TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: COSAS M3:9YS Design Document and M5:SR Prototype

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis

    COSAS M3:9YS Design Document and M5:SR Prototype

    Quote Originally Posted by theImmortalThief View Post
    CORE TEAM - The core team of CoSaS M3:9YS (and select other missions):

    • Anarchic Fox - Writer (MX/9YS), Mission Design (MX/9YS/SR), Playtesting (GatI/MX)
    • Dominus - Artist (MX/9YS)
    • Finial - Architecture (MX)
    • The Immortal Thief - Director (9YS), Mission Design (9YS)
    • Digital Nightfall - Director (GatI/MX/SR), Mission Design (MX/9YS)
    • Mokkis - Architecture (GatI/SR)
    • Nameless Voice - Custom Scripts (MX/9YS)
    • Sogax - Audio Design (MX/9YS)
    • Sevenyfour – Custom Object Design (9YS)
    • Yametha - Mission Design (MX/9YS)
    • Special thanks go to Sliptip and DrK for design consultation and textures, and to Wynne for care and support.
    I've secured the necessary permissions, so here we go. At the bottom of the post are links to two files.

    One is the 9YS (Nine Year Sleep) design document; or rather, the last 9YS design document I was involved with. I've edited it and added new material, visible as underlined text.

    The other is the SR (Switching Rails) prototype. After GatI, Team CoSaS split its efforts. Digi got to work on MX, while I worked on SR, as it seemed easiest to finish. Later, it became clear that we had to focus on one mission, so we all switched to MX. The file below represents the latest version of SR. It's very crude, but I was fond of it. In particular, there's something in the yard I'm very proud of. However, it might not display properly in NewDark, since it relies heavily on the fact that the Dark Engine is a raycasting engine.

    My burnout is the stuff of legends. The last time I played Thief was to beta test MX. Even the thought of playing is painful. As a result, if anyone can record their playthrough of SR, I would appreciate it. I would very much like to see those streets again, a decade and a half later.

    This is a joyful moment, but also a stressful one, so I will not reply in this thread until a week has passed.

    http://barknet.org/anarchicfox/9YS_Design_Doc.rtf

    http://barknet.org/anarchicfox/SRFox-8-17-03.zip

    Previous CoSaS threads:

    CoSaS - Gathering at the Inn Released - 11.2.2003
    COSAS 2 Mission X - Available Now ... 8-15-08
    Updated FM: Mission X version 1.13 - Walkthrough, Lootlist, Lexicon, Trivia, Album
    Updated FM: Mission X v1.14 (NewDark update) Released!
    CoSaS 3 - The Nine Year Sleep - Content Release (3-14-2014)

    There's no thread for it, but Gathering at the Bar, CoSaS' predecessor, was the first FM ever made (though not quite the first released). Digi and others made it to prove to Looking Glass Studios that Dromed could be used by a general audience, leading to LGS' public release of their editing tools.
    Last edited by Anarchic Fox; 14th Jun 2020 at 14:15.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    I appreciate the work and making this available, and I'm sorry about the burnout.

    Thanks for everything you've contributed over the years.

  3. #3
    L'architecte de Rocksbourg
    Registered: Nov 2005
    Location: Narbonne, France
    Many thanks for releasing this content to the public!

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Wow. This is a wonderful surprise! It's great to get a chance to see—and even play—a glimpse of what might have been. I've just played through this (in NewDark 1.27), and I definitely enjoyed it, although I couldn't finish the mission objectives; I'm not sure how much of that is due to me missing things, how much is due to original scripting not working, and how much is due to NewDark breaking things. But all that's more or less expected with anything unfinished, and I'm glad I got to play this even in this state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchic Fox View Post
    In particular, there's something in the yard I'm very proud of. However, it might not display properly in NewDark, since it relies heavily on the fact that the Dark Engine is a raycasting engine.
    If you mean the searchlights, then you'll be pleased to know that they work perfectly, even in NewDark.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchic Fox View Post
    As a result, if anyone can record their playthrough of SR, I would appreciate it. I would very much like to see those streets again, a decade and a half later.
    I record every fm that I play, as I slowly catch up on all those that were created over the two decades before I got into fms (and appropriately enough, playing Thief missions has been a huge help to me in dealing with my own severe burnout!). It's uploaded (though still processing just at the moment) and on youtube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RUpQ57CvDA

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    Okay, I'm less stressed than I thought I would be, so let's get to replying. Thanks Kerrle and DrK for the kind remarks, and thanks very much Vfig for the playthrough! I missed that neighborhood. I think the final mission objectives were bugged in the latest build. All you were supposed to do was switch the rails in the control section, then throw a lever on the train. Also, the bow was a Rube Goldberg machine that easily broke, but it did work! I think you either had to find one of the bows just laying around (there's an area of the police station you skipped), or steal one from a non-alert guard. I think losing everything when stealing a bow from an alert guard was a known bug. Indeed I'm glad to see the spotlights working correctly, though looking back on it I'm not sure why it felt like such an accomplishment. Maybe it was the hard-edged region of light?

    Finally, I was amused to see that the CoSaS curse continues: you selected the "No Hints" difficulty, and were then bewildered by the lack of hints.
    Last edited by Anarchic Fox; 13th Jun 2020 at 20:20.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2017
    Location: France
    How are you still burnt out 12 years later

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchic Fox View Post
    Finally, I was amused to see that the CoSaS curse continues: you selected the "No Hints" difficulty, and were then bewildered by the lack of hints.


    Quote Originally Posted by Psych0sis View Post
    How are you still burnt out 12 years later
    I think you need to go read up on burnout and ptsd before you put your other foot in your mouth too.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: UK
    What a tasty treat and then some! Just reading the design doc filled my head full of scrumptious Thiefy images and, of course, wonder at what may have been. Thank you Anarchic Fox - sorry it all affected you so badly and wish you well

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    So I tried Switching Rails. I played on Tafferpatcher 1.25. Both playthrough done on Normal difficulty (All Hints). First playthrough was without using newest scripts and second when I put newest scripts into FM folder. In both playthroughs I ended on train and couldn't make it work, which is really unfortunate.

    First Playthrough

    I have encountered a lot of problems. First conversation restart after every reload. That's really annoying. I really hoped to have blackjack to KO these guards from start and stop conversation. Guards are hyper sensitive for some reason. It's visible especially in outside Shalebridge area with moving lights. Whenever guards step on light, they go into search mode. In city patrollers can spot me from very far away if I step on light. Also items randomly drop from my inventory including loot from Shalebridge, compass, keys or even arrows.

    Speaking about equipment - grabbing bow change all water crystals into water arrows, so I can shoot water arrows. But it doesn't happen with moss crystals, fire crystal or rope arrow. They stay in inventory. I can steal more bows from guards and it looks like bug. I know our protagonist is really good thief, but stealing bows from archers hands is a bit too much. Bows go into inventory and if I have more than one, I start seeing second bow while walking.

    About objectives. In Shalebridge I get new objective slightly before reading book. Also book mention policeman taking my equipment home, but objective says that thief from Circle stole my equipment (?). I guess this readable is unfinished.

    Second Playthrough

    This time I put newest scripts into FM folder, which fixed most of bugs. I could finally obtain map, my items don't drop on floor. First conversation also restarts less frequently. In my 1st playthrough I encountered it 50-60 times, in 2nd plathrough - only 4-5 times. Also speaking about first conversation, you block every movement buttons except leaning left, which has funny effect when you get "released".

    Big change - alarm got launched in Shalebridge. This explains why guards randomly go into search mode in outside area with moving lights. Also I learned in this playthrough why guards randomly go into search mode. It's not because they see me or hear me. It's because when patroller enter certain point, invisible switch get pressed and guards go into search mode. That's such a cheap move.

    I somehow failed optional no kill objective very early in the mission. No idea how, because I had no weapons. Also being unseen objective never fails, which is weird, because with these hyper sensitive guards and guards forced to go into search mode by the switch, it's impossible to ghost this mission and complete this objective.

    Equipment. It works differently. Most of water crystals go into inventory, but some go into weapon slot. In the end I had 6 water arrows and 5 water crystals. Of course rest of arrows is in the inventory. Grabbing bow is also different. No matter what bow I picked (from archers or this one lying near front entrance) all my water crystals and items vanish. But that's not entirely true. Later I discovered that grabbing bow allows me to shoot rope arrow and nothing else.

    Overall

    I don't like it. There are 3 reasons for that:

    1. Custom bow. What's the point to change something that works perfectly fine in original game. You grab water crystal, so you can shoot water arrow. You don't need any special bow that may not work in future patches. You say it's realistic, I say it's just a game.

    2. Hyper sensitive guards with no blackjack. This was really annoying. It's not the first time it happens, but it's the first time when you are forced to ghost crazy sensitive guards. It really felt like you are forcing me to play Ultimate Difficulty Mod.

    3. These dick move traps that force guards to go into search mode. I like hard difficulty, but I don't like when it's increased in unfair way. These invisible switches are really cheap moves. I would prefer them to patrol city while they look like in search mode. This has been done in Thief 1 in Assassins mission and it was fair.

