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Thread: Screen art and racism

  1. #1
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die

    Screen art and racism

    Interesting turn of events following BLM - a bunch of TV shows being removed from various streaming services, and some celebs now apologising for past "racist endeavours".

    Gone With the Wind has been removed from HBO, pending addition of a message.
    League of Gentlemen and The Mighty Boosh have been taken off Netflix, for use of "blackface".
    Little Britain too.

    UK TV celebs Ant + Dec and Keith Lemon have made apologies, the latter crying whilst doing it (I think this is PR nonsense myself).

    Who is next?

    Will Ali G survive this? That's a complex one

    And will Robert Downey Junior finally have to pay for the crime of playing Staff Sergeant Lincoln Osiris?

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    I'm actually against this, are we just gonna whitewash history? Art is a function of its time, Gone with the Wind is a classic piece of cinematography, is it racist, hell yes but it is an indicator of the times it was made, a reminder of what used to be. How about instead of erasing art, we start with the shit that caused systemic racism in the first place, capitalism and the white powerbase that benefits from it.

  3. #3
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    No art is being erased. You can still buy and watch DVDs of Little Brittain and Gone With The Wind. HBO and Netflix don't have any obligation to stream certain titles if they're feeling icky about them.

    I agree that the whole capitalist system is a much bigger problem, but this isn't an either/or issue.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    It's revisionist history. Blanking out the media that doesn't line up with societies present day left aligned values, and not factoring in the values which existed at the time of it's production.

    When was the last time you saw "Song of the South" on TV hmm? Loved that movie as a kid.

  5. #5
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Yeah, I dunno. The onus isn't on the past to revise itself. If it means adding a message about certain works being important but still problematic, and that the network shows they're trying to do better by the community -- I think that acknowledgment is more important than pretending these things didn't and don't exist.

    Having said that, Little Britain isn't exactly a landmark work of art. I remember laughing at the first bunch of episodes, but that was slowly replaced with a feeling of encroaching horror at the sheer inanity of it all as time went on.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    Its not being erased YET, but its the slipperiest of slopes.

  7. #7
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    The stars of Gone With the Wind aren't going to be affected by this. Anyway, it'll be back one they've added whatever message it is.

    But the stars of modern stuff will surely get some backlash, even if the offending show is only taken off Netflix. I imagine there are some worried people right now. RDJ will be well aware of what is going on, I'm sure.

    You can still buy and watch DVDs of Little Brittain and Gone With The Wind. HBO and Netflix don't have any obligation to stream certain titles if they're feeling icky about them.
    For now.

    I imagine other services will feel pressure to do the same, and shops will feel pressure to stop selling things that have been, ahem, blacklisted, won't they?

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    I'm somewhere between henke and Sulphur. If all these works just vanished, I think it'd be a disservice on many levels, but right now the idea that the likes of Gone with the Wind could just vanish is a strawman. By and large I do prefer for these media to be available somewhere, with proper contextualisation (as HBO is planning to do with GwtW), but I understand any content providers who say that it isn't their job to provide access in the first place.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    If we revise and delete history then we stand to learn nothing from it. The point of media (from a historical standpoint) is to show the values of the times when it was produced. If you judge only by societies views on right and wrong of today, then how are we any better than ISIS when they went around destroying historical artifacts since it clashed with their beliefs?

    All media should be saved for future generations. The good and the bad. Good and bad is so subjective.

    There was this bit in the 70's movie "Rollerball" where all of society was ruled by corporations (but not cyberpunk), and all books had been outlawed / destroyed, with all of human history and literature transferred to this super computer. Problem being, that whatever the corporate higher ups didn't like got deleted accidentally on purpose in computer glitches. It's a slippery slope once you start ruling on what isn't and is to be kept. However we do have the internet and there is absolutely nothing stopping us from saving and keeping the media ourselves to preserve it. But then what if that is deemed against the law, much the same as pirating?
    Last edited by icemann; 11th Jun 2020 at 10:14.

