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Thread: Mission by Type thread is being updated.... Your feedback would be appreciated

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012

    Mission by Type thread is being updated.... Your feedback would be appreciated

    Samantha, Nickie and myself have been discussing a complete overhaul (including repairing all the broken links and updating to the latest releases) of the Mission by Type thread for some weeks now and we would like to get your feedback on the proposed changes.

    MbyT is without doubt the most popular of all threads so every section to be included, merged or removed was discussed at length and no decision was made hastily, but the thread is enormous and needs thinning out. This can only be done in 2 ways, reduce the number of sections and reduce the number of sections each mission is placed into. Previously some of the bigger missions were in as many as 10+ sections and we have now reduced this to a maximum of 5 for the bigger missions and 2/3 for the smaller ones.

    Sections we propose to remove
    Cemetery/Graveyard
    City & Mansion
    Mazes
    Most Absorbing/Keep Busy
    Mountain
    Relic/Artifact/Talisman
    Seasonal (Christmas)
    Sewer
    Water
    5 minute Wonder

    Sections we propose to merge
    Cathedral + Church + Temple
    Miscellaneous Buildings + Ruins (miscellaneous buildings already include libraries, brothels etc)
    Outdoor/Forest + Swamp
    Cathedral/Church/Temple + Cemetery/Graveyard
    Caves/Natural Tunnels + Mines/Man-made Tunnels + The Maw

    New Sections proposed
    All Encompassing
    Classic
    Demo
    Extensive
    Great Plot
    Most Challenging
    Small Mansions/Houses
    Underground

    Criteria for New Sections
    All Encompassing will be an expansion to the old Most Absorbing section, which was a bit wishy washy in its definition, but All Encompassing would imply that the chances are you'll find most types of locations, enemies and beasts in it, think bbb missions.

    Classic This is not an attempt to bring back the Must Play section that was dumped last time we upgraded this thread, that section was a minefield to select missions for as every player has a different opinion as to what is a Must Play mission. Classic however is for missions that fully encompass what we all love about Thief without veering off by including obscure puzzles, pixel hunting keys, bizarre plots etc. My consideration as to whether to include a mission in this section was if you ask someone who had only ever played an OM would they absolutely adore this FM without asking 'what was that all about?'

    Demo We won't include every demo, just those that are already in the Brief Summary thread, but will also include in the demos all the Dromed Beauty contest missions, and to keep the total number of entries to a minimum any mission in the demo section will not be in any other section.

    Extensive A simple classification for monster sized missions and campaigns, FMs that will take some challenge and time to complete.

    Great Plot Samantha has been an absolute angel in classifying these, kind of guess you all understand the purpose behind this section.

    Most Challenging Obviously similar to most absorbing but possibly has a bigger sweep of which missions we can place in this section, as most absorbing implied loads to do, whereas most challenging means even very small missions can be included if it has really difficult sections, such as killing aunty in Makiko.

    Small Mansions/House By introducing this new section we can massively reduce the size of the small section and the mansion section in one easy move, making them less cumbersome. No specific criteria apart from can you finish this mission in your coffee break?

    Underground Too often it's not possible to fully distinguish between mines + caves, often missions have both mines and caves in them and sometimes there are areas that just do not fit into either mines or caves, so by having one all encompassing underground section we can both reduce the number of entries and make my job of classifying missions very much easier. Also note there are very few Maw missions, so putting those in the underground section seems to make sense as well.

    Reasoning behind sections we propose to remove
    City & Mansion This was an attempt by me 10 years ago to reduce the number of missions in City section and the Mansion section by having a separate section for city FMs that also had an extensive mansion, but it was never really added to, so let's get rid of it, it's not needed.

    Mazes There were not many missions in this section and 99% of the time the mazes are either very small or are not a significant part of the mission, annoying in some cases yes, but not a dominant feature.

    Most Absorbing/Keep Busy See All Encompassing above.

    Mountains Seriously do we really need this section?

    Relic/Artifact/Talisman As with mountains I started this section 10 years ago as an idea but never really added any missions to it.

    Seasonal (Christmas) Every Christmas mission also has snow in it, and usually has the word Christmas in it's title, so do we really need this section?

    Sewer There are not many missions that have really significant sewers. Yes some are extensive but almost always sewers are ways to get across a city undetected or an area to traverse to get to tombs/catacombs/crypt and other underground areas. Accordingly I have rarely put missions in the sewer section over the last 10 years apart from being an afterthought and wanting to find an extra section to put a mission in.

