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Thread: Objects

  1. #1
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2016

    Objects

    Good day. I am stumped, please help. I'll try to explain. (I'm sorry, English is not my first language)
    -I created brushes (say, doorway) in Dromeda. Used textures.
    - exported them to .obj and .mtl
    - Opened the Anim8tor, removed unnecessary "points", left only the desired object. Converted to 3ds.
    -Used .bat files to convert from .3ds to .e and from .e to .bin. Everything is successful.
    -Placed the resulting object (for the test, I made a regular doorway) into the hierarchy of objects. I saved the gamesys and the mission, all the textures are in the right places, the object looks like it should.
    -Successfully ported it to the level, specifying the model.
    But as a result, its invisible physical model, which cannot be bypassed, is in one place, and its visible part is a little further, in another place, nearby.
    I thought it was because I placed the object in the wrong section of the hierarchy, but no, I even placed it on the railings and windows - all the same, the skeleton and the visible model were in different places. What did I miss? Can you please tell me, I donít know. My knowledge of graphic editors is extremely limited, so please in more detail, if possible.

    p.s
    I am beginning to suspect that I would like to learn more about the properties of objects in the hierarchy, and even create my own unique object with properties, if necessary. I think I need to look there, but I would be glad if you showed me how to solve the current problem.
    https://ibb.co/xS6Dxxw - image. (I have my own .gam, screen just with one of the attempts to apply the object)
    Last edited by DatTaffer; 5th Oct 2021 at 03:14. Reason: add jpeg

  2. #2
    In Dromed you can just create a doorway using brushes. I don't see why you want to use an object for this. If the object has a physics model, then the player cannot walk through it. And you cannot have a physics model with a hole in the middle, it has to be a sphere or rectangle.

    I guess if you want the player to walk through the object, you could change the physics model to "None."

  3. #3
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2016
    Quote Originally Posted by RippedPhreak View Post
    In Dromed you can just create a doorway using brushes. I don't see why you want to use an object for this. If the object has a physics model, then the player cannot walk through it. And you cannot have a physics model with a hole in the middle, it has to be a sphere or rectangle.

    I guess if you want the player to walk through the object, you could change the physics model to "None."

    I beg your pardon, it is my fault that I did not explain better. Itís not about the door, but of course I wasnít hoping to create a door that can be walked through. So with any object, even with a simple cube. Possibly the answer is in numerous object 'properties', but I don't know where to start researching. Do you have any guides on this topic?
    I hope the image explains my problem better.

  4. #4
    I think the answer would require a Blender/Anim8tor expert. Try to send a private message to TTLG username Dale_

  5. #5
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2016
    Quote Originally Posted by RippedPhreak View Post
    I think the answer would require a Blender/Anim8tor expert. Try to send a private message to TTLG username Dale_
    Thank you for your attention. Your comment about Blender and the Anim8tor gave me the idea that I was creating objects incorrectly inside the 3D editor. And so it turned out. I found a small note that said the following:
    Objects Off-centre?

    If when you import things into thief, they actual graphics seems to be off centre from the object box then this means that your 3ds model was not centred properly. I have just worked this out, and have gone through and re-addressed all my files.

    To fix this, in 3d-studio, group the objects, and then right click on the move icon. This should pop up a dialogue box, in it, change the co-ordinates to 0,0,0. Then export, and bsp as normal. De-dah, no more off centre things.
    http://web.archive.org/web/200710301...ts&sub=Objects

    And indeed. It's just that the cube has an obvious center in the editor, but my complex objects do not, and I did not pay attention to it. It was so easy, but not too damn obvious to me! Thanks for participating !

  6. #6
    OK, great! From your Dromed picture it looks like your mission is pretty big. I hope we can play it soon! =)

  7. #7
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by RippedPhreak View Post
    OK, great! From your Dromed picture it looks like your mission is pretty big. I hope we can play it soon! =)
    And you are attentive ;-) At the moment I am faced with some ridiculous limit of 64,000 (cells or something else). To implement my idea, i need 14 times more. Now I'm trying to figure out how objects work in dromeda space. Part of the architecture can be converted, which will give me the opportunity to get closer to the desired result.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Constantly losing tug o'war
    There are plenty of very big missions that have been made within the cell limit, so either your idea is huge (or maybe even large), or there's something about your architecture which is using up cells. Having said that, inaccessible rooftops are good things to convert to objects.

