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Thread: T2 FM: Malazar's Inscrutable Tower (18th July 2020)

  1. #101
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2007
    Location: Krull Island, in the pub
    Believe me or not, I'm having one of my scariest moments of Thief right now, when I encounter this randomly moving but still statue-like "statue-lady". How on earth to get rid of her? I mean: wherever I go within this small room and a corridor, sooner or later she will follow me and kill me. All I have is broadheads, which already proved useless against her. Thank you!

  2. #102
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Just keep looking at them, and run away!

  3. #103
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2007
    Location: Krull Island, in the pub
    Quote Originally Posted by nicked View Post
    Just keep looking at them, and run away!
    Oh yes, just do not turn my back on her. Let's hope this will work in itself.

  4. #104
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2007
    Location: Krull Island, in the pub
    Quote Originally Posted by ticky View Post
    Oh yes, just do not turn my back on her. Let's hope this will work in itself.
    Well, I think I'm still having a bit of trouble about these moving statues, because even if I know they are moving when I turn my back on them, I still think their behaviour is unpredictable. Is there a general rule to avoid them besides not facing them??

  5. #105
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    They still see normally, so the usual way of staying in the shadows or behind them also works, where possible.

  6. #106
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Yeah, apart from the freezing, they are identical to a normal hostile AI and you can treat them as such with regard to shadows and cover.
    They move totally normally, but only when offscreen, and with no footstep sounds. Remember that the AI cannot climb, so anywhere involving mantling will be a good way to get away if one is chasing you. As a technical limitation they also have a tendency to give up very quickly if you go through a seamless teleport that takes you out of their search radius. If you're having trouble with one blocking a route in a particular area, you can turn away to bait them into chasing you, then turn back to freeze them in a new position.

  7. #107
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2007
    Location: Krull Island, in the pub
    Quote Originally Posted by nicked View Post
    Yeah, apart from the freezing, they are identical to a normal hostile AI and you can treat them as such with regard to shadows and cover.
    They move totally normally, but only when offscreen, and with no footstep sounds. Remember that the AI cannot climb, so anywhere involving mantling will be a good way to get away if one is chasing you. As a technical limitation they also have a tendency to give up very quickly if you go through a seamless teleport that takes you out of their search radius. If you're having trouble with one blocking a route in a particular area, you can turn away to bait them into chasing you, then turn back to freeze them in a new position.
    Thank you, and thank you Nameless Voice too. They are fairly intelligent then for a statue! I'm having a lot of fun, since I know how to trick them, this level is fun (and not just because of this).

  8. #108
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2007
    Location: Krull Island, in the pub
    I can't get my horn back!

    When I was in the library top floor where the opening in the rail is, I threw the horn of winter out as the walkthrough suggested. However, after the ruins section and getting the Word of awakening, when I go down to the lowest floor of the library, the Horn is not there. But I threw it out here before.

    Where could it be?
    Is there a possible bug related to this, or am I missing something?

    edit: luckily I had a hardsave, a hardsave right before I threw out the horn. Loaded it up, then went through exactly the same route and did exactly the same things, now the horn is there at the lowest level. Please note that this can occur!
    Last edited by ticky; 30th Aug 2020 at 12:58.

  9. #109
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Interesting - I guess there is a small chance that the horn could snag on a beam on the way down. Glad it worked for you on a second try!

  10. #110
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2007
    Location: Krull Island, in the pub
    Finished the other day. Congrats again, this is an entertaining, well-detailed masterpiace with a lot of fun. I'd also like to point out how nice and detailed the ambient sounds are.

    The whole mission felt like being in a strange dream - which is the third one for me this year. Others were Secrets of the Old City and of course Into the Odd.

    other pros:

    - The amount of detail is impressive (for example: the diversity and quantity of items and objects throughout the mission - from the piranha "stuffed" fishes on the wall to the smoked fish rack in the kitchen (which actually made me hungry with the cozy sound of the nearby fireplace)
    - The visuals are stunning, especially in the ruins and in the greenhouse area where the sun shines through the glasses
    - The statue ladies are a very unique idea, and they are so creepy not just because their looks, but their generally near-to-non-existent voice. The fact that they only attack off-screen is a bit ironical for Garrett I think
    - I play with headphones and some bass enhancement, and relatively big screen and in a dark environment, which made me actually feel being there while I was at the winter section
    - GREAT!

    some cons for me:

    - the huge creatures near the winter castle are a bit out of the Thief universe for me (not because they are custom creatures, but because their size and looks altogether)
    - some objects and next steps definitely needed a walkhrough to proceed, there should have been a couple of more hints.
    Last edited by ticky; 31st Aug 2020 at 15:01.

