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Thread: Announcement: New Dark 10 Year Anniversary Contest

  1. #51
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    Remaking a level from a game may lead to serious copyright issues. I don't think it would be a good idea.

  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by baeuchlein View Post
    Remaking a level from a game may lead to serious copyright issues. I don't think it would be a good idea.
    Wait, but this is the idea behind this contest. So you say that this contest is illegal?

  3. #53
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    The contest rules state that contestants should make a mission based on T1 or T2 OMís only, the editor for both of those games being released years ago, so no problem.

    Make a reboot of a mission based on a game (Thief4) in which the editor has never been released by Eidos would not only be going against the rules of the contest, but could also be considered to be infringing on Eidos copyright.

  4. #54
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    Location: France
    The rules don't say that. You're free to take a mission from any Thief game as base. But here's the thing: taking as base is not the same as remaking. The Chalice of Souls is based on a Thief 2014 mission, and it's exactly the kind of thing that would be appropriate for this context.

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    My bad, I misread the rules.

  6. #56
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by fortuni View Post
    The contest rules state that contestants should make a mission based on T1 or T2 OM’s only, the editor for both of those games being released years ago, so no problem.

    Make a reboot of a mission based on a game (Thief4) in which the editor has never been released by Eidos would not only be going against the rules of the contest, but could also be considered to be infringing on Eidos copyright.
    Wait, doesn't it make missions converted from Thief 1 into Thief 2 illegal? I'm talking about convertions listed here.

  7. #57
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    All of those conversions were seriously frowned upon when they were released, even the author initially remained anonymous (IIRC it was belboz), and most if not all hosting sites refused to carry them but as time went by and no come back occurred peoples attitude relaxed towards them, but to make a reboot of a Thief4 mission would probably not be a good idea for reasons mentioned above, yes someone could make a mission inspired Thief 4, but a complete reboot…..

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany

    I have read the DromEd2 License again just now, and it is ambiguous for me concerning whether remaking a T1 mission for T2 would be allowed or not. I'm sure lawyers could tell us more about that... but I definitely do not wish to experience that at court, as the accused. The license might even be understood in a way that one could not distribute voice files from the T2 game with a mission - these are certainly copyrighted material, and the license says that a FM "can not" include "copyrighted materials".

    There also certainly is a reason why our mysterious "Le Courbeau" (AKA "The Raven"), while supplying us with patches to the game, does not ever make public who he/she really is. I guess it's for legal reasons. I'd bet my *ss on it if I didn't need that for sitting and sh... shome other purposhesh.

    Also, the creators of The Dark Mod carefully saw to it that their "stealth game built as a mod for the Doom 3 engine" did not contain anything from the Thief games that might be copyrighted. And I know of other fan projects which were carefully steered out of harm's (or some lawyer's) way, e.g., remaking one TES role-playing game with the engine of it sequel or prequel.

    Let sleeping lawyers lie, and think well before you step over the line. The more you re-make any existing thing, the closer you are to the red line. Trespassers might be prosecuted. There's not much to win for FM authors by battling copyright laws, but much to loose.

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2005
    Lawyers and one's own fear of legal reprisal can do the FUD for us. Extra assistance is neither necessary nor (I'd wager) appreciated.

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2021
    So instead of a remaking, a re-imagining? Like, perhaps, a Cragscleft-inspired level where Garrett is being broken out by someone like a Keeper novice, with similar themes and objectives? (Like finding a lucky artifact and having to go through a mine full of monsters.)

  11. #61
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    from a fan mission player view point i don't think it would be hard to top the om missions with the skills of the fan mission authors,without having to make them anything like om missions,we can all agree that fan missions are better them om,and yes i know without om's we would not have fan missions,i agree,but the fact is the authors can make missions that will never be looked at by a lawyer

    i mean not to sound degrading but there is countless fan missions with straight ripped off parts of om missions and after decades i never heard of a law suit :P

    remember if the people who say redo/etc a mission if they not making money chances are nothing will happen,they only sue if there is money to be gained

    i am from southern California so i know a bit about the sue happy people/etc

  12. #62
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2001
    Location: Marlboro, MA, USA
    I GUARANTEE you guys that you have NOTHING to worry about. GUARANTEE. As nice as the TTLG community is, it is tiny, and the amount of people playing these old school Thief missions is even tinier. I'm talking about compared to the whole big gaming industry of course. Plus even the newest Thief game is already approaching a decade old. You could flat out recreate the entire game using New Dark T2 and you would be safer than Mark McGuire knocking a 90mph fast ball into the next baseball park. No one is coming after you guys, NO ONE. You can relax about this.
    The Keep for Thief 1 and 2 FMs, Shadowdark for Thief 3 and Dark Mod FMs

  13. #63
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Plus it's been done; nothing wrong with the idea so much as you're talking inspiration.

