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Thread: So, I FINALLY got around to trying it

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2005
    Location: Alberta, Canada

    So, I FINALLY got around to trying it

    After hearing so much 'bad' about Thief 4, I never went out and got it. Until this past January when a friend gave me some money on Steam and I found it for a whole $2.62 (plus another $1.50 for all it's 'addons') (To be fair, I also got all the steam versions of TG, TMA, TDS at the same time, all for less than a buck. Which isn't bad. Save me the trouble of trying to figure out how to install mine now that I no longer have a DVD drive.) And again, it just sat there in my steam account till now. So almost another year before I finally got around to playing it.

    My over all opinion?

    Eh. . .it wasn't TERRIBLE. I didn't hate it. Most of it. I DID have fun playing it. But as a Thief game. . .it lacked. It definitely had it's ups and downs. Was it GREAT? No. Was it complete trash? No.

    I did make the mistake of playing it on the hardest difficulty - and having trouble getting around AI. The lights/shadows weren't great. In places it seemed IMPOSSIBLE to get passed AI without resorting to something. If I were to play it again, I think I'd pick a custom difficulty. Was sort of annoying.

    Let's talk about Garrett: Ehhh. Beyond the initial 'What the heck are you wearing?!' response - I did like the face he had a face mask in this one. It actually makes a LOT of sense for any of the games that he'd have something to cover his face and minimize the skin exposed. His eyes - I swear he looked like he was sick. What was with the dark rings around his eyes?? I am shocked they didn't decide he'd gotten the 'Gloom' or something. But ok. Fine. Moving on. It bugged me that this was 'our' character they had taken and made changes to. Then at some point I saw it wasn't the 'same' Garrett we knew from the earlier games. Though that almost makes LESS sense than the fact it's the same. (So they're saying these two - centuries apart, just HAPPEN to have the same name, have the same attitude, have the same skills, both are 'master thieves', both happen to have a friend named Basso who happens to have connections to the name Jenivere? uh. . .yeah. No. Not buying it. They'd have been better to just change his name in that case.) So I'm going with the fact it's the same character. It DOES fit in that it could be 10-15 years later than the earlier games. City could have changed somewhat. Still not thrilled about what they've done, but it wasn't ALL terrible, so we'll let it slide.

    Also. . .what was this big thing about him having a rule to 'never take a life'. Say. . .what?? I mean, ok, I get it. He's a thief, not a murderer. I'd think murder would be far worse 'trouble' to be in than just a thief - and maybe more personal reasons. Sure. Ok. But this big thing about 'never taking a life unless there's no other choice', and it seemed to play in to a lot of the story. . .just. . .wha. . .?? If he was going to take that 'stance' ok. But I'd think more like "It's too messy" or "It wasn't really called for" or "it attracts too much attention' would make more sense for his general attitude than the major plot point they made it. (Not that I personally disagree with it. It's nice to have a character that's not bent on murder. It just seemed. . .odd that he had this firm rule about it.) Odder still that the game 'penalized' me for killing murderous criminals in one level - and inhuman monsters in another. I liked how the first three games - the non-humans didn't count.

    I did like how they were consistent in the fact that when the character got injured, the player HUD got updated. IE, when he gets his hand injured, suddenly the hand you see while playing is now covered by a bandage. Although - they were a bit lazy and he's got a bloody bandage DAYS after he was injured - over an extremely dirty glove. Uh. . .ew? How. . .unhelpful and unhygenic. Doesn't it make more sense that he'd be wearing that - and the bleeding would be more or less controlled by that time, though, I suppose it's possible with all that climbing, scrambling, lock picking, etc it could have bled again - to have it UNDER a glove that had been CLEANED and repaired already?? Like. . .seriously? I realize it's easier to pop one texture over the other, but. . .really.