    Water There are so few missions is this section, and most that are either have the word 'water' in its title or was an entrant in the water contest, and even then often there is little water action, most of the game play being on dry land, so do we really need this section.

    5 Minute Wonders The new small section was built with the criteria in our minds of can you finish this mission within 15-20 minutes? If not then leave out, so do we need a section for 5 minute wonders any more?

    Final one last idea!

    New Layout
    Many moons ago Iceblade suggested we place the different sections in sub categories, so we will be doing that by having 4 sub categories

    Special Categories
    All Encompassing
    Classic
    Extensive
    Great Plot
    Most Challenging

    Locations
    Banks
    Bar/Tavern/Hotel
    Castle/Fortress/Tower
    Cathedral/Church/Temple
    City
    Docks/Port/Ship
    Factory/Facility/Warehouse
    Cottage/Apartment
    Prison
    Lost City/Civilization
    Mansion
    Miscellaneous Building (includes libraries, brothels, ruins etc)
    Monastery
    Museum
    Small Mansion/Houses
    Thieves Highway/Rooftop
    Tombs/Catacombs/Crypts
    Town/Village
    Underground (caves, mines, underground facilities, maw)

    Factions + Enemies
    Beasts
    City Watch
    Hammerites
    Keepers
    Mages
    Mechanists
    Pagans
    Pirates
    Thieves
    Undead/Zombies.

    Mission Type
    AI Battle/Fighting
    Assassination
    Daylight
    Escape
    Forced Ghosting
    Horror
    Humour
    Mystery/Detective
    Non Garrett
    Novelty/Experimental/Surreal/Bizarre
    OM Port
    Outdoors/Forest/Swamp
    Puzzle
    Rescue
    Sci-Fi/Future/Modern/Other Worlds/Space
    Seasonal...(Rain, Snow)
    Small
    Phobic (Spiders)


    So that is what we are proposing along with a few explanations to our reasoning, so we now welcome your comments and suggestions, but please bear in mind that the MbyT is the most evil of all Thief threads, everybody has opinions and never in the history of Thief has there been a generally accepted consensus as to what is good and what is bad about the thread, but Samantha, Nickie and myself have spent weeks discussing a number of ideas and arrived at a range of suggestions that we are happy with and hope you guys can see our way of thinking and approve our proposals.

    However if there is overwhelming opinion to leave certain sections in or exclude certain proposed sections we will of course reconsider, but please also consider that I have to play every mission and decide what sections they should go into, and with a lot fewer sections available, making those decisions will be a lot easier, as it will be for Nickie who has to paste everything into the thread.
    Last edited by fortuni; 7th Jul 2021 at 12:21.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2018
    The Mission by Type thread is one of my favorite resources on this forum, and it's definitely helped me find some great missions during my time perusing this forum, as is probably the case for most folks. I think that's great you all are taking the time to make it even more organized and helpful, very appreciated! All the changes you are proposing seem very logical to me and it seems like you've put a lot of thought into this; I especially like the idea of a "Great Plot" category as these FMs are the ones that often pull me in the most and leave me with the most memorable impressions. The four overarching subcategories seem really good too, so all in all great work!

    PS: now you're making me curious what FMs are in the mountains category, I don't think I've ever played any that would fit this bill except possibly Dracula Reloaded and Batori

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2020
    Location: Germany
    Thanks for your comment toulomne! Im a biiiig fan of good stories in fanmissions aswell, thats why we decided to add this category. Surely there are alot of people that enjoy a good story just as much as we do

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    So All Encompassing is pretty much All in One missions, right?

    Demo: do we really need this one? Demo missions could be added to short missions section.

    Extensive: you mean huge missions or walking simulators missions?

    Most Challenging section already exist under the name Hardest. You don't propose anything new.

    City & Mansions: I would say this one is needed, because there is a lot of city with mansion missions. Major problem with this section is that most of missions from this category is also listed in City section and it shouldn't be like this.

    Mazes: I actually think this section is needed, because not everyone like playing maze missions. And there are some newly released missions that may feel like a maze. For example: Alcazar or Lost Among Forsaken. Also noticed that there are some mistakes. New Place for Ghosts, Nightmares (Mission 3) and Insanity's Crescendo aren't any mazes.

    Sewer: I don't know, there is a lot of Sewer mission. I guess merging them with underground would be fair.

    Water: I think players should know about missions with underwater section. True, they don't appear very often, but they are present. By the way, Lost City of Gazing Glass (not listed) has also quite long underwater section.

    5 Minute Wonders: I actually like this section. It's always nice to have a list of super short missions to play as a breather after really long missions.

    Now for your list:

    Phobic: is this section really necessary? There is a lot of missions with spiders and height already. For spiders you already proposed beast section, right?

    Rescue: no idea if you noticed, but this list doesn't exist anymore. Post containing it was probably deleted long time ago. But do we really need this section anyway?

    Non Garrett: another section I think is pointless. Main reason is these missions play the same as if main character was Garrett. For example Godbreaker with Conall as main character plays the same as missions with Garrett. Only voice is different.

    As for me I would like to see list of every mission and near names put what type it represents. For example: Insanity Crescendo (mansion, undead). Right now player choosing mission from one section has no idea what else is awaiting for him. On example of Insanity Crescendo - player chose this mission, because he likes playing mansion missions, but dislike undead missions. So in 1st half he has fun, but then undead half of mission starts and suddenly he hates it. So just playing based on this thread, you may encounter some unpleasant surprises.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    So All Encompassing is pretty much All in One missions, right?
    Yes, we couldn't think of a better expression than All Encompassing, but All in One sums it up perfectly

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    Demo: do we really need this one? Demo missions could be added to short missions section.
    Maybe, but we used the Brief Summaries table as a crib sheet for all the missions we intend to include in the new MbyT. IMO demos are different from small missions as lot of them are experimental in game play, certainly often unusual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    Extensive: you mean huge missions or walking simulators missions?
    We mean huge missions, but sometime walking simulators will creep into that section, unintentionally of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    Most Challenging section already exist under the name Hardest. You don't propose anything new.
    We didn't like the word 'Hardest' it's a negative word that can put player off, just like the word Keyhunt, challenging implies both hard but beatable. Yes that's semantics for you but we don't want to frighten players into not attempting missions because they are put of the title of a category, so yes they are basically the same but in reality by using a different word we will place more missions into this category.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    City & Mansions: I would say this one is needed, because there is a lot of city with mansion missions. Major problem with this section is that most of missions from this category is also listed in City section and it shouldn't be like this.
    And that's the problem I have always faced when choosing which categories to put missions into, but I would argue that your wrong in saying that most missions in this section are also in City as well, IIRC I rarely placed them in both categories, after all what would be the point. With the reduction in the number of slots available for each mission we're hoping the selection of which section to put missions into will be easier, but will happily take on board your thoughts, lets see what other think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    Mazes: I actually think this section is needed, because not everyone like playing maze missions. And there are some newly released missions that may feel like a maze. For example: Alcazar or Lost Among Forsaken. Also noticed that there are some mistakes. New Place for Ghosts, Nightmares (Mission 3) and Insanity's Crescendo aren't any mazes.
    Just because a mission is confusing does not make it a maze mission, Lord Alan's Factory is a maze of a map but I would never consider placing it in the maze section, nor for that matter would I place Alcazar or Lost Among the Forsaken. Every mission currently in the mazes section in fairness does not deserve to be in there if you consider the fact that the maze in those individual maps occupy usually less than 5% of the map. The only 2 missions I can think of that that have bigger mazes than that are in Patriot (mission 11) and Gervasius's Archery Tournament, so I see no point in having a section just for 2 missions.
    PS. There are mazes in all 3 missions: New Place for Ghosts, Nightmares (Mission 3) and Insanity's Crescendo, maybe not big or difficult, but they are there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    Sewer: I don't know, there is a lot of Sewer mission. I guess merging them with underground would be fair.
    We though of that idea, but then thought you guys would think that was a really silly idea, yes sewers are underground so there is an argument for doing that but do they really share the same space along side cave and mines?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    Water: I think players should know about missions with underwater section. True, they don't appear very often, but they are present. By the way, Lost City of Gazing Glass (not listed) has also quite long underwater section.
    As with sewers one has to ask 'Is the water section of the map important?' Usually the answer is no, it's usually a means to get to another area of the map. When choosing which categories a mission goes into we/I choose the 3 or 4 most important/memorable aspects of that missions and it is very very rarely the case that it is the sewers or the water that dominate the map.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    5 Minute Wonders: I actually like this section. It's always nice to have a list of super short missions to play as a breather after really long missions
    There really is not a lot of difference between a mission that takes 5 mins to beat and one that takes 15 mins to beat.

    Now for your list:

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    Phobic: is this section really necessary? There is a lot of missions with spiders and height already. For spiders you already proposed beast section, right?
    Sorry but this one stays out of respect to Kamyk, he was terrified of spiders, he started this thread and only gave me permission 10 years ago to take control of this thread so long as I respected his pet hate of spiders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    Rescue: no idea if you noticed, but this list doesn't exist anymore. Post containing it was probably deleted long time ago. But do we really need this section anyway?
    Well spotted, yes we've added this along side assassination and mystery, more of a kind of filler section really, if we need or want to place a mission in one more section these mission type sections work well

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    Non Garrett: another section I think is pointless. Main reason is these missions play the same as if main character was Garrett. For example Godbreaker with Conall as main character plays the same as missions with Garrett. Only voice is different.
    I actually suggested removing this section but Samantha argued strongly that it should stay. She is very much more into mission plots than I am and persuaded me that Non Garrett characters are essential for plot development, an argument that I was rather pathetic at countering. I absolutely understand your position but you also have to try to see things from other peoples point of view, and that sums up the difficulty in deciding which sections to schange in this thread, different people are attached to different sections. All your arguments are reasonable and fair but when considering how to go forward we all have to accommodate other people strongly help opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    As for me I would like to see list of every mission and near names put what type it represents. For example: Insanity Crescendo (mansion, undead). Right now player choosing mission from one section has no idea what else is awaiting for him. On example of Insanity Crescendo - player chose this mission, because he likes playing mansion missions, but dislike undead missions. So in 1st half he has fun, but then undead half of mission starts and suddenly he hates it. So just playing based on this thread, you may encounter some unpleasant surprises.
    There is absolutely no way any one could ever put every type of location/enemy/game play style that players may encounter in this thread giving players a complete understanding of every scenario they are likely to encounter in that mission, if you tried to do that this thread would be 15 miles long. We can only give players a taste of what to expect, and that is only possible by choosing the 3/4/5 most important/memorable aspects of that mission. Of course we will never get it perfect, there's just not the room for that, but we can do our best and that includes getting your feedback on our proposals which will be taken onboard and is very much appreciated.

    One final point: Yes there are a number of errors in the current MbyT thread, that’s because when I revamped this thread 8 years ago I had only being playing Thief FMs for a couple of years and so took a lot of info from videos, screenshots and the forum, but now having played 90 % of missions, written 100s of walkthroughs and the Brief Summaries I have a much greater wealth of knowledge and experience, and along with Samantha whose been absolutely fabulous in both knowing missions contents and seeing things from a different point of view, we think we are getting close to a pretty good data base of mission classifications. All in all we think we should be able to present a reasonably accurate representation of all the missions available.

    Edit rereading your last comment I think I may misunderstood you. One thing I may do when we post the new Mby T thread is to upload a pdf of the spreadsheet with all the sections each mission has been placed in, that would help players see what else they may encounter, in the meantime you can of course you the search function at the top of the thread.
    Last edited by fortuni; 8th Jul 2021 at 07:33.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Ukraine
    How about "Pixelhunting" section? We have rather a bunch of keyhunt missions with hideously hidden objects. And sometimes this kind of mission may be fun. Not sure about the name, but "Keyhunt" seems rather reasonable as for me.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    We had a discussion about introducing a Keyhunt section 8 years ago and both Nicki and Nightwalker argued against such a section on the ground that the word Keyhunt has strong negative feelings for many people. The other problem is how do you define such a mission? How well hidden do the keys or loot has to be to justify its inclusion in such a section?

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Ukraine
    Quote Originally Posted by fortuni View Post
    the word Keyhunt has strong negative feelings for many people.
    Isn't that a strong reason to have that section? Just to help people to avoid this kind of missions if they don't like them?

    Anyway, the whole idea of such a list isn't solving the problem well enough. I think we should just have a list of all missions where every mission has a set of characteristics filled in by the community.

    Something like: Mission Name, [zombies? None at all/ a few purely decorative or unthreatening/ a few/ undead themed mission/ hordes of zombies], [mansion? No buildings at all/ some huts/ small multiroom buildings/ castle-tier], etc... and with an ability to search by mixing those characteristics. I want an underwater mission without zombies but with magic and all must be during winter. That would be useful.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by A.Stahl View Post
    Isn't that a strong reason to have that section? Just to help people to avoid this kind of missions if they don't like them?
    I agree you but I suspect Nickie will still argue against such a section, so am happy to hear peoples thoughts on such a section, but if such a section was introduced we would need to carefully consider what defines Keyhunt, which missions should go into that section, after all if people used that section to avoid such missions it would be unfair on authors to include their mission just because 1 or 2 keys were hidden in a hard to find location.

    Edit: Of course we will be having the Most Challenging section, so unfair/unreasonable keyhunt missions can go into that section.


    Quote Originally Posted by A.Stahl View Post
    Anyway, the whole idea of such a list isn't solving the problem well enough. I think we should just have a list of all missions where every mission has a set of characteristics filled in by the community.

    Something like: Mission Name, [zombies? None at all/ a few purely decorative or unthreatening/ a few/ undead themed mission/ hordes of zombies], [mansion? No buildings at all/ some huts/ small multiroom buildings/ castle-tier], etc... and with an ability to search by mixing those characteristics. I want an underwater mission without zombies but with magic and all must be during winter. That would be useful.
    There's absolutely no reason why you or someone else couldn't set up such a data base, trouble is with the MbyT thread is that the entries are also linked to downloads, screenshots and the forum thread, so introducing a data base like that into the current thread would make the number of entries and link impossible to maintain and the size of the thread would be beyond ridiculous, which is exactly the opposite what what we are trying to achieve here.
    Last edited by fortuni; 8th Jul 2021 at 07:45.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: UK
    The proposed update looks good to me, fortuni. I love the MbyT thread - use it all the time, along with the brief description of each mission thread. So, whatever is done will be appreciated by me - it is so useful when FM hunting. Thanks for all your and everyone's hard work - can imagine it's a monster that needs regularly feeding!

  11. #11
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Thanks for the replies - much appreciated.

    @ A.Stahl - we will discuss Keyhunt again when we see what other comments might be made for including that category. As fortuni says, though, it's perhaps one of the most subjective types of mission and we have tried not to be subjective.

    The MbyT thread is just supposed to give a general idea instead of perhaps looking through a mission release thread to see what sort of mission it is. Thief players don't need to be spoon-fed. They are perfectly capable of finding out more info before playing if they want. I don't like playing undead missions now so if I see something I do want to play, I check that it isn't in the undead or horror categories.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by fortuni View Post
    I actually suggested removing this section but Samantha argued strongly that it should stay. She is very much more into mission plots than I am and persuaded me that Non Garrett characters are essential for plot development, an argument that I was rather pathetic at countering. I absolutely understand your position but you also have to try to see things from other peoples point of view, and that sums up the difficulty in deciding which sections to change in this thread, different people are attached to different sections. All your arguments are reasonable and fair but when considering how to go forward we all have to accommodate other people strongly help opinions.
    I guess you will be forced to put every TDM mission into this category, because they never use Garrett as main character.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2020
    Location: Germany
    Id really like to hear peoples opinions about category non-garrett. I thought itd be an appreciated category cause I for myself am a sucker for good plots and this also goes along with who is the main guy Im playing. Do I want to play garrett the master-thief or do I want to play a guard, a pagan or a hammerite acolyte named shivan? But if this category is not needed by anyone then of course we can remove it again.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    We won’t be listing TDM missions any more because they use a completely different set of terminology to Thief which doesn’t fit into this thread, accordingly I have never in 8 years added any TDM mission to this thread because of that.

    Anyway they have their own forum, I don’t see why we have to constantly promote their missions on our forum.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2018
    I heartily agree such a category would be most welcome. While Galaer is right that the gameplay isn’t inherently different from a purely mechanical point of view, I have a completely different feeling playing something like T2X, Dracula Reloaded, Batori, or one of RandomTaffer’d Conall missions. When I am playing a Garrett mission I think I sort of have a feeling of “well I’ve defeated the Trickster in the Maw, dealt with the mechanists, seen all sorts of crazy supernatural shit, I can probably handle whatever gets thrown my way.” I’m not really actively roleplaying in my head but this game has always had a very strong immersion into the story for me and that’s what keeps me coming back for more…with a different character taking part of the story it feels completely different for me, even though sure you can say the controls are the same…

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2004
    Location: Cape Breton Nova Scotia Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Samantha1 View Post
    Id really like to hear peoples opinions about category non-garrett. I thought itd be an appreciated category cause I for myself am a sucker for good plots and this also goes along with who is the main guy Im playing. Do I want to play garrett the master-thief or do I want to play a guard, a pagan or a hammerite acolyte named shivan? But if this category is not needed by anyone then of course we can remove it again.

    The category makes perfect sense. I don't see too much use in trying to catalog missions too specific to personal taste. But this to me is obviously very specific type of mission. It might take place in a temple with some undead but it's not Garrett, I appreciate your efforts .

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    is it possible to have a cannon / non cannon split on all fan missions,and yes i know nothing is truly cannon besides om games,but some of the fan missions have deep stories that can be cannon compared to some missions like doom/hexen/anything 100% non thief should be a non cannon so people know if its going to be a mission to enjoy over time or a quick killfest/etc

    i hope that made sense as i feel i drifted toward the end

    other wise amazing job everyone involved

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by downwinder View Post
    is it possible to have a cannon / non cannon split on all fan missions,and yes i know nothing is truly cannon besides om games,but some of the fan missions have deep stories that can be cannon compared to some missions like doom/hexen/anything 100% non thief should be a non cannon so people know if its going to be a mission to enjoy over time or a quick killfest/etc
    That would mean every mission would have to go into one or the other cannon/non cannon sections making both sections ridiculously massive, so no, that won’t being happening.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: UK
    I'd appreciate a category that is "Non-Garrett". Thank you all

    The proposed categories are great - and the 4 subcategories make it even easier/useful.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2020
    Location: Germany
    Thank you all for your answers. Category Non-Garrett stays then as suggested

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2020
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by downwinder View Post
    is it possible to have a cannon / non cannon split on all fan missions,and yes i know nothing is truly cannon besides om games,but some of the fan missions have deep stories that can be cannon compared to some missions like doom/hexen/anything 100% non thief should be a non cannon so people know if its going to be a mission to enjoy over time or a quick killfest/etc

    i hope that made sense as i feel i drifted toward the end

    other wise amazing job everyone involved
    Fortuni is right, theres no way we could do sth. like that.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Could I ask for some feedback on Galaer's other suggestions

    1]. Demos being placed in the small mission section. Not a bad idea but I think I would prefer to have a separate section for demos, some of them are odd balls to say the least.
    2. City + Mansion section. Again a reasonable suggestion, reduces number of missions in City section and in the Mansion section, but I did find I rarely placed any FM in that section.
    3. Mazes, Sewers, Water. Are most people OK with us removing these sections or do you have other opinions? I can see the argument in keeping the sewer section but honestly there are not many missions in which sewers are seriously important, extensive sometimes yes, but rarely game critical.
    4. 5 Minute Wonder I don't see much difference between 5 minute and 15.

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: UK
    Demos - I'd personally rather know if an FM is a demo, as I don't want to play these.

    City + Mansion - I dunno. I think having "City", "Mansion" and "Mansion - small/houses", as proposed, works fine for me.

    Underground - for me, this includes sewers, waterways and anything else underground. So many missions have a bit of sewer anyway, but a significant sewer would fit into here.

    Small - I like this. I don't often play short/5-15 minute wonder missions really, prefer something longer. So I like to know if something is only a short play.

    Mazes (verb and noun versions) are mentioned in the "Brief Summary of Missions" thread, so if a maze or more confusing layout isn't someone's thing, checking out the brief description may help weed this one out. So, no I don't think a separate section is needed.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Sound like we're singing from the same hymn sheet. I've got a list of missions with sewers, I'll dig it out and post it, that may help people appreciate why we should/shouldn't have such a section, but if we do I'm not fully persuaded they should be bundled in with underground, just don't seem to fit too comfortably with that section in my mind.

    With regard to 5 minutes wonders Galaer was proposing we have Short Mission (can finish in 15-20 mins) and 5 minute wonders. I don't see the point in that

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by fortuni View Post
    4. 5 Minute Wonder I don't see much difference between 5 minute and 15.
    You are incorrect with this one. Small missions usually are longer than 15 min. Usually you can beat them under 1 hour (30-45 min usually). And there is actually big difference between 45 min long mission and 5 min long mission. For example: Sabotage in Eastport is small, but not short mission. It took me around 1 hour to beat it the first time. Unless you are gonna change current list. Also current 5 Minute Wonder list isn't small, so if added to Small section, it will make large list and don't you want to avoid that?

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