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Thread: T2 FM: Heist at Hilbert's Highrise Hotel (May 9, 2020)

  1. #76
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2008
    Location: Much-Grovelling-In-The-Maw
    @Urumo: Yes, someone has it, although from the state they're in, it's doubtful they'll be using it again.
    Last edited by urgrue; 10th May 2020 at 15:09.

  2. #77
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    @Psych0sis
    Very fair critique, I will agree. But I'm pleased to hear how much you enjoyed the puzzles! Indeed, anyone who dislikes puzzle missions should probably steer clear of this one.

    @Urumo, the real puzzle is how on Earth did you get into Hilbert's office before solving the Penthouse gate puzzle?!?!

  3. #78
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2008
    Location: Much-Grovelling-In-The-Maw
    Quote Originally Posted by trefoilknot View Post
    Indeed, anyone who dislikes puzzle missions should probably steer clear of this one.
    Or else, they might find that this one will prompt a change of mind about such missions.

  4. #79
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2003
    Location: Switzerland
    trefoilknot:
    sorry, I didn't realise that I already had solved that Kevel-puzzle (it was so obvious, I almost did it automatically. Yet others discussed this problem back and forth, so I thought I had missed a certain gate).

    But now I still don't understand, how to enter the gated area in the west wing. In the meantime I have collected the talismans (those painting-puzzles were cool!)

    greetings!

  5. #80
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    It sounds like you just missed the key next to Brouwer's corpse in the Aleph Stone exhibit.

    And greetings to you, too!

  6. #81
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2003
    Location: Switzerland
    Oh, I missed an area completely. The Aleph Stone exhibit, aahhm, where is that and how to get there ??

    Please, a hint, please !!

  7. #82
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    It's in the Gallery of Mathematical Curiosities--when you come down the stairs from the penthouse to the Gallery, take a left and go through the pickable door.

    The exhibit is locked, but I think you'll find a way in...

  8. #83
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2003
    Location: Switzerland
    thank you very much, trefoilknot - I'm on my way

    Cheerio

  9. #84
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2011
    Location: Netherlands
    Goodevening, having a blast with this great fm.
    I think i found a bug, i`m in the office with the cubes, i think i have the right code but the safe won`t open???
    Any help please...

  10. #85
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    Hi T-Linkz,

    So glad you're enjoying it! It's quite possible you're right. Have you moved the cubes quite a number of times, and are any of them a little crooked?

    If so, this is a recently discovered bug, which will be fixed momentarily. In the meantime, if you have a recent save from before you started messing with the cubes, fire that up, and enter the proper combo without a lot of extraneous button presses.

    Sorry for the inconvenience

    UPDATE: Issue fixed in v1.05. The cubes now only turn right, eliminating the issue where they become crooked from repeated left turns.
    Last edited by trefoilknot; 10th May 2020 at 20:21. Reason: Updated to 1.05

  11. #86
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2003
    Location: Switzerland
    @trefoilknot
    Now I have most of the important things done. Thank you for your help. Getting the black Stone was funny - some paintings can be really useful !

    But before I end the game I would like to solve some other questions:
    1). there is a locked door near the main entrance; it is at the top of a very narrow staircase. Where can I find the key to this door?

    2). I did not solve the color-button-puzzle in the administration area. I read about hints to this puzzle that can be found in the closed platonic gem exhibit. How do I get there? In the anteroom is an openable window and there are convenient gargoyles outside, but the gap a bit farther on is too big, I can't manage to jump to the next group in order to reach the south facade where a broken window is, which could be the desired entrance ...

    3). In the Burrick Pub I returned the 8-ball and got a small reward. But the frame with the queues is still highlighting, so I guess there is something additional to find/to do?

    4). In the Hammerite exhibit are 2 locked showcases, here I'm missing also a key.

    5). Are my open questions related to the bonus objectives? (I have found 1 till now - the hotel cashbox)

    I had great fun playing this mission, and I definitely will re-play it.
    Greetings,
    urumo

  12. #87
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Completed mission at Bachelor's difficulty. Quite an interesting mission!

    Comments to the author - I don't think I finished it quite the way you intended.

    After successfully getting into the staff only area and especially the penthouse, I spent a lot of time exploring and was able to get to most of the areas through rope work, jumping puzzles, etc. including the spring, summer, and fall suites. I needed to look here (in the forums) to find the hint for the winter suite key.

    After I stopped finding new stuff for a while, I brute-forced the cubes puzzle in the office and hit the issue T-Linkz most recently reported, but I would go between one setting of the cubes and the next and quickly frob at the safe while it briefly opened and closed and successfully got the spectacles and instructions.

    From there, I visited the muse in the four seasons, figured out that combo, and got the four season talismans and placed them and got the pedestal set up before I ever got the Aleph Stone. (At this point, I hit the bug that if you use the keyring on the pedestal it either goes up or down forever. Then, I looked around and found the intended route, first to the 8-ball, then to the Aleph Stone, and realized the solution for getting the Aleph Stone without being trapped, after the pedestal was ready.

    Just wanted to let you know. I found only one bonus objective (the cash box.) Great mission!

    - prjames

    P.S. I also finished the mission with Urumo's questions 1, 2, 4, and 5 in the post above.
    Last edited by prjames; 10th May 2020 at 18:46.

  13. #88
    I'm currently stuck going in circles in this mission. I can't figure out the next place to proceed.

    I've already been to the Aleph Stone Exhibit .

    However, I can't find the place mentioned in the note where there is a supposed security gate in the hotel.

    Reading through the comments, I assume this place is the West Wing?

    Can someone enlighten me where this place is?

  14. #89
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2008
    Location: Much-Grovelling-In-The-Maw
    To get to the west wing, go back to the spiral staircase, ascend it, and keep looking up. Eventually, you will see somewhere else you can go.

  15. #90
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2006
    Location: Antarctica
    Finished this bad boy yesterday, absolutely loved it

  16. #91
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    @Urumo and prjames

    A lot of those questions are interrelated (and yes, related to bonus objectives).

    The key to that locked room is inside the room! You'll need to find a way onto the balcony. Nothing to rope arrow, but perhaps some other way...?

    The jump to the Platonic Crystals exhibit is tricky, but can be done with normal thief mechanics. To make it a bit forgiving, you can use the diagonal strafe-run technique to get a bit more speed into the jump.

    @Jack Lee- thanks! So pleased to hear that!

  17. #92
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    I completely missed the poem in the wastebasket, and I'm glad my speculative attempt at a solution wasn't the right one:

    I thought for a moment you might want me to melt the corpse with the LimeAway because he'd swallowed it

  18. #93
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Germany
    Finished it in 3:32 on Expert with 10,200 loot, 4 bonus goals and 6 secrets.

    Lots of spoilers ahead!

    I took a funny shortcut:
    When using the dial in the room for the talismans my idea was to approximate the images of the seasons with the shapes.
    Winter (snowflake) = WHEEL of time => a circle, obviously
    Spring = GEARS => hexagon (or possibly the pentagon, but the hexagon is more "even")
    Autumn = ARROW => triangle (resembling an arrowhead)
    As I couldn't immediately come up with a good idea for the "sands" of Summer I simply tried all the shapes...
    Of course I discovered the skies in the four paintings practically after this, combing the rooms! Ha ha!


    Critique:
    A terrific mission. Very well done!
    Certainly a nice mix of different puzzle types which also were very fair.
    At first I also thought the mission would have oodles of marble floors but it was quite tolerable.
    I fully expected the security system come back to life at some point but nothing happened. Phew! ;-)
    All in all a very player-friendly mission and one of my favorites of 2020.

    Highlights:
    - The "teleporter glasses" (it really is nothing else and if you understand this you have two puzzle solutions at hand)
    - The spiral staircase. When I discovered that I was reminded of the double helix staircase in Château de Chambord!
    - The opening of return ways after the player got access (keys inside, crystal exhibition gate and especially the west wing). Very player-friendly, again. ;-)

    Areas of improvement:
    - Many doors can't be opened. It felt a bit too linear, especially at the beginning.
    - The solutions are often similar or identical (aleph stone & Menger cube // access via the facade).
    - The general layout sometimes doesn't really make any sense in the real world and it sometimes felt that you wanted to give the player access (wine cellar ceiling // ventilation grids).
    - And some suboptimal details:
    ---> The desk of Riemann with his nameplate not facing the door (or at least the sides) but the windows above the reception instead (nobody would do that in real life). And no guest chair?
    ---> The light switches on the wrong side of the doors (staff offices). Unrealistic and a bit annoying.
    ---> Why the "rewired" alarm switch? Too easy (thanks to the readable) but made no sense to me.

    Stuff I missed (AFAIK):
    - The object in "question 3" above and would like a stronger hint than "a lot of these questions are interrelated". :-/

  19. #94
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    So glad you had fun, Calibrator! And I agree with many of the proposed areas for improvement. I'm learning as I go

    I'm not sure I understand the shortcut you took, since those shapes don't correspond to the correct seasons, per your method. But it sounds like it all worked out, and you also discovered the intended approach. All-in-all, my mission is not particularly robust against brute force solutions (e.g., only 256 combos for the cube locks), but I'm not too shaken if a player uses an unconventional technique---long as it doesn't break anything; I'm not trying to make a cryptographically sound FM over here!

    In terms of unopenable doors, there are very, very few. (I suppose *technically* there are countably infinitely many of them, if you include the guest room hallways). But AFAIR the only unopenable doors (excluding textures) are those in the Seasons paintings, since DromEd would have gotten real mad at me if I tried to make four copies of the entire map! Any door that frobs can be opened somehow. Some of them are trickier than others, of course.

    I'll be honest, I hadn't even intended the cutoff floor in the Staff Only Area to be used as a passageway--but whatever works! I just liked the open aesthetic the cutout created, realism be taffed!

    This is embarrassing, but I didn't even realize the pool cues frob It must have been inherited from their parents' properties. They serve no gameplay purpose. I'll FrobInert them for the next patch

  20. #95
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Germany
    With doors that can't be opened I meant the unfrobbable "texture doors". Too many of those is a bit unrealistic in a "mansion-type" mission (in a city mission it's a necessity). IMHO of course.
    Thanks for answering the hint plea - I can sleep well now!

  21. #96
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    Quote Originally Posted by Calibrator View Post
    With doors that can't be opened I meant the unfrobbable "texture doors"
    I ran out of cells because I'm a wasteful builder

  22. #97
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Finished it on Expert last night - cleared a couple of bonus objectives and a few secrets, to boot.

    My thoughts:
    • A really fascinating mission, it had me glued to my seat for the 2-3 hours I played it for!
    • The keychain and lockpicks really helped with decluttering the inventory, though I really wished there was a way to take a note of what keys we had picked up or had - perhaps a notes page that lists and updates when you pick up a key?
    • I was really pleasantly surprised by the puzzles, as I found them to be neither too difficult, nor too easy - a lot of the puzzles work on [light spoilers?] a sort of 'aha!' principle, where the puzzle is first presented, and then recontextualized by a piece of information I often found soon after. It felt like a perfect balance of challenge - I especially loved realizing thatthe note to Kevel gave a reasonable 'in-universe' hint to discovering several things, although I do wish it wasn't placed so early on in the mission. Another great moment was discovering the purpose of the painting in Brouwers office - I was left with such a stupid grin on my face after I figured out how to steal the cube without getting an electric shock!
    • I was really impressed by the environmental details, particularly the infinite stairs and fall. I ended up climbing those stairs just to see how far they would go, before I realized what you had done with them! I had no idea the engine could handle that, nor how you did it, but well done!
    • Outside the puzzles, I felt the moment-to-moment gameplay wasn't the strongest. Others have mentioned this, but there isn't a huge amount of detail in guard patrols or the areas themselves, but it's not a huge detriment. After all, the main draw and, I believe, purpose of the mission is to provide an interesting challenge with layers of thematic detail and environmental storytelling, challenging the player to observe and pay attention.
    • ENDING SPOILERS: As you had already set this up as the first part of a series, the cliffhanger ending was not surprising, but it did leave me wanting more! I desperately wanted the mission to last just a few more minutes, which I feel is a great sign for how effective this mission is as a setup. Well done!


    Overall, I felt this was a really great mission and a perfect setup for whatever comes next - you've got me hooked on the concept, and I'm looking forward to the next chapter.

  23. #98
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    Wow, I really couldn't ask for a better review- thanks, Sidori!

    Your remark about the puzzles (that 'aha' principle) is exactly what I was striving for.

    I think you'll like the next chapter, but fair warning: it could be a long ways off...

  24. #99
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2011
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by trefoilknot View Post
    Hi T-Linkz,

    So glad you're enjoying it! It's quite possible you're right. Have you moved the cubes quite a number of times, and are any of them a little crooked?

    If so, this is a recently discovered bug, which will be fixed momentarily. In the meantime, if you have a recent save from before you started messing with the cubes, fire that up, and enter the proper combo without a lot of extraneous button presses.

    Sorry for the inconvenience

    UPDATE: Issue fixed in v1.05. The cubes now only turn right, eliminating the issue where they become crooked from repeated left turns.
    So i can start all over again...??
    because i don`t have a save on that moment...?

  25. #100
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    Can you PM me, T-Linkz? We can probably find a solution that will work for you, depending on how crooked the cubes became. In the initial release there was a bug whereby repeated left turns would make the cubes misaligned. (For whatever reason they would rotate 90 degrees right, and 90+a tiny bit left.) This bug is not present in v1.05 onward.

    However this would only cause a problem if turned left over and over and over (which shouldn’t happen in normal gameplay unless trying to brute force the solution). PM me a screenshot of the situation and I can guide you on how best to proceed. If you didn’t try to brute force them open, then I think it’s unlikely that this bug is the issue you’re facing. I will likely have a workable solution for you, regardless.
    Last edited by trefoilknot; 11th May 2020 at 21:09.

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