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Thread: Crypto

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    Location: Germany

    Crypto

    I was wondering who of our members are into crypto.

    If you are, like me, please post in this thread.

    My first idea is to learn who is into it, my second idea is we could use this thread to exchange thoughts on certain coins that we invested in or think about investing in.

    Also this can and is supposed to be an encouragement and a gateway for those who don't know anything crypto yet. I can provide some help to explain exchanges, coin listing websites, wallets, etc. I'm relatively new to this (June 2020).

    My current Portfolio:



    You don't have to share your portfolio like me and if you do, please make sure to black the amounts.

    The ideas for this thread are still growing and I'm happy about any feedback and people who participate in the discussion.

  2. #2
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    FYI, cryptocurrencies are a scam. They are impractical. They are unsafe. They are kind of a ponzi scheme. They are not privacy-friendly. They are environmental-unfriendly.

    Lots of people have made money through cryptocurrencies. And more will. And lots of people have lost money. And many more will lose money. It's pure gambling.
    Last edited by Gryzemuis; 12th Feb 2021 at 11:09.

  3. #3
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    I've been researching cryptoart and crytopgaming recently, and have been toying with the idea of making my own or being a dealer for it. I like the underlying tech of a distributed database and the whole ethos of creating more security not by closing the public off but actually making a thing as transparent and as widely open to the public as possible. It kind of fits the open source ethos.

    That said, I tend to think using it just for currency is about the least imaginative use of its potential (I might even protest at using the term "crypto" to only that one use of it), and I really dislike the mining aspect of bitcoin and some others, which is just wasted work and resources that do nothing good for the world except pump more carbon in the atmosphere. But some other cryptocurrencies are a little more responsible. And it's something I still follow because even things like cryptoart still work like cryptocurrencies in the underlying economics of it, and of course it's natural to integrate crytpocurrency with other cryptocommodities once you're already working in the world.

    Edit: Even to the extent I'm into the cryptocurrency, it's just like it'd be for other currency (buying & selling) and not for speculation, which is really no different than forex trading and I think at some point it'll just fall entirely into that category. It's a thing people can do if they have heaps of time and money to sink into doing it properly, but I don't think it's such a good return on the life energy spent on it when you could be creating something useful or enlightening for the world. Or well, flipping the point around, in the long run I think you can make more money doing forex trading. I worry how bubble-like cryptocurrencies look, and the fact that unlike national currencies, there's not like this massive userbase underneath the speculation that gives me a little more confidence that, say, the currency of Tajikistan isn't going to just collapse one day, or at least you'll get some forewarning about it.
    Last edited by demagogue; 12th Feb 2021 at 07:19.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    FYI, cryptocurrencies are a scam. They are impractical. They are unsafe. They are kind of a ponzi scheme. They are not privacy-friendly.
    https://www.coingecko.com/en

    You are talking like my father who is very stubborn and missing out this unique opportunity.
    Basically everything you said here is wrong. 1. Nothing is unsafe. You are responsible for what coins you buy. You have to chose wisely. Everyone can create a coin and some people of course try to make profit. It's not wise to invest in those small risky unknown (yolo) coins. The biggest cryptos are a very safe investion. They have products, working teams and agenda, whitepaper, smart contract etc . You can read them. It's very transparent. However, of course there are also "scam coins" out there you should not touch. 2. They are practical. You can cash out any time you want on your bank account. 3. They are safer than FIAT (€/$ etc). Look how much worthless $ play money the US is printing and dumping into the market causing inflation and big crash. Crypto is decentralized and much safer. Again. It's not 2015 anymore. 4. It's no ponzi scheme. It's simple supply and demand. 5. It's more privacy friendly than your bank account.

    Example: https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/the-graph



    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Lots of people have made money through cryptocurrencies. And more will. And lots of people have lost money. And many more will lose money. It's pure gambling.
    There is some truth in this. But it is definately not pure gambling! You can analyze the chart and numbers. Everything is transparent. It's not the half criminal thing it was 5 years ago and what you think it still is! Today there is over 1 trillion worth of dollar in crypto! Big companies invested in crypo. Recent example: Tesla invested 1.5 b into Bitcoin 2 days ago! And that's just the beginning! It's the cataclysmic event crypto needed. Everyone who is smart invests in coins. But wait for the next small dip. We live in exciting times. I'm hoping to "retire" within the next 3 years. - But not from cryto of course. It's the future.



    Edit: Hi demagogue I'm super busy atm, but I like your response! I'll try to respond to it another time.
    Last edited by Karras35; 12th Feb 2021 at 07:56.

  5. #5
    BANNED
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    They might be unstable now, but will they always be?

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    In the long run, everything is eventually stable.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    The mining is definitely very bad for the environment, at a time when we can least afford it.

    So many computers burning energy to perform pointless calculations.

  8. #8
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    It's not just the mining. Normal operations also require lots of computing by lots of computers. Costing an extra-ordinary amount of electricity, as well as compute-power. That's why I linked to the wikipage about scalability. The compute burden for normal operations is so high, that you can't use cryptocurrency-payments for ordinary daily use. That's why I said cryptocurrencies are not practical.

  9. #9
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    They might be unstable now, but will they always be?
    There should be shocks that kill off the fringe ones, but I expect (admittedly without having studied it seriously) that the major ones should stabilize to work like any stable foreign currency. That's I was trying to say before. But once the bubble pattern is over, then it's even more like normal forex trading, where there's not much change over time, and those markets are the most fluid there are and even more like pure gambling. Well I guess it's all gambling, the difference just being one's risk tolerance. The more volatile it is, the higher the risk/return curve.

    Since I've been studying Myanmar recently, that's actually a good case study. When it opened up from 2010 and FDI first started coming in, that would have been a decent time to invest in Myanamr's currency (kyat) or derivative currencies like Thai baht, because it'd just opened up to foreign investment. While the output wasn't increased all that much, the derivative of the output shot up like a rocket because simple inefficiencies that made a huge impact were addressed, things like companies being allowed to open a bank account & not have to store their money in giant bricks of $5 for the first time in 60 years, and suddenly a population of 60 million goes from 0.6% to 60% cell phone ownership 2010-2018. But the coup is going to instantly undo a lot of that, because you can't do foreign business under a xenophobic military government that just had a coup out of paranoia of foreign interference. That's volatility; high risk/reward.

    I haven't studied the dogecoin market lol, but I just have the intuition market behavior stoked more by rushes of dopamine, seratonin, and glucocordicoids are more volatile than ones slow cooking by cold calculation when traders have 40+ windows of financial data open in their browser and growth is grounded in some kind of real social-economic thing sustainably happening.
    Last edited by demagogue; 12th Feb 2021 at 19:31.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    Location: Germany
    Update:



    https://imgur.com/0oGEl21

    Started with 8.000 $ in July 2020 atm it's worth 42.000$.

    Buying mainly on Binance. Buy & Hold. Zero work.

    At this rate it will reach 60-80 k until end of July.

    Same performance again:

    450 k - 800 k in July 2022. But I would already be happy if it's "only" 250 k.

    Just sharing. I'm really excited about this and wish more people would take the opportunity.

    If you know a friend who is doing it, I advise you to ask him how. It's really simple.
    _________________________

    Check out the total market capitalization of all cryptocurrencies together:

    Yesterday for the first time in history it reached 2 trillion $

    __________________________________

    https://coinmarketcap.com/charts/

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    They might be unstable now, but will they always be?
    Good question. With "unstable" I guess you mean the high volatility. Just today I watched a video about Bitcoins volatility - something is changing.

    Last edited by Karras35; 11th Apr 2021 at 17:26.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    I'm just kind of sitting here waiting for it all to get carbon taxed, because that's going to be my favoritest day ever.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    Location: Germany
    You bitter, bitter little man.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Before you complain, consider that the more expensive it becomes to mine, the greater the value of your holdings.

  14. #14
    Taking the Death Toll
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: they/them mayhem
    I wish all crypto miners a very pleasant lose all their money.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    ok now lets talk about NFT's

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by PigLick View Post
    ok now lets talk about NFT's
    They're dumb and bad. Next topic.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Let me pull on this thread. Are NFTs really that different from cryptocurrency? The obvious difference is fungibility, hence the name. You can barter with NFTs but you can't use them directly for payments. But how much does that really matter? 99% of the people buying cryptocurrency aren't intending to use it as currency, and most payments still have to be made using a traditional nationally-backed currency. Both NFTs and cryptocurrencies are virtual assets made artificially scarce through different methods, and both are used primarily for speculative investment. The real difference is that cryptocurrency is made scarce mathematically, while NFTs are made scarce by their association to something unique, usually a piece of art.

    At first, it seemed crazy to me that somebody would buy an internet meme. Who would want to "own" a cat GIF that is copied all over the internet? And what does "ownership" really mean when the artist didn't even transfer copyright to the "owner". And given how internet memes come and go, why would you think such an asset would hold its value over the long term? But then I thought, what makes that more crazy than buying cryptocurrency, which is neither pegged to any real asset nor backed by any central bank? In both cases, you own nothing but a blockchain record.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I think the main problem with NFTs is that they are based on some artist's work - but the artist gets nothing (or very little) for it.

    Gambling with made-up things is all very well and good - I've done a little bit of it myself - but ripping off artists is Not Cool.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    I feel that Crypto-currency has at least some underlying utility (beyond the pyramid scheme of investing money into taking other, later investors' money). That utility is money laundering, but illegal and/or immoral utility is utility nonetheless. Whereas NFT's are a glorified link that would have to have some sort of legal backing to mean anything resembling ownership of a linked artwork. So, as is, NFT is just the pyramid, and that's bad.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Have artists been ripped off?

    The one example everybody seems to know about is Nyan Cat. The artist Chris Torres sold it for 300 Ether, which if he still has it, can be converted to about USD $700k. That's a lot for a rudimentary 8-bit GIF. From what I read, the sale didn't include copyright transfer, which means that it has zero intrinsic value. If there's no copyright transfer involved, it really stretches the definition of ownership. There's nothing to stop Chris from selling it again on another blockchain. And there's nothing to stop anyone else from selling it either. Supposing I could find a willing buyer, I could sell "ownership" of Chris' GIF too.

    If an artist "sells" their work through an NFT but retains copyright, how can they be ripped off? They got paid for nothing. If an artist sells their copyright, that's normal business. The transfer will have legal standing and you don't need an NFT for that.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    one could argue that it gives the artist much more control over their work, but I still cant really get my head around it. Why not just commission one off artworks and sell those, where the buyer would genuinely have a unique piece, rather than the whole block chain malarkey.
    Essentially its really just a big old casino, where you take a gamble that buying an NFT now will reap you profit in the future.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    And there's nothing to stop anyone else from selling it either.
    ...
    If an artist "sells" their work through an NFT but retains copyright, how can they be ripped off?
    How do you not see the problem you clearly stated?

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    I really don't see it. Care to explain?

  24. #24
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    If there's nothing to stop others from selling it, retaining copyright is meaningless.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    I feel that Crypto-currency has at least some underlying utility (beyond the pyramid scheme of investing money into taking other, later investors' money). That utility is money laundering, but illegal and/or immoral utility is utility nonetheless. Whereas NFT's are a glorified link that would have to have some sort of legal backing to mean anything resembling ownership of a linked artwork. So, as is, NFT is just the pyramid, and that's bad.
    Um... I don't know it for a fact, but I'm pretty sure NFT is also used for money laundering.

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