  9. #9
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2016
    Quote Originally Posted by R Soul View Post
    There are plenty of very big missions that have been made within the cell limit, so either your idea is huge (or maybe even large), or there's something about your architecture which is using up cells. Having said that, inaccessible rooftops are good things to convert to objects.
    Thanks. The columns and arches are still quite voracious, but I have already thought of something ;-)

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    note that if you need to have the origin/pivot (depending on how your 3d software calls it) somewhere other than the center of your object (for example, if you want it to rotate around a different point), then you can edit the Physics>Model>Dimensions property, and set an offset so that the collision box lines up with the visible shape.

    (you can also use Physics>Model>Dimensions to change the size of the collision box, which is often useful. but doesnt relate to your question)

  11. #11
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2016
    Quote Originally Posted by vfig View Post
    note that if you need to have the origin/pivot (depending on how your 3d software calls it) somewhere other than the center of your object (for example, if you want it to rotate around a different point), then you can edit the Physics>Model>Dimensions property, and set an offset so that the collision box lines up with the visible shape.

    (you can also use Physics>Model>Dimensions to change the size of the collision box, which is often useful. but doesnt relate to your question)
    This will help me, thanks!

  12. #12
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2016
    Well. I can't believe it's been 2 years already. But it looks like it was the best time of my life. Thanks to everyone who helped. Here are the results, without you it would not be possible.










  13. #13
    Looks good. Does this mean you are almost done?

  14. #14
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2016
    Quote Originally Posted by RippedPhreak View Post
    Looks good. Does this mean you are almost done?
    Thank you ! I'm trying to decide between releasing the whole company or releasing missions one at a time. If one by one, then at such a pace it will turn out to be released once every half a year

  15. #15
    I would say release one right away, unless there is one connected story for all of them. How many missions in the campaign?

  16. #16
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2016
    Quote Originally Posted by RippedPhreak View Post
    I would say release one right away, unless there is one connected story for all of them. How many missions in the campaign?
    This is a great question
    From what I planned, 7 missions have already turned out, 3 of them are 80% ready, meaning that the architecture of brushes and objects has been completed by readiness. It takes a lot of time to think over the visual plot of the premises in conjunction with the plot as a whole. They are not populated, not voiced, not full of events and characters (I do everything in turn, first I build 7 levels from brushes, then I finish with objects, then lighting, then sound, etc. It helps to unload the brain, allowing you to focus on one type of activity .)
    In general, the required minimum is 10 missions, otherwise the story will not be fully told. Given that it took only 2.5 years for these 3 almost ready and 4 more waiting in line, it can be assumed that in another 2 years it will be possible to release the entire company, depending on how quickly I find voice actors and animators for cutscenes.

    I'm torn between the possibility and the desire to release at least one mission. Unfortunately, I still have to study AI animation and scripts for a long time, so the release of even one will not happen before the new year at such a pace. Time will show.

    This creativity turned out to be a real drug, for the sake of which I study things about which I had no idea before. They are terribly difficult for me, but for the first time in my life I overcome difficulties with such pleasure. Therefore, I wrote in my topic words of gratitude to the people who pushed me in the right direction, even if they had long forgotten about the Thief. Although it is possible to forget about the Thief?

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by DatTaffer View Post
    Given that it took only 2.5 years for these 3 almost ready and 4 more waiting in line, it can be assumed that in another 2 years it will be possible to release the entire company, depending on how quickly I find voice actors and animators for cutscenes.
    the maths doesnt hold up: game development is not a linear equation, extrapolation is invalid. but what you have shown looks very cool, excellent work so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by DatTaffer View Post
    I'm torn between the possibility and the desire to release at least one mission.
    nothing wrong with serial publishing. a great many fan campaigns were released one or two missions at a time.

    Quote Originally Posted by DatTaffer View Post
    This creativity turned out to be a real drug, for the sake of which I study things about which I had no idea before. They are terribly difficult for me, but for the first time in my life I overcome difficulties with such pleasure.
    this is great to hear. keep on creating!

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2012
    Location: Moscow, Russia
    Quote Originally Posted by DatTaffer View Post
    This is a great question
    I do everything in turn, first I build 7 levels from brushes, then I finish with objects, then lighting, then sound, etc. It helps to unload the brain, allowing you to focus on one type of activity .
    This is completely different from my approach. I do everything at once: geometry, environment, lighting, sound, ambient, secrets and patrols. Otherwise, I don't feel motivated. I create ready-made small areas to soak in this atmosphere.
    Judging by what people wrote about my missions - it justified itself. Over the years, I have not abandoned my projects, because every time I opened this or that level, I was delighted with the created things and awesome atmosphere with cool ambient, it always gave me a good kick to continue.

    Unfortunately, I still have to study AI animation and scripts for a long time, so the release of even one will not happen before the new year at such a pace
    For what? Just open someone else's mission and copy the settings, almost everyone has learned this way. This is about scripts. Or do you want to write your own?
    I also see no point in learning how to make animations, it's easier to ask the guys from the forum.

