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Thread: What are the limits of NewDark compared to Old Dark?

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2020
    Location: Bucharest

    What are the limits of NewDark compared to Old Dark?

    I'm considering making a mission in NewDark, people told me this editor has much higher limits than Old Dark which i used until now. Is it really worth it?
    What are the limits of NewDark compared to OldDark in terms of terrain brushes, room brushes, total number of brushes, objects, ambient sounds etc?
    I am also using custom resources from Dromed de Luxe Edition, can these be imported in NewDark? I mean installing DDX in NewDark?

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    NewDark comes with a document called modders-notes.txt that extensively lays out the changes from OldDark, as well as lots of useful information about new features. Here are the important NewDark limits, with OldDark ones listed in parentheses and the important ones in bold:

    Max concrete object IDs: 8192 (from 4096)
    Max visible objects: 1280 (from 128)

    Max texture dimension: 4096 (from 1024)
    Max texture animation frames: 99 (from 20)
    Max drawn terrain polys: 20480 (from 1024)
    Max ambient sound objects: 1024 (from 256)

    Max cells for bounding sphere spatial queries: 1024 (from 512)
    Max cells a dynamic light can reach: 1024 (from 512)
    Max portal clip regions: 20480 (from 2048)
    Max characters per cfg-file line: 8192 (from 80)
    Max display resolution: <unlimited>x4800 (actual limit depends on HW) DX9 / 2048x2048 DX6 (from 1024x768)

    Max brushes: 16384 (from 7068)
    Max regions (/ worldrep (WR) cells): 32760 (from 28672)

    Max active regions: 20480 (from 768)
    Max rooms: 4096 (from 1024)
    Max AI path cells: 131070 (from 65534)
    Max texture families: 32 (from 16)
    Max family textures: 1024-ish (from 256-ish)

    Max application data handles: 4096 (from 2048)
    Max model handles: 2048 (from 1024)
    Max static lights: 2016 (from 736)
    Max cells a static/anim light can reach: 32760 (from 512)
    Max anim light to cell pairings: 49152 (from 16384)
    Max brush faces/sides: 28 (from 12)
    Max decals per page on Thief maps: 256 (from 64)
    Max pages per mission on Thief maps: 32 (from 8) [where visited area functionality works correctly]
    Max world size: configurable up to +/-2000 (from +/-1000) [only increase if absolutely necessary]

    New image formats: PNG, DDS, PCX 32-bit, BMP 24/32-bit, BMP RLE, TGA RLE

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2020
    Location: Bucharest
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkBogan View Post
    NewDark comes with a document called modders-notes.txt that extensively lays out the changes from OldDark, as well as lots of useful information about new features. Here are the important NewDark limits, with OldDark ones listed in parentheses and the important ones in bold:

    Max concrete object IDs: 8192 (from 4096)
    Max visible objects: 1280 (from 128)

    Max texture dimension: 4096 (from 1024)
    Max texture animation frames: 99 (from 20)
    Max drawn terrain polys: 20480 (from 1024)
    Max ambient sound objects: 1024 (from 256)

    Max cells for bounding sphere spatial queries: 1024 (from 512)
    Max cells a dynamic light can reach: 1024 (from 512)
    Max portal clip regions: 20480 (from 2048)
    Max characters per cfg-file line: 8192 (from 80)
    Max display resolution: <unlimited>x4800 (actual limit depends on HW) DX9 / 2048x2048 DX6 (from 1024x768)

    Max brushes: 16384 (from 7068)
    Max regions (/ worldrep (WR) cells): 32760 (from 28672)

    Max active regions: 20480 (from 768)
    Max rooms: 4096 (from 1024)
    Max AI path cells: 131070 (from 65534)
    Max texture families: 32 (from 16)
    Max family textures: 1024-ish (from 256-ish)

    Max application data handles: 4096 (from 2048)
    Max model handles: 2048 (from 1024)
    Max static lights: 2016 (from 736)
    Max cells a static/anim light can reach: 32760 (from 512)
    Max anim light to cell pairings: 49152 (from 16384)
    Max brush faces/sides: 28 (from 12)
    Max decals per page on Thief maps: 256 (from 64)
    Max pages per mission on Thief maps: 32 (from 8) [where visited area functionality works correctly]
    Max world size: configurable up to +/-2000 (from +/-1000) [only increase if absolutely necessary]

    New image formats: PNG, DDS, PCX 32-bit, BMP 24/32-bit, BMP RLE, TGA RLE
    Thanks for the answer. I'm quite surprised to see all these.. the limits of the engine(version 1.18) in which i built my missions "A Tough Night" and "Into the Dark Forest" where much lower than the ones listed here:
    -terrain brushes: 4000
    -light brushes: 250
    -area brushes: around 50, probably 64
    -room brushes: 750
    -objects: around 2000 (not more than 2400 considering the textures used included in this limit)

    It's not that clear to me what are the real number of objects i can use, is this 8192? I can use 8192 object in my mission? The specs said something about obj IDs not number of objects..
    I see the cell number is not increased by much 32760 from 28672 and this is probably the first limit a builder encounters..
    Last edited by Master of Dromed; 8th Jul 2020 at 06:12.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Technically you can use 8192 objects, but I found you'll crash Dromed and break a mission around the 8000 mark - remember that the game creates objects while running (e.g. projectiles). If you're getting past about 7500 object numbers, I would strongly suggest slowing down and reassessing.

    Cell limit is indeed the most likely to be hit first these days.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2020
    Location: Bucharest
    Thank you for your answer nicked! I can't believe i can use 7500 objects! What a party will be

  6. #6
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Master of Dromed View Post
    I see the cell number is not increased by much 32760 from 28672
    ->
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryG View Post
    32760 is very close to 32767, the largest value for a 2-byte integer. Coincidence? Or is the cell limit based on the data type of the internal storage used? I would bet on the latter. Which means that the cell limit is not likely to increase again any time soon, as it could requiring tracking down all related places in the code and changing the data types of the storage arrays involved.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2020
    Location: Bucharest
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    ->
    Tanks for the answer voodoo47! I followed the link you posted from LarryG's post from 2014 and I read the thread from 2014 about NewDark limits. Now all become clear to me

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