    Overall I feel like this mission is just overcomplicated. Make it more simply or just divided into few missions. Make guards less sensitive and delete these invisible switch triggers forcing guards into 2nd alert. And revert bow back to it's form from original game. I managed to get to train, but it wasn't all that fun. Though some ideas are interesting (like these moving lights or train station.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    Overall I feel like this mission is just overcomplicated. Make it more simply or just divided into few missions. Make guards less sensitive and delete these invisible switch triggers forcing guards into 2nd alert. And revert bow back to it's form from original game.
    It's an unfinished, abandoned mission, released for historical interest. As was said in the MX thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchic Fox View Post
    This mission is more than a decade old. The time for suggestions has passed.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by vfig View Post
    It's an unfinished, abandoned mission, released for historical interest. As was said in the MX thread:
    I know it's unfinished. Though I missed info about it being released only for historical interest. Actually I read first post few more times and still don't see any info about that. I assumed that work on this mission has been restarted. That's why I replied in this manner.
    Last edited by Galaer; 14th Jun 2020 at 13:32.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    I know it's unfinished. Though I missed info about it being released only for historical interest. Actually I read first post few more times and still don't see any info about that. I assumed that work on this mission has been restarted. That's why I replied in this manner.
    No, work has not been restarted. This is a pre-alpha mission, and will remain that way. However, unlike various other pre-alpha CoSaS work, I did enough work on this mission that it feels right to release it on my own.

    Due to my burnout, I cannot do any further work on this mission. Nor do I want to, as the mature vision of CoSaS involves a much different Byron.

    Anyway, I'll respond to a couple of the points. Guards do not go into search mode to punish you, they go into search mode because an agent of Nightfall has just broken into the prison and stolen your gear. The guards in the yard are periodically triggered to search, but it has nothing to do with you. As for the bow... it worked in 2003. I devised a Rube Goldberg machine inside Dromed to get it to work. However, it was a delicate machine and easily disrupted. The entirety of MX once ran off such machines. They all had to replaced with scripting. If you've ever wondered at the Fox section in the MX quotes scroll, that's where that comes from.

    For people who don't know about CoSaS, I added links to the original post. While I was at it, I added an important historical fact that most people here have forgotten.
    Last edited by Anarchic Fox; 14th Jun 2020 at 14:18.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Few questions about campaign:

    1. I entered COSAS website and noticed Mission 4 has weird name. It's called WFFF. Is this proper name? And was this supposed to be normal mission or camvator mission explaining Dante's capture?

    2. Is Mission 5 was supposed to end on train? Or it was teleporting to the next area? Just like it was done in T2X.

    3. The next missions have no info, so I'm guessing there was no work on them. Except maybe some thoughts. Mission 6 is probably search for the Circle and mission 7 was supposed to be Circle? It was written in Mission 3 read me that Byron meets Dante. Have you planned to give player control over 2 people? Just like it happened in Among Two Storms?

    I hope these questions aren't too much problem for you. Good luck regaining your health and sanity.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2014
    Location: In Cragscleft
    Anyone else have an issue with being frozen after the guards conversation at the start of the mission?

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkOne93 View Post
    Anyone else have an issue with being frozen after the guards conversation at the start of the mission?
    That's normal. You are basically forced to listen to conversation and not leave your cell too early.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2014
    Location: In Cragscleft
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    That's normal. You are basically forced to listen to conversation and not leave your cell too early.
    Ah thank you. How long are you supposed to be frozen? Because even after the two guards finish their conversation, I still can't move even after a few minutes.

    The issue I'm having is I can only move my mouse left and right and now the issue has spread over to the other FMs I have installed and in the original missions. Is their something in the game file that may cause this issue?

    UPDATE: For some reason, my keybinds got reset and once I reloaded my keybinds the issue went away.
    Last edited by TheDarkOne93; 14th Jun 2020 at 16:30.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2006
    Location: France, Paris
    Thanks for posting the mission, I loved it, it was not that hard to skip alerted guards. It's a well design and challenging mission. I liked the abandonned hammerites place full of thieves. Too bad 9YS will never see the light.

  18. #18
    @Anarchic Fox - There was some talk in the Dromed Discord about this - are any of the resources in the SR package available for others to use in their FMs if they want? The assets from the other COSAS missions were released, but we weren't sure if that applied to this mission as well.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    Yes. However, you have to credit Mokkis and Team CoSaS. (I did not contribute any new resources, and the areas I built can be recognized by their inferior textures, so I don't need specific credit.)

