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Thread: Sean Connery has passed

  1. #26
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    The forum's resident literal Nazi. In his own words.
    Wait, why do we have one of those? Is it like the internet forums equivalent of hoarding or something?

  2. #27
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Nah, that's not true.
    We used to have a bloke here that was a lot worse.
    His screenname was Dethtoll or something (can't remember how he spelled it). He was terrible.
    He was a prime example of male passive-aggressive testosterone-filled mentally messed up person.
    He was the reason that I skipped coming here for years.
    Luckily he's gone.
    Talking of passive-aggressive...

  3. #28
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Apparently the words "Taking the Death Toll" flew over Gryzemuis's head like a 747.
    But it's true that person you speak of is gone now. Don't say people can't change that fundamentally.

    As for Sean Connery ... I posted what I thought were some iconic characters or scenes of his, but it's impossible to miss that almost all of them had or hinted at something rotten at their core. But then again he was also impossibly charismatic and he's the kind of person, if they were your mentor for a training montage, it'd be so easy for him to generate a lot of affection and loyalty on a human level, even when you're recognizing he has a side of him that can't be tolerated, like, in the later years, a grandfather you admire & love whom you wish didn't have this side to him, much less to be famous & virtually embodying what that side stood for, all the same, at least the parts that diminished others. You want to keep the parts that seem to lift others.

  4. #29
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    Apparently the words "Taking the Death Toll" flew over Gryzemuis's head like a 747.
    Very true.
    I understand what "death toll" means. I looked it up in the dictonairy even.
    However, I have no idea about the subtext of expressions in which those words are used.
    And I've not been able to find those with a quick google.
    My apologies for not being a native english-speaker.

  5. #30
    Well said dema 👍

  6. #31
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirith View Post
    Talking of passive-aggressive...
    OK, I admit I wrote those words to kick someone in the shins.
    However, I am not even sure who or why I am kicking.
    Am I correct to assume that June Gloom is in fact the same person as Dethtoll ? And that she/he has changed gender ?
    If not, why is there the text: "Taking the Death Toll" ?
    Is there meaning to the fact that Dethtoll spelled his name different from "Death Toll" ?
    My apologies about all the obvious things I've missed. I'm probably the only one here.

    But it is true that Dethtoll has irritated the fuck out of me in the past.
    Ignoring posters only helps to a certain degree.
    I've been on the net since the eighties (daily Usenet reader/poster since 1989).
    And I had never seen someone as blunt and unpleasant as Dethtoll.

  7. #32
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    We used to have a bloke here that was a lot worse.
    His screenname was Dethtoll [...]
    Luckily he's gone.
    June Gloom used to be dethtoll, in case you didn't know.

  8. #33
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: melon labneh
    Quote Originally Posted by JarlFrank View Post
    Hey, I'm not the one constantly wallowing in misantrophy and expressing some sort of happiness/gratitude (he won't be missed, about time that dinosaur hit the tar pit) over the death of a beloved actor because he was "misogynist" or whatever.
    Not a fan of Charlie Hebdo, I take it?

  9. #34
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    June Gloom used to be dethtoll, in case you didn't know.
    Thanks for the confirmation.
    I suspected it. But I didn't know for sure.
    I've not been reading much in the "Member's Chat". Maybe if I had, it would have been more obvious.

  10. #35
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    You know in defense of June Gloom, I used to be one of his strongest detractors, back in the day. But then I actually got to know him and you know what, I like him and he is quite often on the money with some of his viewpoints. So dont believe everything you read on the internet or something

  11. #36
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    As for Sean Connery, he was a good actor, really distinctive, especially with they voice and accent of his.
    I mostly only watched his later films, such as his portrayal of Henry Jones, which were a lot less masculine than things like Bond.
    I was never really interested in Bond for some reason.

    No idea what he was like as a person. Most of those old British actors seem to go a bit funny in their old age, I've noticed.

    June's post seems incredibly harsh to me, but I guess I don't know the context.

  12. #37
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Pre-me too movement, I'll bet many (straight) men wanted to be James Bond. He was an icon for decades. Now not so much. You can look at it with a present day lens, but the attitudes of now were not the same then. If you look to many of the hero types of the 60's when Bond started it was common place for the male hero lead to sleep with women left, right and center. Male fantasy of the time. Look at Captain Kirk, he was sleeping with nearly every woman on the set. Hercules (of the live action 90's show), Conan the Barbarian, the Fonz (Happy Days), Shaft. All male fantasy.
    Last edited by icemann; 2nd Nov 2020 at 11:13.

  13. #38
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    I guess I don't know the context.

  14. #39
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Quote Originally Posted by raph View Post
    IMHO it was pretty clear, in a thread about Connery, that we were chiefly, albeit not explicitly, referring to his tenure as Bond.
    Yeah, that's not what I got from it. Seems blanket to me and as I say, the later Bonds are much much less promiscuous and misogynistic.

