TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile
Page 7 of 14 FirstFirst ... 23456789101112 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 175 of 338

Thread: Cancel culture cancelled the thread on cancel culture

  1. #151
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    You can't see what I mean?

    I'll explain it.

    Dislike or disagree with an opinion because of the opinion, not who is expressing it.

    It's not hard.

  2. #152
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Location: Edmonton
    I think I'm done here. I said at the start of this that I'm still learning about the subject, and I've probably gotten in over my head by this point. I just don't see accepting any amount of discrimination as a reasonable to solution to the problem. We get through this by trying to understand and empathize with others' experiences.

  3. #153
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    So now the landscape is clearer and your assumptions have been shattered you're running away?

    Okay.

    Who do you think is being discriminated against btw? Trans people, or women who want women only safe spaces?

  4. #154
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Do you think your alpha male dick waving (that comment about Aja running away) benefits the conversation in any way?

    In any case, you're making it quite clear: you don't consider trans women as women. Otherwise your statement above makes zero sense. At that point, is there any point in continuing the conversation? To me it sounds like a fundamental disagreement that simply cannot be resolved.

  5. #155
    Taking the Death Toll
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: they/them mayhem
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    You can't see what I mean?

    I'll explain it.

    Dislike or disagree with an opinion because of the opinion, not who is expressing it.

    It's not hard.
    no, subjeff, i couldn't see what you meant because you couched it in one of the stupidest possible arguments on the planet

    and anyway, the opinion reflects on the opinion-holder and the opinion-holder reflects on the opinion

    i already didn't like you, subjeff, i think you're actually an incredibly arrogant, willfully clueless person. quite frankly, we will never be friends, even if you were to suddenly agree with me on every position i hold ever because i still find you repugnant

    therefore, SD agreeing with you on this indefensible position reflects poorly on him

  6. #156
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirith View Post
    In any case, you're making it quite clear: you don't consider trans women as women. Otherwise your statement above makes zero sense. At that point, is there any point in continuing the conversation? To me it sounds like a fundamental disagreement that simply cannot be resolved.
    Bingo. That's the crux of my disagreement with SD as well - I was going to reply to his points and still might, but it's clear that the difference here is his not understanding the core issue of trans people's identities, and letting that run the course for discrimination because of poor logic. The same logic is still being used today to vilify and other black people by quoting crime rates, and we're supposed to have moved on from being intolerant shitheels; you can't argue any of this as an entirely isolated issue without placing it in the wider context of society as a whole.

  7. #157
    Taking the Death Toll
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: they/them mayhem
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    So now the landscape is clearer and your assumptions have been shattered you're running away?
    called it

    you always do this, as soon as someone disengages with you and your bullshit you get upset

  8. #158
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Well Aja has come up with a lot what I consider odd ideas that appear to support the facilitation of potential crimes under the Sexual Offenses Act, so I think he's got a lot to answer for.

    As to trans women being women - I support identification as whatever you want. Identification isn't a magic incantation though - it won't remove penises, grant vaginae, nor remove cis-women's fears.

  9. #159
    Taking the Death Toll
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: they/them mayhem
    i've known you long enough to know that the only fears you care about are your own, subjeff

    y'all obsessed with other peoples' junk, just like SD, it's creepy

  10. #160
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Quote Originally Posted by june gloom View Post

    y'all obsessed with other peoples' junk,
    It's kind of the point though, isn't it?

    If all trans women had had GRS the issue wouldn't exist in its current form, would it?

  11. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    As to trans women being women - I support identification as whatever you want. Identification isn't a magic incantation though - it won't remove penises, grant vaginae, nor remove cis-women's fears.
    You still frame it as if it's a choice. If that's what you think, you are fundamentally wrong. People don't choose to be trans. They are.

    And again, it's very telling that this entire discussion is still focused exclusively on MtF transgender persons. It's like the entire FtM and NB sides of it don't even exist in your world, guys.

  12. #162
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    I don't think it's a choice at all.

    And the reason we're talking any MtF is because that's what cis-women are concerned about. That's the discussion.

    We can talk about FtM too, but I'm not aware of similar concerns.

  13. #163
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    The issue is a combination of higher testosterone levels is associated with greater aggression, and that aggression for heterosexual men is disproportionately oriented towards women. The two major observations you need to start with transgender women is that their testosterone levels are generally lower than men, but not as low as cis-women, and transgender women, like other women, are generally more attracted to men (more heterosexual than homosexual), but not at the same levels as cis-women.

    The third element is that it's hard to imagine having a person's gender recognized is an indulgence. There's actually a long story to that issue in the social and policy history and gender politics of restrooms which someone that wants to have an opinion on this issue should read up on, e.g., all the gender discrimination cases on the number of bathrooms in venues, and of course one has to read up on why transgender are advocating for bathroom equality. (An idea worth thinking about, just to reject, is switching to low-T and high-T bathrooms if it were really T levels you cared about, but the gender politics of restrooms and validation is way too tangled to take that as realistic.)

