FMs - Ghost/Perfect Thief Results (Part 9) [SPOILERS]

[Galaer]

ARAC ATTACK

Spider mission that can't be ghosted. I'm not even gonna try. Mission has tendency to put enemies right in your face without any chance to dodge them. Also it's hard to escape, because passages are blocked by cobwebs, which you need to cut. Also mission starts with "Body Discovery: 1" stat. It's because there are 2 fights between spiders and other enemies. First fight probably can be avoided as it is fight between 3 spiders and 3 haunts. Just jump into hole.

Second encounter is fight between 3 spiders and Mechanist, priest and bot. Bot is shooting skulls instead of cannonballs, so it can't be harmed by them. Mechanist may die in fight, but priest and bot will survive and it's impossible to dodge them. Plus there are 2 gems that must be collected and next passage is blocked by couple of cobwebs. And both enemies can go after you and enter passage.

Third encounter are couple of spiders including 2 fireball spiders. Because of torches near entrance and your lack of water arrows, they spot you immediately. Plus there are priest and bot behind you.

Fourth encounter are 3 spiders in narrow passage. Impossible to avoid. A bit after them is hole in ceiling. From there falls another spider and immediately attacks us.

Fifth encounter is egg room with couple spiders including 2 fireball spiders. Impossible to avoid. Plus you need to explode eggs, which is noisy and spawn couple more spiders. And also it bugs sound. For some reason, while in this room, I don't register enemies sound, ambient sound or any of my footsteps. Weird.

Sixth encounter is fight with queen. She must be killed. Being very close to her may look safe at first as her attacks go above us, but she spawns 20 fireball spiders all around her and 2 fireball spiders at the top. She can't be killed in 1 hit either. Strategy to beat her is to shoot arrow into her from the top and quickly back off. Kill 2 summoned spiders and then shoot queen to death. Of course all attacks alert other spiders.

Last encounter is at exit. It's well lighten and there are 2 fireball spiders that will spot you immediately.

GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE

[Galaer]

BREAKOUT FROM APOCALYPSE PRISON

I get earlier Blade of Semet by using code before learning it. This sword makes me invisible until I bump into front of enemies or attack them. In this mission I need to kill 4 Horsemen of Apocalypse. Pestilence (frog) is easy. Just slash it with sword.

War (bot) is more tricky. To open safe with 2 switches operating elevator on which is bot, you must use panel opening gates with 3 Mechanists and 3 Hammerites on both sides. They will start fight and bot will join it. You can avoid alert by operating control panel from ground level, run behind to use lever and quickly run to operate panel again. This way you may avoid alerting all enemies. Then just shoot water arrow into down switch and War will die.

To kill Famine (zombie) you must shoot water arrow at red lady (Angela). She will teleport to zombie and kill him. This alerts all Pagans and Death (haunt), but since it wasn't done directly by me, it's not a bust. But this alert makes Death impossible to kill in one hit and he's so sensitive that he spots us whenever we swing sword at him. And killing Death before Famine will 2nd alert Pagan at the top of stairs plus 2nd alert neutral prisoners. So whatever you do, killing haunt leads to ghost bust #1.

I have dml fix installed, but my escape objective doesn't complete. I read on forum that it supposed to end in crawl space near bot, but it's not happening. So I went there and used cheat to skip mission.

STATS:

Time: 0:13:45; Loot: 1046/1046
Pockets Picked: 2/2; Locks Picked: 3
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 108; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 2
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 0/0

GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE

[klatremus]

Game: Thief 1
FM: Dirty Money [72 Hour Contest]

Ghost - Success
Perfect Thief - Success
Supreme Ghost - Success
Perfect Supreme - Failed
Time - 1:11:37
Loot - 3000/3000 (Supreme: 2940)
Pockets Picked - 5/6
Locks Picked - 16
Backstabs - 0, Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 0, Damage taken - 0
Healing taken - 0, Other Kills - 0, Bodies Discovered - 0
Consumables - None

See the entire report with screenshots here!
Loot list here!
YouTube let's play here!

Comments:
This is probably my least favorite DrK mission so far, although that says more about his other creations. It’s very impressive to think about this being made in less than 3 days. It’s very good looking, and The Pit is plain awesome, though it does suffer from very confusing navigation in the sewers and city section of Knavesbury. If those areas had been simpler, this would’ve jumped from a good to a stellar mission. Rest assured, I will continue to play DrK’s releases until the sun swallows the moon.

I mainly had to find my way to The Pit in Knavesbury and procure a holy hammer stolen from a local chapel, as well as obtain some reports on the Ivory Rose Casino. My loot goal was 1,700, before needing to make my way back to Aberstreet, the initial part of town.

Aberstreet
The area surrounding Aberstreet wasn’t difficult. At first I thought I had to wait to trigger the extra patroller involved in the bridge conversation, but this wasn’t necessary. The streets had enough dark spots to dodge them all. The only slightly tough area to ghost was to the east, surrounding a street with a patrolling archer on a patio above. There were a few coin stacks on the rafter in the staircase that I had to grab from a rope. He didn’t hear me drop to the ground afterwards. Just west of this was another stack of coins in a windowsill. I had to grab it from a beam and then quickly jump to dark statue nearby before the aforementioned archer emerged. This took a few tries to get right, but quite repeatable. Another windowsill had loot above the canal. I couldn’t get to it from below, so I utilized the wooden beams sticking out from the top (image below). I couldn’t retrieve the rope safely, so I returned to the roof and approached the bridge again from the south.



I didn’t have any big issues west of the guardhouse. A sleeping lady in an apartment owned some loot that I stole. Getting back down took timing of the patrolling swordsman. I grabbed the rope and fell to the street. It was loud, but if he was at the eastern end of his patrol, he didn’t say anything.

Snuck along the left side to pass the bridge guards alert free. There was a ladder here that brought me safely down to the canal (image below). Got a few more loot pieces at the far eastern end before entering the sewer section.



Knavesbury
The streets and sewers of Knavesbury were my least favorite parts of the mission. It seemed to have been made with no other purpose than to confuse the player. Most areas had 3-4 different ways in, but without much point, as the streets alone had easy ways to dodge enemies. This was one of those rare cases where making a section of town non-linear made it less fun.

The only difficult area was surrounding a thief’s hideout in the west (image below). I could pick the lock on the back door coming directly from the sewers to the south, but this was not necessary. A gate to the east could also be used, but this was very difficult due to a stationary thief on the nearby overlook. The third entry from the north was the easy choice.





The Pit
I entered via the front doors. Needed Roderick’s key in order to get Herwin’s key, in order to clean the bottom floor, so this seemed like the most logical entry point. It was very difficult (or near impossible) to pass the restaurant from west to east. Instead I lowered myself by way of a rope in the northwest corner (image above). I found the best rope placement to stay hidden from the barmaid’s view when descending. She had three facing angles, the same as Roderick; east, north and west. I timed the patroller and leaned in to grab his key. Climbed back up the rope and approached the eastern part of the bar by using the lift. I traditionally don’t like using loud machinery, but I caved in this time. Nobody alerted to it regardless. From this end I could grab the rest of the loot. A door directly to the barmaid’s south was perfect for grabbing the goodies on or behind the bar counter (image below). Since neither she nor Roderick faced south, I could fairly easily get everything from this location.



From here, I used the vent system to access the western living quarters. There was a door leading there from the restaurant also, but it required lockpicking, which I don’t do if I can avoid it. Triggered a conversation here and stole a key off the guard’s belt. Next I cleaned Roderick’s bedroom and his treasure pit without issues.

Used what I assume to be a well to reach Herwin’s quarters, where I found the Ivory Rose documents. A bit disappointed it wasn’t readable. I could now approach the four other guards’ bedrooms on this floor from the south. They were all guarded by a lone stationary thief archer (image below) and an unimportant wandering servant. The archer pivoted south, east and north. Waiting for his angle to be convenient, I could quite easily move past him in either direction, staying on his west side. I could not, however, enter the bedrooms to his southwest or northwest for Supreme, so I skipped the loot in there for that mode. He didn’t alert to picking the locks, but rather to either door opening, which I don’t think I’ve ever experienced before. The lockpicking sounds were very faded, so I assume something to be off with the sound propagation. The opening/closing sounds were normal and that’s what triggered him.