    The Chalice of Souls is an absolutely excellent fan mission for Thief Gold, and it's clearly based on House of Blossoms from Thief 4.

  14. #64
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2012
    Location: Sweden.
    I love to see this contest announced now and will be a wonderful time to see us, the community, come together with it but it left me with a question, we cannot use the Thief 2 Gold mission bases, right?
    Because for obvious reasons those assets do not have objectives written, some are only half baked let alone the necromancer type mission only exists in concept pictures only.

  15. #65
    New Member
    Registered: Feb 2022
    lol @ the person worrying about some dmca from a defunct publishing house whose imaginary lawyers demand restitution for unauthorized use of mission objectives. Sort of amusing to imagine a world where the company that currently owns the corpse of the Thief franchise started going after every mission author that has used the character "Garrett." Like Yandros gets served papers ordering them to cease and desist.

    Obviously, I'm just poking fun, but I was always surprised things like T2X were legally allowed. That "branding" alone sort of gave the impression it was an official game, and it had a website that kind of suggested that it was. Yes, I know no one makes money off this bla bla and it's a testament to the devs that it was polished enough to seem that way, but that one always raised my eyebrows.

    Re this contest, this sort of thing makes me wish I had the talent of mission authors. I'm looking forward to being surprised by what this community comes up with. I really like how this contest will (hopefully) engender a sense of weird dissonance in the player, similar to when you are presented with something you're not sure you experienced earlier or dreamed about years ago.

    Have fun.

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostly View Post
    I love to see this contest announced now and will be a wonderful time to see us, the community, come together with it but it left me with a question, we cannot use the Thief 2 Gold mission bases, right?
    Because for obvious reasons those assets do not have objectives written, some are only half baked let alone the necromancer type mission only exists in concept pictures only.
    I haven't done a very good job at explaining the rules for this contest, as evidenced by all the confusion above. But to answer your question, no mission base can be used at all. All missions for this contest must be brand new, original missions.

  17. #67
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    I haven't done a very good job at explaining the rules for this contest, as evidenced by all the confusion above. But to answer your question, no mission base can be used at all. All missions for this contest must be brand new, original missions.
    Out of curiosity, can participants create new mission inspired by Thief 2 Gold missions despite them never finished and released, just based on documentary like Emil's Journal?

  18. #68
    Sure, that works OK. Would love to see it.

  19. #69
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2012
    Location: Sweden.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    Sure, that works OK. Would love to see it.
    My sincere apologizes I might also have mis-worded myself, I understand it has to be done from scratch, Galaer basically explained my question much better.
    Thank you for your reply, this did answer what was lingering in the shadows of this taffers mind.

  20. #70
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    Any rough estimate for how many entries we might get? I know it's over 3 months away, but I am surprisingly excited for this already.

  21. #71
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: The Netherlands
    I'm in for betatesting for you Taffers.
    I've let Cardia down last time for not being to able to put some beta's in my folder, due to technical problems.
    But I'm all in if you want me too.

    The Creep

    Good luck to all of you participating.
    There're angels who playThief and angels who don't ........ both go to heaven ............
    Dare to join .............

  22. #72
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2015
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria Creep View Post
    I'm in for betatesting for you Taffers.
    I've let Cardia down last time for not being to able to put some beta's in my folder, due to technical problems.
    But I'm all in if you want me too.
    Gloria, will you share just a tiny leak for us

    Jokes aside, some teaser pictures would be nice. Still waiting for mission releases in excitement.

  23. #73
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Not sure how many entries there's likely to be. A lot of the usual suspects will be tied up with group projects. Hopefully some new folk have been quietly beavering away...

  24. #74
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2019
    Quote Originally Posted by nicked View Post
    Not sure how many entries there's likely to be. A lot of the usual suspects will be tied up with group projects. Hopefully some new folk have been quietly beavering away...
    I personally have indeed been beavering. I think it should be done in time. So, I don't know how good it'll be, but there should be at least one mission for this.

  25. #75
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2007
    Location: Krull Island, in the pub
    There were a couple of contests in recent years, where the actual missions were more numerous than it was expected based on the previews and related threads. Let's hope for at least five entries...

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