    Erin. . .can I just say. . .I HATE this character? She's horrible. From start to finish. . .I hate her! In the beginning, she's a cocky little brat who actually deserves the accident that happened to her. Then, after the PC spends the ENTIRE game trying to find out what happened to her, then to rescue her before it's too late, she continues to lash out and blame him for what happened - even though it was her own stupid fault. Well, ok, to be fair, from what we saw - they both made mistakes there...I could have told you stealing her tool just before doing a big job would cause trouble..., but at least he was trying to make up for them where he could - while she continued to blame him and refuse to take any responsibility for any of it. I mean, at one point, he even says 'you just wouldn't listen', and she says 'I was going to say the same about you'. . .so the whole game he's TRYING to listen. . .but does she, at any point? No. right up until the end, she's still blaming him. (Can I drop kick her off a cliff myself? Cause yeah. . .I hate her!)

    The game itself. . .I loved having access to nearly the entire city. But WOW was it annoying having to criss-cross the same areas again and again for the 'side jobs'. Having 'sticking points' where you really had to struggle to get around certain guards and never quite be able to deal with them.

    I would say I hated not having the freedom of movement in this game. . .the ability to jump was really missed in some areas, even just to hop onto a pile of trash, etc would have been nice, and I hated being stuck to the ground. HOWEVER, I must say that there was lots of areas to climb onto, hop over, and mantle up to, so in some ways not being able to jump wasn't terribly missed. But it was. Especially in areas where I'd get cornered by the AI and would have liked to hop onto that crate there and scramble back a little further. . .

    The AI. . .and the shadows. . .ugh. The AI itself wasn't terrible. However their ability to see into the shadows when the light-gem was fully dark was INFURIATING. I mean, Garrett is crouched, in a nearly pitch-dark corner and they stand across the room and start screaming because there are villains in the shadows. What? You can't see me?! You're not close enough. I'm not moving, I'm low to the ground. . .what could you POSSIBLY be seeing while you're standing there blinded by the light?!!! WHY?! I'd say this took a lot of the 'fun' out of skulking around in the shadows - when you weren't as hidden as you should be and they could still see you if they were . . .what? At the right angle? -sigh-

    Thief-Taker General. . .ugh. . .can I just say he's also the most annoying. . .I mean, I get it. You're not supposed to love him. But what does he actually DO besides stump around pompously being annoying at inconvenient times? I am guessing he is the replacement for "Sheriff Truart". . .which, ok, does make some sense. But gosh is he annoying!! Though, I did take some pleasure in humiliating him at the end. (Didn't kill him. I imagined him being sent home with his tail between his legs. Suppose that would technically backfire and eventually he'd need to be taken out. . .but yeah. . .for now Garrett had more important matters to deal with - and he doesn't like to kill, so it made sense to me. )

    The action sequences of the game. . .ok these were SO not the relaxing game play I was signed up for. . .and SO not my style of play. And so not your usual 'Thief game' style. But can I just say. . .they were fun!! Maybe a 'better gamer' than I am would not find them so much so. . .but I found them enormously fun. Partly because of the 'hand-holding' through them. I appreciated it. Without it I probably would NOT have found them fun and would have gotten frustrated and stuck. I'm not good at action games and anything that 'rushes' me manages to confuse me. . .even these, I was confused, had NO idea where to go, but was able to point him in more or less the right direction, make him run and we were good to go. (Mostly. A few missed jumps, or too many dives into the fire, or getting squashed and lots of reloads. . .but not to the point of rage-quitting.) I LIKED how I was still in control - but he took over and did a lot of the 'theatrics' by himself. I don't know. . .I wish that there weren't HUGE chunks of three (three?) missions taken up by it. . .but I did find it fun.

    I hate the ending. I felt rather let down. After ALL of that. . .that little twit's response to Garrett coming for her. . .then a repeat of what had happened, only to have her maybe die/maybe survive but apparently she learned absolutely nothing at all through all that (Yeah, I get it. She spent a year being traumatized by stuff. But come on!). . .I just. . .ugh. Then we get ZERO follow up for him. . .just. . .AUGH.