    Finally, the heart of the issue isn't about penises. It's about the cytoarchitechtonics of the bed and interstitial nuclei of the hypothalamus and about 50 other areas in circuits for sex-related behavior, where gender identity and phenomenology is constructed (protip: transgender people have the bed and interstitial nuclei of the gender they identify with, and these and connected areas modulate gendered experience, like the maternal instinct a woman feels towards her children and however many 1000s of other gendered experiences) and where issues involving rape and transgenderism intersect, that would quite literally take an 800 page textbook to explain the short version.

    There are things to talk about, but you have a lot of reading to do, 100s and 100s of pages, before you're actually talking about anything approaching the social, political, and neurological reality of the issue.
    Last edited by demagogue; 8th Jul 2020 at 04:41.

  14. #164
    Taking the Death Toll
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: they/them mayhem
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    It's kind of the point though, isn't it?

    If all trans women had had GRS the issue wouldn't exist in its current form, would it?
    y'all would still find a way to demonize and exclude trans women

    because that's what always happens in situations like this

  15. #165
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Not at all june, really not at all.

    Consider that situation - would there be any issue to discuss of this type?

    But let's be clear, I don't think anyone should have to undergo GRS to be considered the gender they feel they are.
    Last edited by SubJeff; 8th Jul 2020 at 05:13.

  16. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    And the reason we're talking any MtF is because that's what cis-women are concerned about. That's the discussion.
    It absolutely is relevant to the discussion, man. So you think this guy I posted earlier belongs in a ladies' restroom or changing room? You really think the cis-women you talk about will be comfortable seeing him there? After all, he was AFAB, so it's all right, right? No, of course it's not.

    This is why the entire argument makes no sense.

  17. #167
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    What guy you posted earlier?

    Did I miss a post?

  18. #168
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    He's talking about this: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthre...=1#post2452460

    If you're not going to be openly discriminating male vs. female transgender, then you have to demand transgender men stay in women's bathrooms. It's helping to expose the fact that most of the public debate on this issue has little to nothing to actually do with transgenderism and is an aspect of a larger gender politics debate happening in the culture that is really a separate issue altogether.

    I've been thinking about making a video about how people should talk about policy issues. People need to put their emotions aside and recognize structural issues in the way societies work. There's always going to be a regular population of men that are born in the bodies of women, and women that are born in the bodies of men. There's already a level of existential body horror naturally involved with that even before society starts adding to the heap. And it's not a problem that's just going to go away one day.

    As a society, the sustainable thing to do is allow people to express their gender with the least amount of trauma and social dislocation as possible. (Quick footnote: calling a M2F transgender person "born male" is actually a misnomer. They are born female in their gender experience, go down the list; they are only born with a male body. And vice versa.)

    Allowing persons to go to the bathroom of their experienced gender is such a low-lying fruit to expect from a civilized society that it's a testament to how much misunderstanding there is that it's even up for debate.

    ...

    Edit: If one wanted to boil the issue down, I'd start with this. "A transgender woman is born as a woman in the body of a man, and vice versa for transgender men." Do you agree with that statement or not? Then we can go from there.
    Last edited by demagogue; 8th Jul 2020 at 05:28.

  19. #169
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    You can't see what I mean?

    I'll explain it.

    Dislike or disagree with an opinion because of the opinion, not who is expressing it.

    It's not hard.
    Aye well I tried that and a lynch mob showed up all with personal grievances with nothing to do with the subject at all. So its a lesson to be learned for all.

    Positive side is making good use of ignore lists for those who speak nothing but vitriol.

  20. #170
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Re: cancel culture.I guess all these people are alt right shills?

  21. #171
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    Aye well I tried that and a lynch mob showed up all with personal grievances with nothing to do with the subject at all. So its a lesson to be learned for all.

    Positive side is making good use of ignore lists for those who speak nothing but vitriol.
    Everyone who addressed your points shot them down with facts you provided yourself and your only rejoinder to that is 'woe is me'. This is not only hilarious, it's also very sad.

  22. #172
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    If you're not going to be openly discriminating male vs. female transgender, then you have to demand transgender men stay in women's bathrooms.
    No you don't.

    Why do you?

  23. #173
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror

  24. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    No you don't.

    Why do you?
    So trans women can't use their preferred facilities, but trans men can? Holy double standard, Batman. But what if a penis-wielding individual attacks a trans man in a male facility then? After all, he's a woman, according to you.

  25. #175
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    I do kind of love that SD talked about people being labelled transphobic because of who you're attracted to, was challenged, provided evidence and...

Page 7 of 14 FirstFirst ... 23456789101112 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •