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Thread: Guard behavior: is this intentional or a Newdark quirk?

  1. #1
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2020

    Guard behavior: is this intentional or a Newdark quirk?

    Hi, this is my first post on this forum. English isn't my native language, so please excuse me if some of the post feels weird or inappropriate. I'm uploading this post because I recently found a behavior of the guard enemies that seem "illogical" and wondered if this is intentional(that is, it is something that has always existed since the Olddark version) or a Newdark quirk.

    The thing is, even though I first played the Thief games a few years ago, I never distracted the guards using broadhead arrows(or anything, really). So when I started another playthrough of Thief Gold with Tfix this week, I started to wonder how the distraction actually works in the game.

    The level was Cragscleft Prison. I spotted a guard patrolling. shot a broadhead arrow to the nearby surface. Guard started to investigate the area, and I was able to blackjack him easily. It's all predictable stuff. I reloaded the save, and did another distraction by using the same method(broadhead arrow).

    However, the weird behavior began once the guard ended the investigation and was returning to his usual patrol route. During this process of AI, whenever I approached him, the guard instantly recognized me even though I was behind his back; it was as if the guard had a sixth sense and somehow noticed me right away.

    What is more, sometimes, when I save the game during the "returning to the patrol" ai process, and reload that save, the guard oftentimes just stood still and didn't return to the patrol route. Again, the guard still suddenly spotted me even though I was approaching him behind his back.

    While Thief's AI sometimes felt rather rudimentary or glitchy, this behavior seems especially weird and I can't help but wonder if this was intentional(or a vanilla glitch that hasn't been fixed) or one of the quirks caused by using the Newdark version. I searched the internet but couldn't find anybody mentioning this, so I'm uploading this post.

    Note: After experimenting a few times in the Bafford's Manor level, the behavior mentioned in this post seems to not happen when you approach the guard in an area with no light. Also, I uninstalled and re-installed the game several times, but the behavior was still re-produceable.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2015
    Location: Shawano County, Wisconsin
    Both of these sound like issues that have been around since OldDark.

    Often, once an AI reaches the highest alert level, it will never quite settle down to fully unaware anymore. It may resume its usual routine after it loses track of you, but its eyes and ears are still as sensitive as when it was fully alerted. Even a little bit of illumination can be enough for the AI to notice you and attack, even when you're behind it, as you've discovered. This may have been an oversight by LGS, or it may have been a deliberate decision to simulate the AI being extra vigilant and on edge now that it knows an intruder is here. I'm not sure.

    In regards to the AI returning to its normal location but stopping if you save and reload, this seems to be because the "go home" process doesn't check whether or not the AI actually gets there. So when you save and reload during this time, the "go home" process has already completed and the AI assumes it's already "home" despite being somewhere else.

    That's how I understand these issues, at least. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can provide extra clarity.

  3. #3
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by Grandmauden View Post
    Both of these sound like issues that have been around since OldDark.

    Often, once an AI reaches the highest alert level, it will never quite settle down to fully unaware anymore. It may resume its usual routine after it loses track of you, but its eyes and ears are still as sensitive as when it was fully alerted. Even a little bit of illumination can be enough for the AI to notice you and attack, even when you're behind it, as you've discovered. This may have been an oversight by LGS, or it may have been a deliberate decision to simulate the AI being extra vigilant and on edge now that it knows an intruder is here. I'm not sure.

    In regards to the AI returning to its normal location but stopping if you save and reload, this seems to be because the "go home" process doesn't check whether or not the AI actually gets there. So when you save and reload during this time, the "go home" process has already completed and the AI assumes it's already "home" despite being somewhere else.

    That's how I understand these issues, at least. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can provide extra clarity.
    I see. Thank you for the answer; it definitely clarifies the question I had. While this behavior seems like an oversight to me, the guards being "extra vigilant" sounds like a good justification. As for the AI not returning to their original location, I guess I should be careful when I save while the AI is on alert in the future.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    The AI have a number of vision cones that define how well they can see, and each cone covers a specified range of angles. Alert levels are enabled on specific cones, so the cone which covers the area directly behind the guard is not enabled or used at alert level 0. When a guard is at alert level 0 they won't turn around, but if they have reached alert level 3 and have not yet returned to alert level 0 they will react to your presense. Bystanders are set to return no lower than alert level 1 if they reached alert level 3, but I don't remember if the guards are set the same way. I do hear the guards babbling again so I think they do return to alert level 0.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    one thing i know forsure,a guard can be fully alerted and if you in a dark area where your gem is not lite up and you get behind guard you can knock him out with blackjack

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