    So, yeah. . .I don't know. All in all. . .it wasn't good. But it wasn't terrible. I did enjoy it. Will I replay it? Ehh. Maybe some, to get achievements I missed. But beyond that, probably not. I think I'm more likely to reinstall the first three - and the dark mod and get those up and playable again. Does feel good to be in a Thief-mood again. I think I missed playing.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Lost in the BSP...
    That's very similar to my thoughts on the game...

    While the technical aspects were wonderful, the graphics looked good, the level design wasn't bad, but that "consoleitis" it suffered from —talking about those window transitions and quick-timey sequences to get through to another part of the map— were some of the things that take what's good about it and just drags it back down into mediocrity.

    I couldn't stand Garrett, with his Goth-y eyes and makeup —I guess he was supposed to have some face-black on to make him more stealthy— but the characters were just terrible: Erin, the Sheriff of Nottingham stumping around and being a pompous ass, then that guy in the alley way selling stuff "for all your nefarious needs" — I mean, WHAT??!! The F?

    And like you said, you had to cross back and forth over the same sections so much, and there was always that one spot that you got stuck on getting around 3 or 4 guards that were always watching each other... And taking them out only had them respawning again when you loaded back into that level.

    It looks great in 4k and all the features enabled, and they put in difficulty customization, but those boxy levels where you couldn't lean out of a window and take potshots at a guard on the street because "it's in a different zone" is just so immersion-breaking. Thank goodness you can hex-edit the dark shroud and flashy-light explosion when entering and exiting shadows, or it just wouldn't be playable for me. At least it's a decent game with everything tweaked.

    But overall, it was just a passing game, just above a Neutral score for me. I played it right after release back in 2014, twice through. Then I uninstalled it, and just recently tried to play through it again here at the beginning of the month, and it took me about 3 chapters to realize that I couldn't continue it — that I still love Thief Gold and The Metal Age SO much more. With all the HD mods and Sound Enhancement Packs, and NewDark, TFixes.. they're even BETTER than I remember.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2021
    From what I understand, this is supposed to take place hundreds of years after the Thief we know, and Garrett is some sort of reincarnation or descendant of the original Garrett (also known as "The Sneak Thief" at this point). I think the linearity, some of the character writing, and the attempts at "darkening" the humor in the game were some of its major pitfalls.

    With this said, I think the plot could be salvaged. It would take a lot of rewriting - preferably with input and editing provided by the series' original writers - but it could be salvaged. Maybe as a fan project. I doubt Eidos would be looking at a sequel or trying to reboot this title again.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Alberta, Canada
    when I saw the thread title my immediate thought was "Oh - my condolences".
    On another forum I have seen this in a users signatuture:

    "Thiaf (2014) - this game wouldn't be worth your money even if it shipped with a brewery and a brothel."
    Last edited by lordhern; 8th Jan 2022 at 19:11.

  5. #5
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2020
    These are my 6 reasons why Thief 2014 sucks:

    1. That shitty animation with Garrett's hands when he's frobbing stuff

    Some people like that.
    Some people consider it interactive and immersive.
    Some people can't survive without having a dick stuck in their eye.
    Just scrap that annoying animation, it does nothing to improve the game, it only hinders it and you can find yourself in the situation where a guard sees you and pummels you to a bloody pulp, and you can't run away and hide, because the frickin animation hasn't finished.
    Real immersive.
    Just right-click and frob the damn thing, no need to see the process of Garrett's hands touching the stuff. Without it, the frobbing distance would improve, stealing from the shadows rather than standing like an idiot with bulging eyes fixated on a spot.

    2. Those goddamn specific points to vault (jump)

    What makes those points so special ?
    Is there a particular type of wall that permits you to vault over ? That bird doodie makes it more sticky to Garrett's hands ?
    Has the master thief such a lame ass physique that requires the chemical properties of shit, to help him climb ?
    He's a THIEF good gracious, not an old senile leprechaun ! Just let me climb wherever i want, you could do that in games 20-30 years ago ! And those didn't had a modern and sophisticated engine to make it work. Scrap the stupid animation, make it quicker, and let me climb anywhere my heart desires.