The final challenge was the casino, which I approached via a ventilation shaft to the south. Five coin stacks on the tables and a goblet on the floor were my targets. I went for the goblet first. It was placed directly underneath a lit torch. The goblet could not be reached without getting hit by the torch’s light. The only gambler that consistently alerted to the torch lighting me up was facing south by the gambling table to the far west. He was, however, involved in a conversation, and if using that to my advantage, I could avoid his comment. The two thieves could also comment, but one of them was patrolling and the other on a rotational pivot. Both of them could be timed. After not long, I leaned in and grabbed the piece of loot with no busts. Nice!



The only other items worth mentioning were two coin stacks in the far northwest. I could use the ceiling rafters to move around the room easily enough; the problem was safely descending to obtain the loot. The eastern stack I ended up taking from the east side of the table (image above). I dropped onto the mantelpiece and slid off into the shadow next to the fireplace to get to the floor. I couldn’t sneak all the way over to the table, but had to lean in from the slightly more shaded area a foot or two away. The lamp directly above the table was the light source in question, and one of the gamblers by the northeast table could easily catch me. Had to mantle back up the fireplace and the rafter and approach the final coin stack from the west. Here I used a rope arrow into the north wall and dropped onto the top of it. It had to be fastened at the very top for two reasons: 1) Only the top portion was dark enough to avoid comments when dropping, and 2) I had to be able to retrieve it from the top rafter afterwards. Climbing down a tad kept me concealed enough to avoid any alerts, but low enough to grab the coins (image below). The final piece of loot was in the elevator shaft, but it wasn’t hard to get at all.



Before leaving the compound I returned Herwin’s key, the guard’s yellow key, and finally Roderick’s key, in that order. I originally had planned on dropping Roderick’s key from high up on the ceiling rafter, but he gave a comment from the drop, even if it landed on the rug. Instead I had to again use a rope arrow and time everyone’s angles in order to drop it back manually. Although this wasn’t difficult, it did require some patience.

On my way back, the only thing worth mentioning was I couldn’t use the chain to cross the canal emerging at Aberstreet. The bridge guards saw me immediately, so I used the sewer entrance to the east instead.

Notes
- Skipped four coin stacks worth 60 in the two bedrooms closest to the stationary thief in the living quarters at The Pit for Supreme. He commented on either door opening.

[Galaer]

This is probably my least favorite DrK mission so far, although that says more about his other creations. It’s very impressive to think about this being made in less than 3 days.

Actually all participants have 1 week for planning mission and 3 weeks for building it, but in total they could work only 72 hours on it. Rules for contest are here.

Edit: I just noticed that you copied yours The Tower report into A Tough Night too.

[Galaer]

BREAKING THE STONE

MISSION 1 - BREAKING THE STONE

A bit tricky mission, but can be quite easily ghosted. I suspect that author made this mission with supreme ghost in mind. You must be careful of 2 cameras, because they have huge range of view and disable them. In Inn are hard to collect 2 bottles behind counter. To grab them you must enter Inn through hole. For that I mossed floor inside. After you use Pagan Eye you will get to basement with relic and bones. Bones create skeletons unless you use holy water on them. You can avoid that by leaning for relic and just sneaking behind skeletons.

STATS:

Time: 1:15:07; Loot: 3815/4089
Pockets Picked: 10/12; Locks Picked: 8
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 4/4

GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: POSSIBLE

MISSION 2 - IN DREAMS

Short mission. In Mine there is glowing patrolling zombie and ghost lady. Ghost lady is in search mode, but not because of us. She ignores us, she's isn't even physical. Zombie can alert to her and will start attacking her. This leads to blocking path. You must avoid that and go quickly, but quietly though this area. Museum has haunt and 3 bones to collect. Haunt is easy to avoid.

STATS:

Time: 0:12:20; Loot: 0/0
Pockets Picked: 0/0; Locks Picked: 0
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 0/0

GHOST: SUCCESS

MISSION 3 - THE ROSE

It's return to city from Mission 1. No loot, more shadow, less enemies and no cameras. This mission is easier than Mission 1 and honestly I didn't have too much problem to ghost it. The biggest fear was about using Elder Vine on poison crystal as crystal fall into water, but enemies don't react to that. And I'm destroying Shadow Dream Elixir in lava in cave near exit gate. Also I chose non lethal way to deal with Valeria.

STATS:

Time: 0:34:49; Loot: 0/0
Pockets Picked: 5/5; Locks Picked: 0
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 0/0

GHOST: SUCCESS

[Galaer]

CRACKS IN THE GLASS

Easy to ghost city mission. Some city areas have different gravity just like some rooms in The Sword. The hardest challenge is just walking behind patrollers while on marble.

STATS:

Time: 0:56:10; Loot: 3140/3600
Pockets Picked: 15/16; Locks Picked: 22
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 3/3

GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: POSSIBLE

[Galaer]

THE CRYPT OF ST LUCIAN

On objective screen this mission is called "An Old Friend". Small city mission with small crypt. The only problems are during leaving from Crypt. You need to time 4 zombies walking around braziers. 3 of them walks around it in one direction. Last zombie can patrol randomly. But the biggest problem is near broken stairs. There is stationary zombie in narrow passage blocking our way. To go past him you must prepare earlier stack of 2 crates and put it under torch. Douse this torch, climb stack of crates and strafe jump to broken stairs. Also under these stairs is area with 650 loot, but in order to get it you must destroy at least 2 lower wooden planks. So you must skip this loot for ghost.

STATS:

Time: 0:23:42; Loot: 3967/4617
Pockets Picked: 2/4; Locks Picked: 4
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 0/0

GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE. 650 loot behind wooden planks in Crypt must be skipped.

[Galaer]

DARKNESS WALK WITH US!

Pretty tough to ghost Thief 1 Anniversary Contest mission. It has some shenanigans I didn't learn during my test run, so my ghost run was chaotic. I did some pointless stuff. I'm gonna talk about that later.

HOTEL

First of all I'm checking where Ramirez is located in this mission. He can appear in 5 different places: Library, Church, Game Room, Swim Pool and Garden. I don't want him to appear in Game Room and Garden, because it leads to nudging. In case of Game Room I need to nudge him forward to grab 2 coins under table. In case of Garden you must nudge stationary guard more to the right. It's long and you must hide on pipe from patroller. It's possible for him to drop into swim pool and die. It happened for me during my casual ghost run during contest. It's also long nudging. I want to avoid all nudging. That's why I restarted mission until he appeared in other places. For this run he appeared in Swim Pool, so I could steal his key easily.

Another confusing part is switch in closet leading to Painter's Room. It only appears after reading guest book. I never had problem with this part, so I thought I need to play on 1.26a version of TFix, but it's not available anymore. So I searched thread and found my old post that revealed this secret. Thank you, myself from the past.

Last part is about getting to elevator in basement. The intended way is to send elevator down by shooting arrow into down switch and then turn off generator, but I managed to find another way. On the right side are 2 electric machines. You can strafe jump and mantle to higher one and then strafe drop to elevator without disabling electricity.

CRYPT - ENTRANCE

When you enter Crypt you drop from rope. It's possible to get back up by stacking objects, so I decided to escape that way after completing all objectives. So I brought with me 4 potted plants and ball from Hotel. Unfortunately at the end of my run I learned that there is invisible ceiling under rope blocking my escape. I can catch rope, but I can't climb up. By going to save from entering the Crypt, I learned that this invisible barrier appears after picklocking door, which leads to obtaining new objectives.

FIRST ROOM

Here is couple of things you need to know. First you can rope up to obtain Candle. But taking Candle makes 3 magic bolts activate. It's easy to avoid, but bolts hitting walls 2nd alert haunt. To avoid that I catch all missiles. This leads me to losing 9 HP on purpose to avoid alerting haunt. That's why I'm gonna allow this damage and play the rest of this mission with only 1 HP, which for some reason is more stressful.

Second thing is you must drop into water. It's impossible to do it quietly, so haunt must be far away for you to do it. If done correctly, haunt will only 1st alert. You get to next room and there is stone head here. You need it to put on pedestal and you can get to room with pedestal right now. Return to 1st room and go to water. When haunt walks away, jump on gargoyle above water, back off to wall and jump in place while holding jump to mantle on bridge. Go left to room with pedestals. This will open room in 2nd room. This way you can get 4 urns and Void key earlier. It can be tricky to get urns as you must worry about haunt walking on ledge around room and below is walking ghost and zombie.

LAVA CAVE

In Phlogiston Wand's Room there is platforming on lowering into lava tiles. Since they just sink and vanish under lava I don't count that as damage property. Plus since I have shortcut on bridge from 1st room, this platforming for wand is optional.

The hardest challenge is room with fire elemental. You can't really use magic bridge without getting spotted by elemental, so you need to find another way. You can mantle on rock and hide under wall. When elemental will fly away, you must strafe crouch run on top of rock. Sometimes standing works. It's tricky. Don't drop on edge or else you will drop into lava. On top of rock just drop to chest. Wait for elemental to fly away and run to marble ramp. Save and reload. This will make flames to be better synchronized. Just run up, elemental shouldn't hear you. On top is just ghost to avoid. You have a choice. Go left.

LEFT SIDE

Here is corridor with rooms with urns. It's patrolled by haunts who must be avoided by hiding in rooms or in corner behind statues. Unfortunately in this run 1st haunt is stuck on statue. Because of that I must douse torch and crouch walk very slowly along right wall. 2nd haunt patrols normally. Here are also 2 guardian gates. They open only after killing guardians, but there is no objective to kill them, so I want to avoid killing them as much as possible. This passage leads to intended escape. I mantled through last window. Inside is Ring and shortcut to braziers.

RIGHT SIDE

Here problem starts only after reaching Pillar Room. Floor where haunt walks is marble, but floor under pillars is fine. You must walk behind haunt, use Ring on hand, grab right vase and hide behind broken pillar. Go inside for 2nd Void key. if you just drop from ladder, you will drop on metal and make huge noise. You must jump on cold/hot tile when it's black. Next room is room opened by stone head. Just go behind haunt to the next place.

GUARDIAN FROM SPIKE TRAP ROOM

Let me explain how this room work. At the center of room is spike trap. You pretty much must strafe jump to last left tile Here is also barrier and lever deactivating trap. This lever will also turn on light above spike trap as a side effect. Your objective is to steal Liber Tenebrarum book. This closes entrance portcullis and the only way to escape is by double door, but double door is closed and unfrobbable. It only opens after killing guardian who appears only when you return on marble past spike trap and the only way to kill him is by luring him to spike trap and activating it.

I found a way to avoid that by blocking portcullis with 2 potted plants and 2 healing potions. Weirdly enough I can only squeeze through passage after removing potions. Also I doused torch near portcullis to not be bothered by haunts, then I mossed floor under portcullis inside spike trap room and doused right torch. I grabbed book and while on spike trap, I activated trap. This turned off light above it, then just did platforming to last safe tile and slowly went to blocked portcullis and easily mantled up there. I closed portcullis and this was a mistake, because I was forced to redo 20 min of my playthrough due to invisible ceiling at Crypt's entrance.

So I'm forced to kill guardian, so there is no need to douse torches and moss floor anymore, no need to block portcullis either. I still doused torch outside portcullis, because it's convenient whenever I want to use this shortcut. I took book and run to spawn guardian while trap is deactivated, then quickly run to activate trap and guardian dies (ghost bust #1). Sadly it's impossible to kill him without getting spotted by him. You can't nudge him. At least I managed to avoid alerting haunt on the other side of double door. During my casual ghost run, no matter what I did, haunt would always go into search mode.

GUARDIAN FROM LEVERS ROOM

So this is the 1st instance where freezing AI has been used. Guardian freezes in place whenever you look at him. There is no shadow in this room and floor is marble. When you enter it, lever will lower down and your target is to use 5 levers. This activates crusher, which is the only way to kill guardian. This will also open last portcullis leading to Keeper Book needed for objective and 2 pieces of loot needed for me to complete loot objective. So this kill is unavoidable.

I decided to use 3 moss arrows on floor. Guardian can hurt you when you are too close to him, also he has random path and after reloading while looking towards him, he may do 1 step forward. Walking behind him while looking towards him and using levers is hard especially if you don't use moss. But this moss is necessary for quick escape to portcullis before crusher will smash us. Also we don't want to get spotted by guardian when we try to escape to safe place. Anyway, kill of this guardian is ghost bust #2. At least I managed to achieve that without being spotted by guardian.

ESCAPE

To escape you must destroy portal. To do it you must use gas arrow and fire arrow. Fire arrow is loud, so it will alert frogs, bugbeast, ratmen, spider and burrick from nearby caves plus haunts from Crypt (ghost bust #3). I suspect that portal destruction removes invisible ceiling at Crypt's entrance. To shoot fire arrow I wait near water orb and after explosion I run to portal. Wait here for enemies to calm down. It's possible to manipulate them to drop into pond. They will not drown, because lake is shallow. Wait for occasion and climb to exit. In Garden the last obstacle is stationary guard. Wait for him to turn right and strafe run along left side.

STATS:

Time: 1:30:36; Loot: 8149/8704
Locks: 11
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0

GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE

[Galaer]

DEFENSE ASSASSINATION 2

Tricky mission. Patrollers and stationary guards are placed strategically and you need to time them. You need to be careful with entrance to base. Guards near campfire can spot you when you enter inside and it may sound at first as only 1st alert, but it's possible that archer will go into search mode. You can also douse fire, but only when you are in full shadow. Otherwise guards will 2nd alert. The same way you must douse torch near guards in Barracks Room #3 - crouch while on top of bunk on the right, shoot water arrow and quickly hide bow.

You also need to douse torch to open shortcut to basement and douse torch to pass apes area. You will be forced to moss hole in boat, because one of objectives requires you to put inside explosive charge and boat is made out of metal. Also later in the mission you will get kill objective. No problems here and I hide body behind Communications door.

The hardest challenge though is at the beginning of 1st floor of actual base. There is stationary archer on the left, no shadow to hide and patroller. Archer doesn't turn. Wait for patroller to go right and quickly strafe run behind archer, quickly nudge him, so you will go on the other side and strafe run to the other side. You don't have too much time, because patroller's loop isn't long. You also need to have luck with stationary guard on the left to be turned away and another patroller at the end of corridor to be away. You are only safe in dark corner at the end of corridor.

STATS:

Time: 0:44:06; Loot: 2808/3098
Pockets Picked: 15/20; Locks Picked: 7
Back Stabs: 1; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 30; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 1
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 0/0

GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: POSSIBLE

[Galaer]

THE DRYMIAN CODEX

SEWERS

Drunkard at the beginning will fall unconscious always when you approach door to Sewers. Since it's a script I don't count that as a ghost bust. Engineer in Sewers makes comments like he would go into search mode or hunt mode or even got hurt even though he's not alerted. Just like in Behind Closed Doors here too patrolling spiders can see you with their back instead of front. So be careful. In secret in Sewers to open chest in Crayman Area you will need to hide behind pillar from crayman. In Spider Area to get back to water you can shoot rope arrow into ground and descend slowly into water.

CRYPT

You are unable to douse torches in Crypt. Both patrolling and stationary spider see differently than Sewers spiders - from the front. I think. This room is weird. I think when stationary spider turns for short time away from door, he can spot you, because he looks forward towards you. Invisible ghost may be neutral, but he can still hurt you if you are too close to middle of corridors.

MONASTERY

Lots of patrollers. The hardest place is in Basement - Brewmaster's Room. Purple box on the side of desk is well lighten and there is spider nearby. Jump on desk and go as close as possible to barrel. Here is shadow. You can picklock purple box from here. After completing all objectives except Drymian Codex, I'm using secret exit from Barracks Kitchen and go to Pagan Area in Sewers.

TEMPLE

To enter Temple Area from Sewers you must first drop into water quietly. I doused torch for that and then dropped to the other side of water, mantled and quickly cancelled mantle. Hammerites appearance and their fight with Pagan only happen if you enter Drymian Codex Room through secret passage. But you can get there from outside too. From waterfall area rope up to higher level and from broken sarcophagus you can mantle to hole above Drymian Codex.

The intended way to get out from this area is by triggering fight by opening secret passage, stealing Pagan's key and returning to Monastery. This triggers big fight in Monastery between Hammerites and Pagans. This also cancels no kill objective.

But there is another way out - the entrance way. Go back to waterfall. You can mantle to top of waterfall, but to stay there you must hold forward while looking down. Strafe swim and mantle to Pagan Area. Then just go back to starting point. There is no fight in Monastery and everyone is happy.