    This creativity turned out to be a real drug, for the sake of which I study things about which I had no idea before. They are terribly difficult for me, but for the first time in my life I overcome difficulties with such pleasure
    This is an illusion. The entrance threshold seems high due to the lack of habit, and the peculiarities of people's psychology, people are simply afraid to get new experience. You understand very well, proving from your own experience that this activity does not need a college and teachers (although certainly their presence would have given more benefits).

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2012
    Location: Moscow, Russia
    If you don't mind, a little critique.
    I like the geometry in the screenshots, but it's too dark. If you are using low ambient light, then you need to make the light sources more bright.
    The ratio of light and shadow should be equal and harmonious.
    Highlight for the yellow window: 30-40 with a radius of 6-8 (and 3-4 inner). Color: 0.1/0.75
    For blue: 20-30. Color: 0.6/0.7
    Add non-object lights in the air (OmniLightPoint) 60-80 with a radius of 30-40 to highlight the geometry.
    Don't forget about the inner radius to get rid of sharp edges.

    Combos of warm light from torches and cold light from the moon or backlights give awesome lively atmosphere.

  20. #20
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2016
    Quote Originally Posted by Soul Tear View Post
    This is completely different from my approach. I do everything at once: geometry, environment, lighting, sound, ambient, secrets and patrols. Otherwise, I don't feel motivated. I create ready-made small areas to soak in this atmosphere.
    Judging by what people wrote about my missions - it justified itself. Over the years, I have not abandoned my projects, because every time I opened this or that level, I was delighted with the created things and awesome atmosphere with cool ambient, it always gave me a good kick to continue.



    For what? Just open someone else's mission and copy the settings, almost everyone has learned this way. This is about scripts. Or do you want to write your own?
    I also see no point in learning how to make animations, it's easier to ask the guys from the forum.



    This is an illusion. The entrance threshold seems high due to the lack of habit, and the peculiarities of people's psychology, people are simply afraid to get new experience. You understand very well, proving from your own experience that this activity does not need a college and teachers (although certainly their presence would have given more benefits).
    Sorry for the late reply, I didn't think that someone would write here

    I had an idea to do lighting, geometry and other things at once, but somehow I canít cope with such a volume of information in my head
    And yes, I overcame a strong fear opening the dromeda for the first time. Nothing was clear at all. By the way, on the one hand, this is even to some extent all spoiled. As if it destroyed the magical world of the game in which you felt yourself as Garrett. On the other hand, an amazing world of creativity opened up to me. For 3 years I couldnít just play thief and have fun, because I definitely wanted to get into the editor and see how it works from the inside.
    About scripts now I think the same way. I even think to arrange a tour of several hundred missions and see how different triggers are implemented, communication between NPCs, scripted events and so on.
    Sincerely,

    P.s the release is also slowed down a little by the fact that no matter what I do, I always get the city. seriously.









    Last edited by DatTaffer; 30th May 2023 at 03:38.

  21. #21
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2016
    Quote Originally Posted by Soul Tear View Post
    If you don't mind, a little critique.
    I like the geometry in the screenshots, but it's too dark. If you are using low ambient light, then you need to make the light sources more bright.
    The ratio of light and shadow should be equal and harmonious.
    Highlight for the yellow window: 30-40 with a radius of 6-8 (and 3-4 inner). Color: 0.1/0.75
    For blue: 20-30. Color: 0.6/0.7
    Add non-object lights in the air (OmniLightPoint) 60-80 with a radius of 30-40 to highlight the geometry.
    Don't forget about the inner radius to get rid of sharp edges.

    Combos of warm light from torches and cold light from the moon or backlights give awesome lively atmosphere.
    Sorry for the late reply, I didn't think that someone would write here

    Oh that lighting.... I tried to add the light of the moon, vary the brightness and range of lighting to achieve a pleasant and beautiful, but at the same time functional lighting that would play a role in the player's behavior and decision-making, but so far I have only decided on the color of lighting and the location of candles and lanterns, the rest is still a mystery to me
    In fact, I havenít done it seriously yet, I hope when I get to work with lighting in missions, then some kind of discovery will come to me. Anyway, thanks for the tips


    p.s funny that a beautiful picture is not always fraught with playability. My first versions of the levels felt perfect for me, but in reality it turned out that the gameplay did not fit into them at all. It's the same with light. I like to look at the picture but how to play it? Will have to rethink. Almost everything will have to be redone, but that's what creativity is for









    p.p.s
    The screenshots show worse, the game shows better, but the light still does not fulfill the function of the gameplay in my missions (yet)
    Last edited by DatTaffer; 30th May 2023 at 03:54.

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