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View Poll Results: How long with Biden be president?

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  • 1 Term

    9 36.00%
  • 2 Terms

    6 24.00%
  • Impeachment

    2 8.00%
  • Incapacitated

    8 32.00%
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Thread: Biden

  1. #76
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicker View Post
    The problem with all our economic paradigms is they are based on growth.

    The only way to grow now is to offload the negative results on poor people and poor nations (aka brown people) or push the crisis into the future where the generations a'comin' can deal with it... or not.

    Or we could all move to Mars!! Let's do it, Honey!
    I think that's a bit reductive.

    Socialism and the whole historical materialism thing are also based on growth, growth in productivity. You could argue that all human systems are based on maximizing return on labor investment, not just capitalism.

    Also, factors such as inflation which are often seen as a negative are in fact an important stabilizing and corrective force. For example a situation such as stagflation can still have many of the effective same mechanisms running, but it doesn't actually 'grow'.

    Or you've got key mechanisms like supply/demand curves. Markets do not actually require "growth" to operate, they show how prices go up and down in response to changes in both supply and demand.

    As an example take the national debt. Is it true that if the nation's debt increases then next year, the debt will be harder to pay than this year, and therefore one day, everything will explode?

    Well, actually no. You might have heard some people saying the national debt can keep going up forever and it's not actually a problem. They're completely correct. What's important is that the debt increases *no faster than inflation*. So ... if inflation is 2% then you can have a deficit of 2% of the current debt, and next year the size of the debt, in real terms, will be no greater. So this 8% inflation in this year, well that effectively means the national debt from previous years just shrunk by 8% in real-dollar terms.

    The problem isn't actually that the debt's going up, the problem is that politicians don't have enough restraint in the good years to save up for the bad years, so on aggregate, the debt goes up faster than inflation does. Plus the BS where the profits of the 1% are no longer being taxes, almost at all. Both those things are way more important than the idea that capitalism will collapse without 'growth'.
    Last edited by Cipheron; 11th Sep 2022 at 12:24.

  2. #77
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    It is reductionist by intent. The foundation an economy is ecology. This goes for any economic theory, regardless of the political underpinnings.

    Natural boom and bust population cycles of prey and predators are measured in years. Humans have managed to defer this natural accounting by offloading the problem to the future. Well, that future is here.

    An economy, on any scale, may thrive or fail because of the factors you covered, but it will certainly fail if the ecology it relies on to produce commodities and to absorb the resulting waste, collapses. This can occur, for example, because of reduced rainfall (natural) or the inability of the land to store water (in the form of plant cover) due to human exploitation.

    Environmental collapse accompanies civilization collapse again and again in history, regardless of whether or not the degradation was human caused or natural. Of course other factors can cause or contribute to the fall of civilizations, a region only stays uncivilized of the ability to provide the basics of life have been destroyed.

    Up until now there has always been new land to move to and exploit. Today, not so much. Our economic models are all based on growth: growth of demand, growth of markets, growth of production, growth of resource extraction, growth of waste and, most importantly, growth of population.

    We have nearly exhausted forests to slash and burn, watersheds to drain or treat as sewers. Unless we drastically change to some form of steady-state economy and/or reduce and stabilize our population, nature (or the lack thereof) will adjust our expectations for us.

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