    I find the Craig/Bellucci scene in Spectre quite uncomfortable to watch, for instance, and that's the latest one.
    I don't remember what happened there, but I didn't like the film overall and haven't watched it again.

    In any case, in terms of memorable performances, I second your Henry Jones choice, and I'll throw in his William of Baskerville in The Name of the Rose as a contender as well.

    Yes! Must watch Name of the Rose again.

    Let me know what you think about Zardoz too, this will be an interesting experiment.
    It's not on any of my streaming services

    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    Pre-me too movement, I'll bet many (straight) men wanted to be James Bond.
    What has metoo got to do with? We recognised at school that Bond was terrible to women. I especially remember that Man With The Golden Gun scene because my gf's bff and I discussed it at some length when I was in 6th Form and 17! That was in the 90s! And that was Moore, not even Connery.

  15. #40
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    Yeah, that's not what I got from it. Seems blanket to me and as I say, the later Bonds are much much less promiscuous and misogynistic.
    Pierce Brosnan (the prior Bond), still had much of the promiscuity's + sexual innuendo female character names. Xenia Onatopp. Come on :P. I can't remember any of the other Brosnan Bond films after Goldeneye, as they were all terrible. Austin Powers was around that time as well. Comedy sure. But was still a male fantasy style thing.



    To refresh your memory.

    Misogynistic though, sure that was dropped by Brosnan, but Roger Moore still had that.

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    What has metoo got to do with?
    Not been one male power fantasy that I can recall since that point. That's what I'm basing that off. According to Google, Metoo was 2017. I definitely can't think of a single one between then and now.

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    We recognized at school that Bond was terrible to women. I especially remember that Man With The Golden Gun scene because my gf's bff and I discussed it at some length when I was in 6th Form and 17! That was in the 90s! And that was Moore, not even Connery.
    That is not a conversation that ever went down in schools over here. The character, male scrub and all was seen as a legend for a very long time.

    I can't recall that scene. Is that the one where the female love interest was turned to gold? There is so many Bond films, that remembering a specific scene is a needle in a haystack.
    Last edited by icemann; 2nd Nov 2020 at 12:11.

  16. #41
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: In my room
    In 2012, the polling organization YouGov conducted a survey of US Bond fans, with a particular focus on their preferences for actors. Sean Connery led in all groups, which were categorized by age cohort, gender, and party affiliation. It found that 60% of Americans described themselves as fans and that fandom "crosses gender, party, and age lines." [...] It found that 52% of the Facebook users who described themselves as Bond fans were female. [...]
    Mark O'Connell published Catching Bullets: Memoirs of a Bond Fan in 2012, describing his fandom in the context of being gay.
    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_...n_demographics

  17. #42
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    icemann - I'm talking Golden Gun, not Goldfinger.

  18. #43
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: In my room
    Just going by the content I would agree that Bond is a straight male power fantasy. But apparently many women and gay people can see the fun in it. So maybe this is more a question of taking things a bit too seriously.

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    You can look at it with a present day lens, but the attitudes of now were not the same then.
    It is important to remember that social norms were different even a single decade ago and people tend to be heavily influenced by the times they live through and they people they live with.

    A lot of his actions and personal beliefs are deplorable when viewed with a current day lens, but they were far closer to the norm for his youth and young adulthood.

  20. #45
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: In my room
    Through the 60/70/80s the moralists were solely found on the right wing, while pop cultural creators were on the left and not moralistic (or even anti-moralistic). This indeed has changed a lot.
    Partly for good reasons, like ousting rape culture. But partly it's also a cheap way to dethrone the older generation (those despicable "boomers") and take over the sovereignty of interpreting cultural life by introducing often narrow minded and puritanical viewpoints.

  21. #46
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    More than any changing social mores, I tend to view Bond through a pre-Archer and post-Archer lens. I don't know anything that deconstructs the genre and the character more thoroughly.

  22. #47
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    I'm not sure how acceptable these norms were to those who were the victims of it. They just had less of a voice back in those days.
    The people who were comfortable with it were those who weren't negatively affected.

  23. #48
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: In my room
    It doesn't seem very helpful to divide the world into victims and perpetrators because more often than not they are one and the same.

  24. #49
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    I'm also not so sure about those perspectives. Even today people live in dreadfully misogynistic situations and cultures and feel that that's normal, where to many the idea is horrifying. Of course many wish to get out but I think many find it normal.

    Take the hijab, for example. In Iran people suffer to protest their use, here in the UK I've met many professional women who wear the same proudly and demand the right to be able to do so.

  25. #50
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: In my room
    Yeah. So anyway, Sean Connery, professional old guy, beloved by anyone (except Russia and June Gloom) dies at old age. The world reminisces a moment and then moves on.

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