  10. #10
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Well, obviously it's subjective. The point is that racism is bad regardless of subjective opinions on quality. I don't really see acknowledging that on products of their time and place as a problem while letting viewers access them, but if a content provider does away with hosting something like a thinly veiled racist propaganda piece/episode because it's morally reprehensible, that's their call to make, and IMO the right one.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Absolutely. It's like the whole current discussion about statues being taken down, and the ridiculous argument that this is some kind of negation or silencing of history. More people know about Edward Colston's involvement in the slave trade now that his statue is resting comfortably in Bristol Harbour than before.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2001
    Location: OldDark Detox Clinic
    I have a collection on DVD's of very old cartoons. Much of it is racially insensitive stuff. There is a disclaimer at the beginning of every DVD that these works are a product of a different time and reflect that.

    Also, yeah, Netflix can show anything it wants. People will vote with their wallets.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    history has always been silenced and negated, that isnt anything new

  14. #14
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    I think what Warner did with their old Looney Tunes is the way to go. Acknowledge the issues contained therein by addressing them in a disclaimer, but otherwise let them be.

    As much as I hate leaning on the "...but it's HHIIIISSSTOOORRRY" argument, due to it being grossly misused and abused to defend some pretty shitty stuff, these cartoons and movies are our history. We shouldn't hide them away or destroy them.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Does this mean that HBO and Netflix are under any obligation to show them on their platforms?

  16. #16
    Of course not, but if that is the only reason they are being pulled, then it should legitimately open them to criticism, and the move should be questioned.

    What's next, are they going to pull The Godfather for the way it portrays Italian Americans?

  17. #17
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Nope. It's their service, privately owned. They can air or cancel whatever they want, and are under no obligation to pander to anyone they don't want to pander to.

    Though we can bitch about their reasoning all we want to, set up petitions to draw attention to whatever issue we take exception to, and choose to spend our money elsewhere if they continue to ignore us.

    It's the American way!

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    its incremental steps, first netflix, then fucking public libraries. A year later and its fulltime simpsons reruns on every single media outlet.

    is this really the way you want the world to end?
    Last edited by PigLick; 11th Jun 2020 at 19:57.

  19. #19
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    No, that's a slippery slope.

    Right now, we're in the midst of a little social upheaval, and we have people on all sides of the issue kneejerking, and overreacting about everything. I can almost guarantee you that by this time next year, we'll have Gone with the Wind and the rest back on the streaming services, with the only change being a few disclaimers added to them beforehand.

  20. #20
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    NO DOUBLE POSTING!

    When you double post or more, than means more work for me. And I hate work!

    Also, I'm well aware of the hypocrisy I'm putting on display here, but I have the power, and intend to abuse it.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    I can almost guarantee you that by this time next year, we'll have Gone with the Wind and the rest back on the streaming services, with the only change being a few disclaimers added to them beforehand.
    Which is what I'm hoping will happen, more or less. (Instead of the disclaimers, I'd prefer e.g. an intro by a film historian.) But I'm also perfectly okay with the likes of Leni Riefenstahl's propaganda pieces being curated and made available by film historians* but not being on the Netflix catalogue, however much she contributed to the aesthetics of film. And I don't think that Birth of a Nation needs to be streamed on Amazon Prime because otherwise, will no one think of history?

    *Criterion has a collection 100 Years of Olympic Films which includes Riefenstahl. They provide information and context and approaches. I don't think there was a big hullabaloo, because it's done in a responsible way that is sensitive to what these artefacts are and what they represent.

  22. #22
    They've already announced that the movie will be back next week, with some type of introduction. Of course, they wouldn't want to miss out on all that revenue since GWTW is now the #1 bestselling movie on Amazon.

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    ah Mr Bezos so thats your game

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2011
    Location: Ferrol - Spain
    Everbody knows that yellow race has an IQ superior to white race and no problem.
    Everybody knows that white race has an IQ superior to black race and I´m a racist.
    And now I realize thanks to a bunch of ignorant and idiots that Cristobal Colón was a racist and a slaver.

  25. #25
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    The fuck?

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