STATS:

Time: 1:26:33; Loot: 8629/9359
Pockets Picked: 7/10; Locks Picked: 23
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 8/8

GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: POSSIBLE

[Galaer]

ZAPOMNIANY LAS 2 (FORGOTTEN FOREST 2)

Polish mission with haunts and spiders. Lots of marble and obligatory tiny switches. In my test run haunt got stuck on stairs leading to 2nd floor at the end of long corridor. It's possible to get to 2nd floor by putting 2 crates on table and jumping there. Spider near stairs leading to 2nd floor of Library requires fast running from one dark pot to other.

The hardest challenge is opening Vault as it is making loud glass crashing noise. To avoid alerting haunt you must close glass entrance and quickly go through it. Luckily hitbox of glass door is generous and it looks like you are running through raising part of glass door. In Vault I use 4 explosive potions on crystals. It doesn't destroy them, but it deactivates their power.

STATS:

Time: 1:03:48; Loot: 6384/6734
Pockets Picked: 0/0; Locks Picked: 10
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 8/8

GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: NOT POSSIBLE? In secret passage leading to Wine Cellar I spotted statuette above passage, but I couldn't grab it, because 3 wooden beams were in the way. No matter what I tried, I couldn't reach statuette.

[Galaer]

HAMMER ASYLUM

Save of this mission is called "Virtual Asylum". There is FM called Virtual Asylum and it's made by the same author, but these 2 missions are different. This mission doesn't end. I installed dml fix that was supposed to fix that. There is only one objective saying to get out, but before starting mission, objective mentions "How much loot you can get?". This suggests to me that I should try to get all loot, then I'm gonna return to starting point and use cheat to skip mission.

There is no weapons, so ghosting is encouraged. Only one door is opened. To dodge Hammerite you must jump on table and wait for Hammerite to go past you. On 2nd floor quickly run right to get triangle lockpick. Return to starting point for 12 rope arrows. Here ghost run ends as you need to rope up to roof above Garden. 2 Hammerites will spot you (ghost bust #1). Archer shoots gas arrows, so I used him to gas his colleague, then I'm going to room where I got rope arrows and close door, so archer will shoot into it and gas himself. I got caught into gas and lost 3 HP and unfortunately overwrited my save. Hammerite from little corridor will also alert. Just wait in room with rope arrows for him to calm down and return to his room.

In passage above Garden is key and switch. Return to 2nd fllor and open big purple box for 100 loot. Gate is opened, so go to Pool. Here is another Hammerite impossible to ghost (ghost bust #2). I just wait for him to fall into water and drown. In bedroom are 4 urns, which is the max loot for this mission. Time to return to starting point and use cheat to skip it.

Edit: After ghost run I got answer from fortuni who explained that to complete mission you must kill red Hammerite from big purple box room. So taking 4 urns from bedroom after Pool (ghost bust #2) and also visiting Garden (ghost bust #1) is unnecessary. It's impossible to kill Hammerite in one hit (ghost bust #3). I used 3 rope arrows to kill him. Weirdly enough, 2 novices near him don't alert. Then mission ends automatically.

STATS:

Time: 0:22:43; Loot: 180/180
Locks Picked: 1
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 23; Damage Taken: 3; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 1

GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE

[Galaer]

HGS - THE HAUNTED CHURCH

You just need to get all loot and the Eye. The hardest part is getting into secret passage behind altar in Church, because of many haunts and zombies patrolling this place. Also when entering bones will fall from ceiling and may alert haunt if he's very close.

STATS:

Time: 0:09:33; Loot: 600/600
Locks Picked: 2
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 3; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0

GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: FORCED

[Galaer]

LIVING NIGHTMARE

Mission in Hospital. It starts with falling fireballs. They alert everyone, but they are still neutral towards us. There is archer shooting Mr Oh Dear Sr, which is a timer to complete quickly 1st objective. You have around 4 min 21 seconds before he dies. I avoid triggering rapists objective as it leads to more busts. These couple of minutes I use to loot whole Hospital and then ride lamp above Reception to activate turrets.

All AI will start noticing us. Fall on pillar to not get hurt, then on ladder and open secret wall. Don't do it while explosions are happening, because ghost inside will alert. You can take right maks while crouch walking along wall and leaning for it. Afterwards wait couple of minutes for AI in Reception to calm down. Don't save/load as it's possible for normal people to stop moving in Reception, making the whole ghost bust here.Shoot moss arrow and rope down. Steal Crypt key and go there. Inside douse 8 torches.

In Crypt do everything you can before dealing with statue. You must destroy it (ghost bust #1). It's noisy, so you better use skull to close entrance to this room. Use blackjack for destruction. Then drop stack of fruits from fountains into hole and drop on it to not get hurt. Grab Hot Vase. In zombies area you must skip golden urn on the right, because entering this room spawns zombie looking in your direction and blocking exit.

To exit use west exit from Hospital and go to ramp. From it strafe jump and mantle on wall on opposite side and go to opened gate.

STATS:

Time: 0:24:41; Loot: 3355/4127
Pockets Picked: 1/5; Locks Picked: 2
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 1/1

GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE

[Galaer]

LOSER

PRISON

You start with 2 HP. At the beginning you must wait for Mechanist to go to his post, then read book. This spawns falling rocks and one of them destroys grate in ceiling. Then you must drop it on floor vent, so vent will gradually lower and fall on ground. Since this is connected to putting heavy weight on vent, I consider this as damage property (ghost bust #1).

After getting outside I took vine arrow and used on metal part of high wall. It's loud, but there is nobody nearby to hear noise. Then you need to make jump from not too high and not too low while grabbing vine arrow to avoid falling damage and barbed wire. What's interesting is that in this mission you have access to both vine arrow and rope arrows. Unlike other missions, taking rope arrow while having vine arrow, will not change it into another vine arrow. Vine arrow takes priority, but you can access rope arrow by shooting vine arrow into wood or selecting it through previous/next weapon buttons.

WORKSHOP

To get to the Workshop you need to use Crowbar on stone part of chimney in corner of Complex. I can close stone part, but since it was attached to 4 iron bars and I used Crowbar to raise it, I consider this another damage property (ghost bust #2). In Workshop take invisibility potion and strafe run along right shelf while light will go off to light switch. Take Scrambler and return to wooden ramp. To get out you must use invisibility potion. Use secret elevator leading to Tower.

TOWER

Tower is easy to ghost. There are 2 paintings that must be destroyed for optional objective. Wait for woman to go away, then put Scrambler near sleeping noble and frob Yellow Gem. This initiates scripted alert from noble, which I don't count as a ghost bust. This also summons 2 spider bots. Also script doesn't always start immediately. That's why after frobbing gem I quickly strafe run to ladder behind banner. On ladder I'm safe and spider bots will kill noble, which is one of objectives. Afterwards go to top and take Fuse from antenna. This deactivates all robots, which is excused by objective. As a side effect enemies will notice deactivated robots and alert to that. No idea if I should count that as a ghost bust.

All you need right now is to take Yellow Gem and get out. After a while naked woman ended walking into piano and previously patrolling woman stood in front of bedroom. Because of that I had no problem to grab Yellow Gem. Before you return to Workshop, there is one more thing to do - destroying banner on very high spot. Intended way is by shooting fire arrow, but this is too loud and will alert people from Tower. So you must climb up there and destroy it with Mace. Also turn off light before climb. Then shoot 2 rope arrow (1st lower, 2nd higher), so that you will manage to drop from lower rope to catch higher rope and mantle on banner. Climb on edge of small shelf and cut banner, then shoot another rope arrow closer to you and climb to the bottom. You should avoid fall damage by dropping from rope. Then climb on 2nd rope, grab 3rd rope, grab 2nd rope too, so you will fall on 1st rope. Grab this one too. You can't open gate, because you can only open it with crowbar. Gate has no lock, but I would still count that as damage property. So return to Workshop and open path outside.

RETURN TO PRISON

So now you need to return to Hermit who is imprisoned and release him. This will release all prisoners and they are your allies. To do that go to guard post and use lever. If you do it now, guard will survive and will keep alerting to prisoners and quickly calm down. To have him get killed you need to wait for patroller to appear. Guard will hear the fight and will leave his post. This will kill him. Read book near Hermit.

GUARD POST

Guard Post is accessible through 2nd floor window. Descend to 1st floor and open Main Gate. Be careful to not get spotted by watcher. Also turning off light will 2nd alert guard and soon after he will launch alarm. Also I'm leaving painting and banner for later. There will be full attack on this Complex and this guard will die. Visit also Tavern and douse candle and fireplace. Here you get access to other 2 gems. Also for sake of future attack, leave door opened.

WELL

To get to it you must shoot rope arrow into wooden wall on Tavern and jump on top of well above electric fence. Ghosting Well isn't hard. In dark tunnel it's possible to fall to small tree without getting hurt and you can destroy it, because it's not anyone's property. You can also try to jump and mantle to higher tunnel, which is much harder. Go around spiders and avoid owls, then just do climb to get 20 life arrows and return to portal. To get out you must climb to top of well and jump towards rope, then grab it and safely fall down.

ATTACK ON COMPLEX

Now prisoners should appear in Complex and fighting will start. Because of fights there will be Body Discovery stat. Go through Tavern to treebeasts pit and revive them. There will be more fight at the Main Gate because of that. Return to Prison to revive Hermit. This will let treebeasts to enter Complex and destroy most of enemies. Also here are 2 painting that you want to destroy. Mechanist from Guard Post will probably launch alarm, but soon he will die. Now you can go to Guard Post, turn off light and safely destroy banner and painting. Most of enemies will die, but priestess and training Mechanists should survive. Destroy rest of painting and go to Tavern. Take Pan and KO innkeeper, then bring her to boat at Docks and mission will end.

STATS:

Time: 1:15:10; Loot: 2350/2700
Pockets Picked: 3/4; Locks Picked: 3
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 1
Damage Dealt: 1; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Bodies Discovered by Enemies: 3
Secrets: 4/4

GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE

[klatremus]

Game: Thief 2
FM: Ruins of Originia, Mission 2: Guilded Rivalry

Ghost - Failed
Perfect Thief - Failed
Supreme Ghost - Failed
Perfect Supreme - Failed
Time - 2:09:04
Loot - 14666/14666 (Supreme: 13566/13566)
Pockets Picked - 9/9
Secrets - None
Locks Picked - 44
Backstabs - 0, Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 0, Damage taken - 0
Healing taken - 0, Other Kills - 0, Bodies Discovered - 0
Consumables - 1 water arrow, 1 fire arrow, 2 moss arrow, 2 gas arrows, 1 broadhead arrow, and 1 flare

See the entire report with screenshots here!
Loot list here!
YouTube let's play here!

Comments:
While not nearly as epic or memorable as Mines of Margroth, Guilded Rivalry still showcases YcatX’s immense talent as a fan mission maker. We delve into the deeper ruins of Margroth and encounter trapped deities, a thieves’ guild, and more of Bantar’s creatures. Though it is an acquired taste, it is easy to see why this campaign is on many players’ all-time favorite list.

My main goal was to get through the mirror room in order to find Bantar’s lab. It was apparently located beyond a theives’ guild run by Guildmaster Zilfin. I had to steal four weapons and a contact book from Zilfin, while the lab held the Book of Darkness. My loot goal would be met upon taking the first loot item, since it all carried over from the previous mission. Finally, I was to leave through an Eastern Passage. Most of my inventory items remained from Mines of Margroth, so I already had quite a few objects in my arsenal that could be useful.

Mirror Room Area
Getting through the mirror room was easy once I knew how. I experimented for a long time during playtesting to understand how all the different paintings worked. I thought they had a link to the map with all the same symbols, but I was wrong. It literally took 2 seconds once I realized the solution. Beyond it, the painting on the wall worked like a ladder, which took me a while to realize. I tried with stackables and ropes before grasping the simple truth.

My first problem came in the upcoming hallways. Three ways led to the main cave, two of which went through hallways with blue crystals and some enemies. It was the same crystals from the previous mission that deal damage on impact. I could easily get past it as there were gaps along the wall where I could stay safely on the stone floor. A blue fiend was stationed close to either entrance to the exit staircase, both facing south. A wisp was located just at the foot of the staircase. It always alerted when I came from the southern hallway, so I figured it was also facing south. There is no visible front or back to wisps, so I couldn’t tell until actually alerted. Coming from the north didn’t alert the wisp, but I got spotted by the fiend. I could use an invisibility potion and get through clean (image below), but this was way too early to accept my first Supreme bust. Luckily, there was another way through.



The third way took me through a rushing, underground river system. The current was extremely strong and swept me all the way to the end in a matter of seconds. About halfway through was a dangling rope from a dry cave above leading to some more loot. It wasn’t necessary to go to, but I always want to get all the loot I can for Supreme. I managed to get up there first using my speed potion carried over from mission 1. Then I read on the forum that you can get up there without using a potion at all. After a lot of trial and error, I found a fairly predictable method. You have to stay close to the bottom in order to fight the current better. Pushing against the water I managed to get into an air filled cave underneath the river. There was a fire down there that I had to stay away from. The aforementioned rope hung down into this cave also, and I could grab it close to the surface and climb it all the way up (image below). This was a very difficult move, but it avoided the use of a speed potion and has been reported by several players, so it’s definitely repeatable.



On this floor, the only thing worth reporting was a trap room with a diamond in the ceiling. The trap got triggered by ten ropes being shot into some wooden pegs by the diamond, followed by fireballs being shot from the floor. I managed to avoid triggering it by silently mantling from the side and not by way of the main entrance. I had to use a rope of my own to climb up there and could grab the rope and land softly on the metal frame.

In order to get to the main exit cave, I had to keep following the river to the end. A tomb here had sliding door panels, controlled by a lever behind one of the pillars. I couldn’t flip the lever to close the panels and run out before they shut, so I had to use two potions to block the panels to keep Supreme intact (image below). If you don’t pick up any unnecessary items in mission 1, which strictly speaking is the most Supreme-like approach, you only start with one speed potion. In that case, you’ll have to pick up a different potion later, then come back to close the panels before returning the potion to its original location. I had plenty of potions in my inventory as it was. Busts from previous missions don’t carry over, so I was still good for Supreme.



The whole system of talisman caves wasn’t difficult. There were 3 shadow burricks in the south that were impossible to pass, but I could navigate around them by coming from the northeast to obtain the earth talisman. There were also 3 patrolling thieves in the northwest, but they were easy to circumvent. The talismans were all protected by an elemental cloud, each of which had to be shot by their respective elemental arrow (image below). The talismans didn’t spawn until you did so and they were 100% necessary to complete the mission. Unfortunately, putting out the clouds meant removing light sources, evident from each room going dark. Although this is a design choice by the author and nothing to do with my ghosting ability, it ended up being 4 unavoidable Supreme busts. Sad but true.



Thieves’ Guild
Worked my way around the floor clockwise. Cleaned Residences A and B without issues. It was very tedious picking all the locks for the loot. There was no point to them either, as no enemy ever came into the bedrooms. Zilfin was in his own quarters in the northwest. I had to sneak in through the northern entrance (image below), otherwise he caught me. The hidden rooms behind him had no enemies.



I skipped the prison and the flooded area of the guild halls. They involved potential busts, so I’d tackle them later. After using the elemental talismans, I had to return downstairs and get the deity stones, which was no problem. They were used in the cave beyond in order to proceed. When using the stones, the crystal monolith on top of the red support structure broke (image below). This seemed like a pretty clear example of property damage, which is not allowed for any mode. However, it was a bust forced by the mission’s design and completely unavoidable, and thus easier to accept.



Had to descend to the caves yet again, this time in order to obtain the two mystic eyes from the tombs of Ov and Silvesta. I had to use a fire arrow in each tomb to clear the path. In both cases I checked nearby to see if anyone heard the blasts; neither the thieves nor the shadow burricks even flinched. Both eyes could be obtained without leaving a rope behind, but I had to make some unorthodox jumps and land in a mantle to avoid taking damage. Fully repeatable, so no issues.

Finally I could ascend all the way back to the snow cave entrance. Used my sword to hack away the icicles, which has been deemed allowed due to recent rule clarifications. Only objects made by intelligent creatures are now considered property, not natural objects like ice or rocks. Also had to use a broadhead on what I assume was a flat ice layer blocking the entrance hole. If it is supposed to be glass, then that was property damage and another bust. I couldn’t tell, but it seemed most logical it was ice.

Bantar, Bantar... and Bantar!!
Lots of challenges in the lab area. The first came upon entry, where Bantar stared at his cloning device, but could spot me coming from the hallway (image below). Luckily, the lights within flickered and I could use that to dart in to where the first red assembly line archway provided hardcover. There were 4 patrolling fiends in the distance also, but they couldn’t see me from here. Now I could time the light gem and scoot over to the next hardcover. After the third one, I was permanently dark.



I could sneak over behind Bantar and whack him with my sword, but that didn’t kill him, so I needed two hits. Problem was, this always alerted the fiends. They heard the sounds from the sword or his squeal, I couldn’t tell which. After downing him, I got the lovely objective to kill his clones, all six of them! They appeared on the conveyor belt inside the cloning machine, spawning in hunt mode. I tried releasing both mystic eyes to take care of the clones. They did well for the most part, pelting holy water arrows at him, but they always attracted the fiends, to which they had no offensive power. The fiends didn’t take damage from the arrows. To them it was like getting hit by regular water arrows. The fiends also distracted the eyes, to the point where Bantar would get a few shots in and destroy them. I replayed the scenario like this probably 20 times, and not once did the mystic eyes finish the job. That was thus a lost cause. Plus, this was only attempting to kill the clones; I needed them to take care of the initial Bantar also. I had to find a different method.

I moved on to the inner chamber. I could follow the fiends counterclockwise around the central pillar without getting spotted. Two more fiends patrolled the area over by the lab room itself. Here was also a haunted fireball-shooting mask on the wall. It alerted with regular haunt gasps for first alerts, then started turning on the wall if second alerted. I found a route where I could traverse from underneath the first table over to the long table on the south wall without alerts (see image). However, when emerging in the southwest corner, I got spotted. The light from the burner on the table hit me before I could hide underneath the final table. The screen capture above to the right was the farthest I could get without Supreme busts. I thus retraced my steps and looked for a different solution.

Turning on the iron beasts to fight on my side was now a necessity, if wanting to stay undetected. Getting through the lab without a Ghost bust was impossible, so completing the objectives while staying concealed was now my primary goal. The bots did a great job at keeping it so. They had very accurate shots, much better than archers. I found a nice spot to hide along the eastern wall while monitoring proceedings (first image below). The biggest problem was that the bots’ bombs could ricochet off the wall and end up back at their feet. Two bombs like this and they were out of commission. It took a bit of saving and reloading, but that isn’t against any of the rules. One time, the surviving bot found its way over to the lab and started attacking the mask guardian. Although I was hoping it would destroy it, all it did was set off a chain reaction and blowing up all the explosives in there, while the mask still lived on to see another day. Instead, the most preferable scenario was for the bots to kill all the fiends, which they did after not too many attempts, but also lure over Bantar himself. The best scenario I achieved was the last iron beast killing Bantar plus one of his clones. After this I had to release the mystic eyes. Without the fiends to distract them, they efficiently killed the remaining clones (second image below). They often ended up inside the cloning machine killing the final two or three copies. In that case, the Bantars didn’t stand a chance. I thus ended up getting rid of all the enemies in here without ever getting spotted or dealing damage. Nice! The only bust the way I see it, was destroying the fiends and possibly also alerting the mask.





Back in the lab, the mask was now in a constant first alert state. I could thus travel underneath the tables without further remarks. I could also grab all the goodies I wanted while hiding in the shadows cast by the tables. The Book of Darkness only appeared if I first took the other six books. None of them could be dropped back.

Guild Halls
Since releasing Loknara, all the spiders were now allies of mine. I could thus safely release them from the cage holding the Dagger of Power. They positioned themselves in the northwest hallway of the prison area, attacking the first thieves that came along. The spiders ended up dying quite quickly, but usually downed at least one thief before they perished (image below). I know Ghost rule #5 says: “Garrett must not cause suicides of AI or melees that intentionally cause AI to attack each other.” However, I would claim that is not what was taking place here. First, I did not have the intention, nor did I draw any benefit from the spiders getting killed. Second, opening the gate shouldn’t have caused any fight, as no thief ever patrolled past the cages in the first place. It was only due to an apparent change in the spiders’ patrol route that they ended up in the same vicinity as the thieves. Since there is no way to enter the cage without changing the spiders’ placement like this, I’d say it is due to the mission’s script that the spiders died. I thus take no blame for their demise.



The final obstacle came back in the guild halls, but it was a big one at that. I had to blow up the two boulders that blocked the path to the flooded cave in the southwest (see image). This was quite close to the kitchen, where a stationary fire elemental was placed in the stove. It alerted to hunt mode, along with at least one thief, as well as a mechanist worker bot. I tried using a mine under the water to muffle the blow, but the explosion still took place above the surface. A coal crystal or an explosive charge yielded the same result. I actually think those were louder than just a fire arrow. I accepted yet another bust and finished the mission from there.

UPDATE November 12th, 2021: With much help from Galaer on the TTLG forums, I’ve been able to avoid the vast majority of the Ghost busts in this mission. First, the boulders blocking the entrance to Zilfin’s contact book can be silently destroyed with a lit flare (image below). The worker bot can still alert to this, but only if it is nearby, which is easy to prevent.



Furthermore, Bantar’s lab can be approached from the back by blocking the rolling boulders from reaching the bottom of the ramp (image below). The mask guardian second alerts to hearing the boulders, but this isn’t considered a bust. The boulders trigger as a script when getting close to this area, much like triggering a conversation, not by setting off a trap. If bringing along 3 rubble pieces and a geode, after a few attempts they create a barrier providing enough room to squeeze past the boulders. Up above, you have to douse the torch by the first fiend, getting a first alert in the process. The rest of this floor is easy. This method of reaching the lab also eliminates the need to get the mystic eyes from the tombs, as well as skips the objectives to kill Bantar and his clones, plus destroying his cloning machine.



Lastly, you can prevent the spider-thieves fight when opening the cage to get the Dagger of Power. If the thieves are patrolling together, something they normally do when returning from Bantar’s lab, you can time their patrol and release the spiders just after the thieves pass the western hallway. That way after grabbing the dagger, you can quickly leave through the teleporter and cause the engine to shut off the thieves’ patrol due to lack of proximity. If the stats say no bodies discovered, you know you prevented the fight successfully.

Notes
- Had to remove light sources to obtain each of the four elemental talismans. An author design choice, but Supreme busts nonetheless.
- Using the deity stones broke the crystal monolith guarding the entrance to Bantar’s lair. I interpret this as property damage and a Ghost bust.
- Mossed the ground when throwing the rubble pieces in order to block the big boulders. Supreme bust.
- Doused a torch when entering Bantar’s lair via the back entrance. Also got a first alert from the stationary fiend in the process. Supreme busts.
- Had to release 4 spiders in order to get Zilfin’s Dagger of Power. They normally end up fighting the patrolling thieves, but I left through the teleporter before they met, thus forcing the engine to shut off their patrol. Possibly an engine exploit and thus a bust to Supreme, but not a bust to plain Ghost.

[Galaer]

@klatremus: I played this mission a bit and right now I just entered Bantar's Lab. Few things:

- I don't think that bots destroying and alerting more than just clones should be counted as a ghost bust. True, you activated them, but it was their AI that caused this damage. The same goes for Mystic Eyes and spiders in Prison. I don't even know why you count bots situation as a ghost bust. Didn't you trigger thieves attack in previous mission and manipulated them to kill most of guards. This wasn't even connected to any objective, but you allowed that without problems.

Edit: I watched a bit of your video and I think that using Mystic Eyes should count as a ghost bust as they are part of your inventory. Because of that they should be used to kill only clones and not other enemies. If possible you should try to kill them after they do it's job or manipulate their AI to get stuck somewhere.

- crystal monolith destruction. If there isn't any readable that Bantar himself or some other intelligent creature created, I would count that as natural obstacle, so no damage property. It's possible that ancient people knew about this naturally regenerating obstacle and that's why they created this 10 talismans device to destroy it. By the way, I also think what you shot with arrow was ice.

- Contact Book. You said that you must use fire arrow to destroy 2 rocks, but weirdly enough you can use flares too. So, no explosion needed.

Edit: I heard your explanation about destroying rocks being property damage, because rocks were placed by somebody else. I read that Zilfin hid book there, but in his readable there was no mention about placing rocks in there. Is there any readable in Bantar's Lab mentioning that? Furthermore, I don't think that moving random rocks from one place to another makes it someone's property. Also I would avoid discussions about act of ownership. In other words, every object located in Thieves Guild belong to Guild Master as he's owner of this place. I really think that you are looking too much into this rule.

- Talisman of Fire - how did you get it? On my test run no matter what I did and no matter if door is closed, shadow burricks nearby will always hear explosion and 2nd alert to it.

[klatremus]

Thank you for your feedback, Galaer, but I disagree with every single argument you're making here, except for perhaps the boulders that block entrance to contact book. I agree boulders in general are not 'property', but if they are deliberately placed there by an enemy, I interpreted it as at least an arguable bust. There is no readable that says Zilfin placed the boulders there no, but one readable of his says he hid the contact book in that room. So I reasoned that logically he would have placed the boulders there in order to seal it shut. But I agree this might be allowed still, since they are boulders. I did not know about the flares, and that is a great find, because it will eliminate the bust of alerting the enemies using the fire arrow!

The bots destroying the fiends I see as the clearest bust in the mission. It is not comparable to the thief-guard fight in mission one, because that is just triggered by you starting a conversation, which is a script. Those have always been allowed to trigger for Ghost. And you say I "manipulated them to kill most of guards". I absolutely did not. All I did was trigger the conversation, the rest happened on its own. I even avoided opening a door to the shop, because I am not allowed to lure the thieves in there to kill the shopkeeper, even though I wanted the shopkeeper to die. In Bantar's lab I deliberately clicked the button because I needed the fiends to die, as the mystic eyes couldn't kill the clones on their own. It doesn't matter if it is Bantar or Zilfin's bots, I was the one turning them on, which I could easily have avoided. This is not a script, but instead a direct gameplay element with a specific purpose.

I also find it surprising you think using the Mystic eyes is a bust but not using the robots... The eyes only killed the clones but nobody else, and killing the clones is a direct objective. Killing the fiends is not, which the bots did. Plus they alerted the guardian mask in the next room too.

The crystal monolith is to me a clear creation of an intelligent being. It is even located on top of a symmetrical metal frame structure. How would such a structure naturally occur? You don't need a readable to tell you something like that is created.

The Talisman of Fire I got by using a fire arrow. I closed the door first, but I got no alerts. I've done this 3-4 times with the same result.

[Galaer]

@klatremus:

1. Boulders - when I went to ruined room my conclusion was that these boulders blocked passage due to bad condition of this flooded room. Boulders are heavy and Zilfin is a mage, so he's weak physically. Especially trying to put one heavy boulder on another would in flooded room would be really difficult. And since he was secretive about hiding Contact Book, I doubt he would ask anyone for help. Also what about destroying boulders leading to Mystic Eyes? You get instruction from deity to destroy them. Doesn't that mean that these boulders were placed by this deity and it's property?

2. About bots - I don't count that ghost bust, because you only activate bots. You have no way to control their AI. And I disagree with you about situation from previous mission - you also triggered conversation. You didn't need to go there as it wasn't connected to any objective, but you still triggered conversation. And then through lots of saving and loading you manipulated thieves to kill most of guards. That's the same situation, it's just trigger that changes.

3. Mystic Eyes - my reasoning is simple, Mystic Eyes are part of your inventory. If you would throw mine, then damaging random enemy or explosion heard by other enemies would count as a ghost bust. If you would throw frogbeast egg and enemy would see it or heard explosion, I would count it as a ghost bust. So if Mystic Eyes attack enemies and alert them, I count that as a ghost bust too. If it wouldn't be part of your inventory, but rather trapped AI, I would say it would be OK. But not in current situation.

4. Crystal monolith - I don't buy your speculation, I really think this is natural creation, not made by anyone else. These kind of crystals that look like they were shaped by someone intelligent appear sometimes in crystal caves in other FMs. So if there is no readable, yours theory is just speculation.

5. Talisman of Fire - I actually tried that and then quickly run to burricks and I would always hear their alert. Maybe I didn't try that hard enough. I'm gonna try this again during my ghost run.

[klatremus]

1. You have convinced me about the boulders, I agree they are not property, and we don't know if Zilfin put them there so that shouldn't be a bust. It could be him, but then again it might not be.

2. Here you are just using your personal opinion and not the rules. Rule #5: "Garrett must not cause suicides of AI or melees that intentionally cause AI to attack each other, with the exception of rule 12." Rule #12 then says: "AI behaviors caused by programmed scripts and not caused by Garrett's being seen or heard, are allowed." The difference between the two situations you are comparing is precisely what is stated in rule 12: Programmed scripts. Triggering a conversation is allowed as long as Garrett isn't seen or heard because it is a programmed script. Pushing a button that sets off combat bots that act as allies of Garrett in order to intentionally kill enemies go against rule #5 and it is NOT a programmed script as in rule #12. Also, saving and reloading is NOT manipulating AI. Manipulation is leading them in certain directions or causing them to perform specific actions, say by pushing them, blocking entrances or deliberately opening doors. Saving/reloading has nothing to do with the ghost rules and should not be included in the discussion.

3. The Mystic eyes become AIs when you release them from inventory, so they act exactly the same way as the combat bots. That's why I reacted to you allowing the bots but not the eyes. The reason I don't think the eyes are busts is because they are only attacking and killing objectives (Bantar's clones), and Garrett is never seen or heard in the process. It is not the same as a mine which is a weapon constantly and can be disarmed and retaken to become part of your inventory. You say: "If it wouldn't be part of your inventory, but rather trapped AI, I would say it would be OK.". They are trapped AI that get released once you use them. I never tried getting rid of them like you said, but I think if I did, I would have to kill them which would show up as damage and kills in the stats.

4. I am quite certain that 9 out of 10 people if you ask them would say the crystal monolith has been made by something intelligent, whether it be deities, humans or mages. Extremely few would say it more likely is a natural object that was created by random non-directed processes. If it was such a crystal placed in a random crystal cave sure, but not when it is on top of a metal framework in a room (not a cave) with statues and images on the walls. Sorry, but you'll never convince me of that one buddy.

5. Try it again. The sound of the fire arrow impact lasts a bit longer than it sounds, so don't open the door too quickly. Run over and lean into the door right after the shot and you'll hear they don't alert.

[Galaer]

@klatremus:

2. But the fact that bots are programmed to help player is also scripted behavior. Normally bots want to kill player. And you aren't seen or heard when pushing button. Plus there is readable explaining that bots were reprogrammed.

3. Mystic Eyes are part of inventory, so they can be used in any place. This means that their use is unlimited unlike programmed AI that exist only in certain places (like bots that can be used only in Bantar's Lab). Egged enemies can be frogbeasts or spiders or some kind of robots. It's not common, but it's not rare either. And you say it's OK to release them, because you aren't seen or heard. But when you use mine you also can be not seen or heard and it's still bust. The thing is that Eyes don't kill clones instantly, instead they alert him and slowly kill him. I would compare this to use of your arrows. You can shoot Bantar without being seen or heard, he's alerted by arrow, but not by seeing or hearing you. The fact it's not an instant death means it's a ghost bust. Since Mystic Eye is part of your tools, I would classify it as part of your weapons.

4. The problem is that even in real life there are natural places that would look like they have been shaped by human. For example here. So what if 9 out of 10 people would say that these places were shaped by human? They were obviously tricked by Mother Nature. Another example is here. Check them.

My theory of this crystal piece is simply - it fell down from giant crystal covering ceiling after previous use of 10 talismans in order to destroy it. It's well shaped, you say? Doesn't these red and blue crystals are a bit too well shaped to be part of exploded giant crystal? Especially red crystals.

Also looks like damage is being visualized in form of magic bolts firing from top of room. Did you tried protect this crystal from these magic missiles? For example you could put rock on top of it. If crystal would still be destroyed despite of this, I would count this as a script.

[Galaer]

MORTUOS LIBER CAMPAIGN

MISSION 1 - THE BOOK

EMPTY CITY

At the beginning city is pretty empty and AI is neutral. This will end when you visit Armorer's Shop, so I'm gonna leave it for later and first loot how many houses I can. I will not have access to rope arrow though as it is in Barracks in City Watch and it's door is unfrobbable until you visit Armorer. There is 6 crates that you need for this part (4 are in Sewers and 2 in one of houses). Speaking of Sewers there are mini spiders there, but they are neutral, so you can ignore them. Also in City Watch there is a way to turn off light by damaging generator fuse with screwdriver, but that's damage property plus it summons 2 patrollers and sheriff, so it's actually harder to ghost empty so far City Watch.

4 crates you need to get to balcony near Mechanist House without rope arrow. 2 crates you need to enter and exit Mansion, but first you must get Hook from one of warehouses. This Hook will remove invisible wall around Mansion. The intended way to get over Mansion fence is to use Hook on wire. As a result of cutscene outside guard will get KO-ed. To prevent that I'm using stack of 2 crates. To exit I need to take 2 crates from the other side of fence and do a stack on top of gras slope. Then just strafe jump and mantle on fence. When you are in garden outside guard will start noticing you. To enter and exit house you must be very quick. Thanks to that you will get earlier code to safe and Sheriff's ring. Thanks to code you will get Door Handle. After looting city just go to Armorer's Shop fort Wrench and sword.

LEAVING CITY

You can leave city now, but there is couple of guards that spawn with purses and Barracks to check for rope arrow and more loot. Most of purses is easy to get. The most problematic is guard with purse under stairs near murder scene. You can very quickly go along Tavern's wall or rope up to balcony and jump+mantle to terrace. Afterwards go through Sewers to Armorer and leave city.

HAUNTED HOUSE

At the Cemetery you must cut 3 branches with Saw to get to portal. Then at Haunted House you must destroy mirror (ghost bust #1). This must be done as it is requirement for Mortuos Liber book to spawn. And we must to destroy it in creative way - by playing high pitch sound from victrola. Then you must return back to city and back to this house.

In house you will get objective of creating Talisman of Life. One of diamonds for it is in newly available room. I mossed floor near hole, because later corridor will be patrolled by haunt and it's very easy to make noise when going through this parts of wall lying on floor. 2nd diamond is on roof. To get down you can drop on west rock. 3rd part is in fireplace and last is in basement. After taking it you must go along barrels, because soon will fall on floor lying zombie and you really don't want to touch and wake him up. Because of executioner patrolling 1st floor you need to leave via window.

Then you return to Cemetery and use talisman on corpse. Then you need to throw Mortuos Liber at it, which spawn 2 haunts at Cemetery. Going through Cemetery while hiding from there is quite tricky. That's why I'm throwing book while standing in shadow near portal. You enter Haunted House through window again and go on 2nd floor for Scepter. Getting it is easy, getting out is harder. That's the reason I used moss arrow earlier. Use Scepter on claw and mage will appear and destroy door of his room and also kill every enemy AI. I'm guessing that this is also the reason why I scored Body Discovery in my stats. Or maybe the reason is murder person in city. Return to your room to finish this mission.

STATS:

Time: 1:14:57; Loot: 4839/5154
Pockets Picked: 4/6; Locks Picked: 26
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Bodies Discovered by Enemies: 1
Secrets: 0/0

GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE

[Galaer]

MORTUOS LIBER CAMPAIGN

MISSION 2 - GETTING HOME

Daylight mission. It is the same city like in previous mission, but we visit different houses. No blackjack, so ghosting is encouraged. That means there will be no test run. You can avoid fan destruction in order to get to Armorer's window. Instead go outside, mantle on metal fence and jump+mantle to window. Also don't let Butcher in his shop see any opened door or else he will become hyper sensitive and easily go into search mode.

STATS:

Time: 1:58:32; Loot: 1906/2086
Pockets Picked: 0/0; Locks Picked: 12
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 2/2

GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: POSSIBLE

MISSION 3 - THE ASYLUM

Another ghosting mission. What's interesting is enemies will spawn only after 15 min will pass, so if you are quick you can beat mission before haunts will spawn. Since it's ghosting mission, there will be no test run again. I start with 4 HP and one of my objectives is to heal. To get to lower floor I must smash bricks with hammer (ghost bust #1). There is only 1 haunt in Basement to dodge.

STATS:

Time: 0:12:37; Loot: 175/175
Pockets Picked: 0/0; Locks Picked: 0
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 6
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 0/0

GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE

MISSION 4 - THE HIDEOUT

Another no blackjack mission, so no test run. This mission is pretty easy to ghost too. Loot is easy to find. There is objective to kill old man. Weirdly enough he counts as innocent victim even though he's part of thieves guild and he can attack us. Getting to exit is the hardest part as you need to walk behind patroller, picklock exit door a bit, then hide in one of rooms and repeat. Also after opening door, be careful, on the other side of it is gravel, which can 2nd alert patrolling thief. I also got bonus objective for finding Sheriff's ring.

STATS:

Time: 0:17:48; Loot: 1210/1210
Pockets Picked: 0/0; Locks Picked: 7
Back Stabs: 1; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 30; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 1; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 0/0

GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: SUCCESS

[Galaer]

MALAZAR'S INSCRUTABLE TOWER

This is a puzzle mission with blackjack, which vanishes from inventory after entering Tower. Most of enemies are living statues. If you look at them, they can't move. This can be used when you make some noise or you will be seen. Just find shadow or go very far while still looking at statue. Eventually it will calm down. It was discussed that this abuse is allowed for regular ghost as it leaves no indication of alert (statues don't talk or make any other noise).

TOWER

First challenge is 1st living statue. In order to progress you must shoot window's lock (ghost bust #1), then mantle on it, quickly turn towards statue and move backwards to not fall back into corridor. Then hide on ledge while having only part of statue visible. Wait couple of minutes for it to calm down. Interesting thing is that statue still has idle animation just like when it's not alerted. Rest of statues is much easier to deal, but soon we will return to 1st living statue as we must drop into pool and quickly grab Ring of Dispelling floating in air. To avoid visible alert you must drop from south side while looking north. Wait in pool for couple of minutes for statue to calm down.

With Ring of Dispelling you can destroy barriers with stone Pagan faces behind. While Pagan face walls should count as made by human, I don't count that as damage property, because the way it vanishes suggests that stone face is just illusion. For example in place of stone face in garden appears metal door.

Lava cave may be tricky. Ifrit sometimes usually look at ladder, but sometimes randomly can look into opposite direction and spot you even though he shouldn't. Later you will return to this cave to destroy Ifrit. To get to ladder I used invisibility potion. Then I poured water on Ifrit, which killed him (ghost bust #2) and allowed me to get Golem's Head. To get out from Dining Room you must destroy 2 lower wooden planks (ghost bust #3).

ICE CASTLE

This is the trickiest area. Here are ice golems and a bit darker tile are falling tiles. If you stand on them you get glued to them and fall into pit below. It works the same on enemies. First go right. You must jump from bridge on right ledge, then go to corner on the right of ice golem, crouch and go into room. Run along right wall for 2 coin stacks and return the same way on ledge. Jump over dark tiles to nugget. To return on bridge you must do tricky strafe jump over falling tile to edge of ledge, which will drop you towards pit. To save yourself you must mantle on bridge.

Before you go left, you need to have 2 water arrows with you. There is 5 water arrows in total. 3 are used for magic beans vines. There are 2 water arrows in shower and 3 in ruins (1 in waterfall and 2 in water). Now you need to do tricky strafe jump+mantle from bridge to ledge after falling tile. Then go inside left passage. There you must strafe jump over falling wooden platform. 2nd floor is much easier. Going behind ice golem is easy and to ghost ice golem near ladder you must douse 2 torches. The rest of the mission is easy.

STATS:

Time: 1:59:22; Loot: 4460/4850
Pockets Picked: 0/0; Locks Picked: 0
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 6
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 0/0

GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE

[marbleman]

For what it's worth, here's my take on Guilded Rivalry:

- There mere action of activating the bots, i.e. pressing the button, is not a bust, but all the alerts caused by that are. Whether the damage inflicted on fiends is a bust is irrelevant becuase the alerts already are a direct consequence of something the player does.

- Using Mystic Eyes is not a bust in itself, but alerting Bantar clones is. Mystic eyes are just a tool, similar to mines, frogbeasts, or the sword. The fact that they are AIs is irrelevant.

- The boulders aren't property even if they were placed there by Zilfin himself. The crystal monolith though, I don't know. I'd compare it to the mirror in Scarlet Cascabel, which has been deemed property.

And there's a clear difference between triggering a conversation and pressing a button, as is stated and explained in the rules.