  11. #111
    FYI, the version 1.1 archive still shows up as version 1.0 in FMSel.

  12. #112
    Finished in about 2 hour 40 minutes. Really enjoyed this mission nicked, I thought it was pretty much a masterpiece. Loved the crazy layout and the nonsensical geometry of the place. So many cool unique areas to explore too - the library, the greenhouse, the fire and ice areas, the maze, the glade - all very memorable. And the moving mop was pretty cool too.

    Personally, I thought the statue AI worked perfectly. There has to be some element of danger to the place, and being that the tower was completely uninhabited, the statues worked great. Even though I thought I was ready for them at every turn, they still surprised me often. The fact that they were completely silent was very unnerving. They did get in the way a few times when I was trying to explore an area, but if you put some thought into it, there was always a way to distract or reroute them to temporarily get them out of the picture.

    The puzzles all worked well, and were almost always solvable with just a little bit of thought. The perfect balance of not too hard and not too easy.

    10/10. Too bad Malazar died, I'd love a sequel.

    Not sure this was intended, but near the end, after leaving Malazar's quarter in the ice area, I went up the spiral stairs, and saw the crystal. I immediatley turned around and tried to go back to his quarters to get some loot, but the way back was blocked. When I went back upstairs, I was suddenly back in the kitchen! So it forced me to take the long way and go back through the ice area again. Not a big deal, but I just wondered if that was all by design.

    Anyways, great job with this, anxiously looking forward to your next one.

  13. #113
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    That is by design, yeah, but mainly for technical reasons. I had to reuse the same transition in the "real" stairwell as there wasn't enough room in the stairs to hide two triggers without the edges showing. I could have made the tower taller instead, but extending spiral stairs after the fact isn't much fun!

  14. #114
    I just finished this mission and loved it even though I'm not a puzzle fan. It was dreamlike and surreal and slightly creepy. The statues kept scaring the crap out of me even though I was trying to keep my eyes peeled. 10/10 mission!

  15. #115
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2020
    Location: Germany
    Just finished this one and gotta say I really loved it! The architecture with the magic features is really sth. else. At times I was wondering if Iīm seriously still in that tiny tower

    I also quite liked the story about the magician and his apprentice michael. I felt really sad for him when I saw him burned up. Though I already guessed it would happen when I read his note about how he thinks his master is just testing him. Poor guy!

    The only complain I have is the way the horn is handled. Having to throw it from up there to the down floor. How exactly are you supposed to know that? I mean sure you see thereīs an open window and all but you donīt know for sure if youīll ever get it back when you throw it down from this high up. It could work out, but it could also not work out, like getting stuck or sth. like that. So to make sure you absolutely have to look this up in the forum to see if that really is how itīs supposed to be done.

    Anyway, thank you very much for the great mission nicked!

  16. #116
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I thought that was a great puzzle, needs just the right amount of outside-the-box thinking while only using standard systems that you already know about, and which would logically work in the real world.

  17. #117
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2006
    Location: Antarctica
    Very fun mission. In the beginning I had a little trouble with the staff, but once I got that worked out it was plain sailing. Hated and loved those freak statues!

  18. #118
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Quote Originally Posted by ticky View Post
    I can't get my horn back!

    When I was in the library top floor where the opening in the rail is, I threw the horn of winter out as the walkthrough suggested. However, after the ruins section and getting the Word of awakening, when I go down to the lowest floor of the library, the Horn is not there. But I threw it out here before.

    Where could it be?
    Is there a possible bug related to this, or am I missing something?

    edit: luckily I had a hardsave, a hardsave right before I threw out the horn. Loaded it up, then went through exactly the same route and did exactly the same things, now the horn is there at the lowest level. Please note that this can occur!
    I had a similar problem and I think it might be affected by whether or not you're leaning forward ("into" the shaft) when you drop the horn. I think the best way to do is it to lean into the shaft, release the horn while you make sure to keep the 'lean forward' key pressed, then look down to see if it's falling properly. I think what happened to me the first time around was the somehow the leaning didn't affect the point in space where the horn was released, so it fell right at my feet, and I didn't notice it in the dark environment.

  19. #119
    Member
    Registered: May 2016
    I notice red mist is there if you drop horn in it, I assume this is to prevent you from crossing the mist and picking the horn up. But why not just make the mist cover a much larger area?

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