    3. Those mummified stumps of wood for rope arrows

    Listen here...putting a cloth around a piece of wood, doesn't magically transforms it in an ideal and only place to stick an arrow in. 70% of the game's universe contains wood. Why can't i stick an arrow in any wooden surface, like a window of my choice, or a supporting beam that i like ? Because that's how an idiot of a programmer wanted. Great. Magic mummified beams. Ditch the smelly cloths (i bet they stink like an anchovy's ass, given the time period) and make any wooden surface pierceable.

    3. That X-ray-meth-vision

    Oooh...we have some Predator fans in the house, guys. Wasn't enough all the hand-holding you were doing ? Not every hero or anti-hero needs an addiction. So why make Garrett like a druggie ? He doesn't need to be a pothead, especially when he had, in previous games, a marvelous scout eye, that permitted him to explore the surrounding area undetected. I don't care if Thief 2014 is a reboot, is a stupid idea making him like a Predator. Scrap the nirvana look, and bring back the mechanical eye.
    That's metal.

    4. Those annoying new factions
    (there aren't any factions. just run with it)

    Who came with the brilliant idea to erase the Hammerites, the Pagans, and the Keepers ? You, sir, are a waste of air.
    Oreo...pardon me, ORION and his gloomy universe (pun intended) put nothing new on the table, regarding the story or character development. They're boring and right down depressing.
    The story is a convolute mess, and the characters that populate it don't shed any meaningful light on recent events, or previous ones. Oh, cool, it's a garbage mash of gothic and victorian influences, so of course we need a plague-ridden city with streets festering with unlikable shady characters and socio-political innuendos.
    We can't forget those, what triple A game would be without that delicious social commentary so deeply nailed?
    Because, yeah, it's a no-no to see full nudity or any sexual acts (it promotes objectification) but it's fine to insert dialogue lines about pedophilia (i'm talking here of course about the "Petals" in the whore house, sexy young things under the age of 18). And no, i have no problem that they included that (let's not pretend that something doesn't exist, besides, banning something only makes things worse) but why not go all the way ?
    Bottom line, if you want to be edgy, be edgy all the way, have some balls, if not, set the same boundaries that existed in the past. And also, throw in the dumpster those characters, the world design and period, the socio-commentary, and bring the old stuff back (it's not good because it's old, it's just good) and elevate it with new quality stuff, that doesn't destroy the universe.

    5. The maps

    Just take the people that worked on Thief 2014's maps and give them the boot.
    Ion Storm did a terrific job with the city and the maps, and that was back in 2004. Loading zones aside (which weren't Ion Storm's fault, but Eidos's. look it up.), were beautiful maps and had an awesome design. Even today i can just sit, relax and enjoy the scenery in Thief: Deadly Shadows.
    Scrap the mappers and maps, and bring people that know what they're actually doing.
    'Nuff said.

    6. Benny

    Now, what the hell did you do with Benny ?
    He's nowhere to be found !
    Bad enough that you took Stephen Russell out of the game (he's not even dead the poor fellow), but i suppose that sometimes things need to change, if you can't help it (even though, Stephen Russell IS and ALWAYS WILL BE the voice of Garrett). Ok, so maybe you didn't want to bring back the original voice of Benny...but you want to tell me that you couldn't hire someone with a similar voice ? More so, voices aside, you erased completely his character.
    You sucked out all the humor and spiciness the franchise had. No more Benny, no more jokes, no more dialogues about bears or puss-festering feet. That's inexcusable.
    If Thief 2014 had the dialogues, Benny, the humor, then maybe i would've consider it a guilty pleasure, in spite of all its flaws.
    Just take the franchise from Eidos and Square Enix's hands, and give it to someone that still remembers why they've joined the industry in the first place, and isn't completely humorously bankrupt.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Point Nemo
    I've only tried the Xbox demo of this game and I don't think I'll go any further with it. There's just too many T2 FMs out there, with new ones occasionally being added, that are so good that I just can't spend money and time on this one.

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