    People are also free to use areas from the mission as templates for areas in their own missions, as long as identical credit is given. Basically the same rules apply as to the 9YS content release.
    Last edited by Anarchic Fox; 15th Jun 2020 at 16:12.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    Finished Switching Rails, and i thought it was quite good for a pre-alpha version. Got a few questions though:

    Got 1120 out of 1294 loot. Finished all the objectives without any issues. The train worked at the end for me. Played on 'All Hints' difficulty. Found only 1 out of 3 secrets, which is probably where my missing loot is. The one I found was the secret entrance into the train station, where the thieves conversation is.

    I couldn't find a use for the janitor key or the woman's key. The janitor had a weird journal with a "hint" about heading west. Could that be a hint on where to use his key? The woman's key I assume is to her sister's house, but I couldn't find the door to her place.

    Also, there was a power station north in the Southwest Quarter where I could see 2 crystal shards and a flash bomb under a walkway. I could lean through to reach one of the crystals, but not the rest. Is there a secret entrance to get the other items?
    Klatremus' Supreme Thief Site - Walkthroughs, Loot Lists & Ghost Reports
    Let's Supreme Ghost Thief - YouTube Channel with Thief Let's Plays

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    Unfortunately, my answer is "I have no idea." I think another secret was up on the ledges in the neighborhood area, but I'm not sure. We did intend to stick more secrets in before release, though.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    Finished my second run, on No Hints difficulty (expert). I discovered no differences in loot, items, enemies or patrol paths between the difficulties, so I assume the difference lies only in what in-game hints you get.

    I had a lot more issues during this run, which I'm not sure is due to the difficulty chosen or not. The initial conversation kept repeating for every single reload, which meant I got the "last note" update each time, along with the view switch from when you are supposed to be released from the cinematic hold. This was very annoying after a while. Also, although I got the map, once I reloaded outside the station, it disappeared from my inventory (the objective was still checked off though). Furthermore, the objective to find my equipment never got removed. I think it is supposed to be replaced by the HammeRail objective. So when I got to the station, the lever to end the mission wasn't frobbable, and I was stuck. Also, taking any of the bows didn't work. It just removed all the items from my inventory. Taking arrows then only showed up as water/earth/fire/air crystals, not arrows, so I couldn't actually use them. The only exception was 6 water arrows in the street close to the station, they worked like normal. Any loot taken before taking the bow will also disappear from inventory, even if the bow works. So if you want the bow and functional arrows, and also all the loot, then you have to get the bow first and then return to the station to get the loot afterwards.

    I did however locate all the loot this time. I went back to my All Hints run to check, and the loot is the same. I made a loot list HERE. I didn't manage to take all the loot though, as one of the crystals (plus a flash bomb) in the power station isn't reachable, and I couldn't find any entrance to that area.



    I still couldn't find more than 1 out of 3 secrets, so perhaps getting this loot is tied to one of those. I also did not find any uses for the woman's key or the janitor's key, so perhaps they have something to do with it. I didn't find any locked devices anywhere though, so I'm not sure what they could open. I visited all the rooftops and ledges I could find. You can get easily get anywhere you want without a rope arrow. In fact, there aren't even that many places to attach a rope.
    Klatremus' Supreme Thief Site - Walkthroughs, Loot Lists & Ghost Reports
    Let's Supreme Ghost Thief - YouTube Channel with Thief Let's Plays

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    Did you try high up in the jail's office area? IIRC you can climb onto the office partitions, then find something above them that way. (I don't remember what, though!)

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    I already looked up there quite a bit. Searched again, but nothing. It must be extremely well hidden, whatever it is.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    Quote Originally Posted by klatremus View Post
    It must be extremely well hidden, whatever it is.
    The most likely explanation is that the missing secret is a bug. You probably found it, but it didn't trigger. However, if anything sparks my memory, I'll let you know.

    I discovered no differences in loot, items, enemies or patrol paths between the difficulties, so I assume the difference lies only in what in-game hints you get.
    Yes. This was the original idea for CoSaS, and MX's deviation from that idea (for instance, removing extra bows at higher difficulties) was a mistake.

    Unfortunately, we did not realize how many people never play on anything below the highest difficulty. It's a shame, because each difficulty has its own voice work, and the team is really warm and friendly on the lowest difficulty.

    Edit: Now that I look at your ghost report, I see there's a readable missing. If you follow the second-story ledges far enough there's a snowy platform with a pagan's readable. Maybe that's the missing secret?
    Last edited by Anarchic Fox; 12th Jul 2020 at 20:53.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •