in all three difficulties.
    Poison Katya with an apple.
    Freeze Fretus in the freezer.
    Drop the Countess onto the statue.
    Bash Carlysle with a wine bottle in the wine cellar.
    Shoot Erlen with an arrow on the archery range.
    Bludgeon Gerard with a Hammer icon at the Chapel (sadly, not IN the Chapel - last minute pathfinding issues I'm afraid).
    Kill Dorcas with the meat cleaver in the kitchen (and no, you can't cut her head off - come on).
    Drown Brenda in the pool.
    Kill Bumbleson in the Steam Room.
    The last two I leave as an exercise for the reader. It is absolutely possible, but difficult and tricksie.


    The problem with the light at the entrance to the shipping dock is, indeed a bug (if you don't enter the mansion through there at first).
    The issue with the cupboards in the ballroom I didn't know about till now. At any rate, all of the known bugs have been fixed in the maintenance release (after the contest ends).


    But, if you take into account that I hadn't touched Dromed in ten bloody years, this mission is almost a miracle. True, it may not be in anyone's top three (it's not in my top three, to be honest), but it is exactly what I tried to build. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

  8. #83
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2008
    Location: Poland
    Oooooh, now I understand; the three levels do not start at the same point in the story, do they.
    That's why on Garrett the bridge explodes right after you cross it.

    Does that mean that on Garrett the killing starts immediately after you begin to lurk around the house? The way of sequencing the killings you described is indeed very clever, but I wish it triggered a bit later - in my gameplay I was so unlucky/had such bad eyesight that I first found all the bodies and only then the diary which obviously spoiled a lot of fun. Yeah, I always manage to break things.


    I loved the atmosphere of the house, anyway. Your mission was very enjoyable, thanks.

  9. #84
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: ...nothing but flames...
    Everything starts at the same point in all three difficulties. The bridge is blown, then Katya is poisoned. From there, things can happen somewhat differently.

  10. #85
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2013
    Location: Mexico
    I must say this was a very unique FM. It was very interesting to see the events unfold from different viewpoints. I played in the correct order and once I got to play Bumbleson, I was surprised to see things had changed, noticing the killer wasn't Gerard this time, it kept things fresh. Being the killer was pretty fun as well, it took away the feeling that you were in danger, until the last moment, when you encounter Garrett. I don't remember playing an FM like this before, it's amazing what you were able to acomplish with the scripting, and I feel the concept can be improved even more, congratulations Balboa .
    P.S. The way the loot around the mansion kept disappearing as time passed when you played as Bumbleson and Owen, was a nice detail :P
    Last edited by Vikare; 12th Apr 2020 at 16:26.

  11. #86
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2015

    Fretus

    Playing as Owen I can't find Fretus anywhere, he's the last one on my list
    I think I never saw him on the 2 first missions, is this a bug ? Where can he be ?

  12. #87
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2016
    Location: The Mystic's Keep
    Quote Originally Posted by Pavis View Post
    Playing as Owen I can't find Fretus anywhere, he's the last one on my list
    I think I never saw him on the 2 first missions, is this a bug ? Where can he be ?
    I'm not sure if this is also a bug, but when I played he managed to kill himself in the freezer without me having to lift a finger. I only had to see he was there to check off the objective.

  13. #88
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: ...nothing but flames...
    Not a bug at all. Fretus dies in the freezer, just as the killer planned. Read the journal that the killer(s) kept.

  14. #89
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2015
    Quote Originally Posted by Balboa View Post
    Not a bug at all. Fretus dies in the freezer, just as the killer planned. Read the journal that the killer(s) kept.
    Sorry, I didn't catch the hint in the diary nor did I check the freezer
    All is working fine!

  15. #90
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: West Seattle
    I had the same problem as Woodsie1 on Owen, where the doors wouldn't close to start the mission, while using FMselector. I switched to Angelloader and it proceeded as expected.
    Now, after trying to replicate the deaths in earlier iterations, I need to kill Garrett!

  16. #91
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2007
    Location: Krull Island, in the pub
    I'm stuck on Garrett difficulty.

    Since this is a rather compact map, I can say I've pretty much been everywhere. I also have the new objective about having to find out who is the killer. My problem is: where else to go if I've been everywhere? I'm going around in circles, all I see is my previously opened doors and looted rooms. I even checked the spa area.

    Thank you!

  17. #92
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: ...nothing but flames...
    ticky, as you say, it's a compact map, and there are only ten possible suspects.

    First, you can eliminate anyone who has already died. Unless you possible killed the killer.

    Second, of those that are left, follow them around, see where they go.

    Third, since they are all guests, the bedrooms are the most likely place to have hid incriminating evidence.

    Fourth, check high and low. Especially low.

    Blatant hint: 9

  18. #93
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2007
    Location: Krull Island, in the pub
    Well, thank you, and yes. But Gerard didn't write about his escape plan, I think He only wrote about how cool is to blow up the bridge.. Also, do I have to find the writing about the escape route, or the escape route itself? It's so funny to not find something in such a small mission...

  19. #94
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: ...nothing but flames...
    Gerard did leave a clue in his bedroom, a list.

    Read any good books, lately?

    Follow the list, and you may figure out what "out by nine" refers to. The escape route!

  20. #95
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2007
    Location: Krull Island, in the pub
    Quote Originally Posted by Balboa View Post
    Gerard did leave a clue in his bedroom, a list.

    Read any good books, lately?

    Follow the list, and you may figure out what "out by nine" refers to. The escape route!
    Wow, this guy is a mastermind. From his "own" locker, he flees away (except He's dead by now...).

    I'll go for the other two difficulties. I hope they are different enough to worth the replay.

  21. #96
    The scripting work that went into making these three new missions is pretty impressive. Best to play in the order of Garrett (entree), Bumbleson (fruity salad course), and Owen (what a wickedly fun dessert)! I enjoyed the unique gameplay you gave us with this one, and all the creative, little touches you included throughout.

  22. #97
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by Balboa View Post
    Woodsie1, On Owen and Bumbleson, the bridge should blow up during the Victrola monologue. To kill the guests, you need to find enough weapons. Most can simply be thrown at a guest to kill them (blunt force trauma). The safe code is the same as for Garrett, but there is nothing in there you need or can even use.

    uncadonego, The names on the list get crossed off as you find the bodies. If some are crossed off, but you haven't seen the body yet, that's a problem that no one saw in testing. One of the names is the killer.
    I might have the same problem Woodsie1 had. I'm playing as Owen, and I don't hear Karras, and the bridge doesn't blow up. Right now I have a lot of stuff in my inventory but none of it seems to be effective.

    There is a gate just beyond the bridge, and I can walk in between both doors without opening the one that is frobbable. Not a big deal though, but I thought I would just mention it.

  23. #98
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Vikare View Post
    P.S. The way the loot around the mansion kept disappearing as time passed when you played as Bumbleson and Owen, was a nice detail :P
    Whaaaaaaa? mindblown.gif

  24. #99
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Balboa View Post
    But, if you take into account that I hadn't touched Dromed in ten bloody years, this mission is almost a miracle. True, it may not be in anyone's top three (it's not in my top three, to be honest), but it is exactly what I tried to build. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
    Yeah well it is in my top three! It was just that much fun!!

  25. #100
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: ...nothing but flames...
    john9818a, Woodsie1 fixed his problem by installing a new gen.osm. You could download this version and put in your Thief2 folder. It's not that his gen.osm was bad or different, but that there was possibly an issue with its links to the dark engine, and reinstalling gen fixed his setup. Hopefully, that will fix your problem.

    I don't know why the LC gate is resizing itself for some people. It's not something I saw myself (and it is pretty obvious) and it was never mentioned by any of my exhausted beta testers.
    I take that back. Those gate doors were one of the first objects I created in TLT, long before I had fully relearned Dromed, but never resized the physics. What a noob.
    Last edited by Balboa; 19th Apr 2020 at 10:11. Reason: What a noob.

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