Russia invades Ukraine

[lowenz]

The problem is not that, the problem is half world of "antigov" movements believe Putin is the anti-"american domination system" (=liberals/democratics) messiah.
The narrative is SO pervasive that this war will not end with the end of the war. It's the "post-truth" world Trump gave us. The same way of COVID deniers and antivaxxers.

They've simply cracked the human mind of freemarket-failed individuals, feeding them conspiracies and "alternative truth" narratives like cocaine.

[Silentor]

Looks like there are some serious problems in the Ukrainian Foreign Legion:

Ha, ha... Brasilians listened enough anti-russian propaganda and then faced Reality:

Some of the unit’s commanders are implicated in arms and goods theft, sexual harassment, assault, and sending unprepared soldiers on reckless missions, according to multiple sources.

Starker how dare you post that? You must to give out like this bullshit:

So I wouldn't be greatly surprised, if Olenivka was orchestrated for some completely mundane reason, like someone needing to hide that money meant for the prison was being stolen before an audit happened.

So that nothing is shaken in the brains of yours Trampohater's classroom.

[Starker]

Meanwhile, in Russia:

[Silentor]

He meant: no mercy from their side due endless accumulation of weapons and complete rejection of diplomacy.
But what did Ukranian ambassador in Kazakhstan mean when he said about "the need to kill as many Russians as possible"?

[Tomi]

Last time I checked, it was Russia who invaded Ukraine, not the other way around, so it should be pretty obvious that it's the Z-Nazis who are trying to maximize their kill count. Don't cry about diplomacy or dead compatriots when your country is the oppressor and you are a part of the problem, like a cancer cell in a withered body. And stop pretending to be such an idiot. (Not that you have to pretend, but still.)

Can't we just ban the obvious Russian trolls in here anyway? This guy for example created his account only for this purpose.

[lowenz]

He meant: no mercy from their side due endless accumulation of weapons and complete rejection of diplomacy.

Please stop fooling yourself.

You russian people are in the hands of the real fascists and you must just accept it. Since '99.

[Starker]

Ah, so the complete rejection of diplomacy is coming from the side who got invaded and whose country is being bombed, did I get that right? You mean, they are actually the ones refusing to solve this via peaceful means?

[Cipheron]

Diplomacy while being invaded is called "preparing surrender terms".

What would the terms even be? If Russia has seized by force 10% of the land then Ukraine wouldn't get any of that back in a negotiation, the deal would be that Russia demands another 30% of the land, probably the bits that have oil on them, etc, in exchange for calling off the invasion.

Or more likely it would by Russian occupation of 50% of the country for "peacekeeping" (read: intimidation) plus the arrest of Zelinsky and the installation of a puppet leader suitable to Moscow's aims. They'd end up with Russian troops in the streets and FSB agents calling the shots, and at best a "sham democracy" where people are intimidated into voting for Great Leader's chosen puppet.

A comparison to Vichy France under the Nazis would actually be apt, except I expect Putin to jiggle the strings of whatever marionette becomes president of Ukraine much tighter and with KGB levels of efficiency.

[Tocky]

Can't we just ban the obvious Russian trolls in here anyway? This guy for example created his account only for this purpose.

Oh, he isn't just a troll. Being a troll would imply the Russian people have access to the WWW now. They do not. There is only one group that does have unlimited access in Russia currently. Let's hear what the KGB has to say. That way we know what crap the Kremlin is pushing.

[Silentor]

Stop, after Starker's post I found the official explanation of this ambassador in Vienna and brought it to here. But did you find out what Ukrainian ambassador meant about all Russians? May be russian troopers? May be.

Of course, in this situation with all backgrounds there can be no real role of diplomacy from both sides.

You're making me look like a troll raised by Saruman in the KGB's caverns. Your brains washed no less than ours.
You do not understand what "Truth" you subscribed to by deciding to bet on the Ukrainian Establishment.
At the beginning of special war the Ukrainian delegate from the UN rostrum said that Russia had invaded in order to kill as many civilians as possible.
You did not condemn such a statement, you gave carte blanche for provocations (to everything else, of course).

[driver]

Just ban this tool already.

[Starker]

Stop, after Starker's post I found the official explanation of this ambassador in Vienna and brought it to here. But did you find out what Ukrainian ambassador meant about all Russians? May be russian troopers? May be.

This is a very interesting explanation, though. So defending your country is the same as showing no mercy to your population? What if the population wants your country to be defended?

It's the logic of someone breaking into a home of a family and then wondering why the inhabitants are resisting and why the neighbors came to help, asking whether they want the children in the house to suffer? But is it not natural to resist an attack like this with everything you got and fight back? When Russia defended itself against the German invasion in WW2, were they showing no mercy to the Russian population?

On the contrary, I would suggest that handing your children over to the mercy of an assailant who has already killed members of your family would be far more reckless. We have already seen the quality of Russian mercy in places like Bucha, where civilians were executed with their hands tied behind their backs and left to rot in the streets.

[Dia]

Well said, Starker. Indeed.

[Silentor]

Starker, reasonable argumentation.

We have already seen the quality of Russian mercy in places like Bucha, where civilians were executed with their hands tied behind their backs and left to rot in the streets.

And also by shooting people with white armbands (pro-Russian identification) and stuffing them with flushes (microdarts, that is, from afar by artillery).

About castration case. Perhaps, this is a provocation under a "false flag" ...and false hat picked up for a tv-report a month ago.
Annihilation of your good nazis in prison from us? No words. This group agreed to testify, that's the whole answer.

Tocky, please tell me, you just turned on troll mode in response to me?

Being a troll would imply the Russian people have access to the WWW now. They do not. There is only one group that does have unlimited access in Russia currently.

Or that's indeed how you are imagine life in Russia?
Even in China you can create bridges to all Web without help from Communistic Party.
But our Runet very toxic, not only from "tsar-keepers". And iron cirtain is much more strongly built on your side of virtual space closing access to many resources.

[Nicker]

What does your key jangling have to do with the fact that Russia, without provocation or justification, invaded Ukraine, targeted civilians, murdered tens of thousands of people, destroyed cities, threaten nuclear terrorism and genocide?

The best way to prevent war atrocities is by NOT starting a war. Who started this war, Silentor? Go on. Say it.

[Tomi]

Who started this war, Silentor? Go on. Say it.

Oh that's an easy one.

No one started the war, because it's a special operation.

[Silentor]

The best way to prevent war atrocities is by NOT starting a war.

Are you Jesus?

Who started this war, Silentor? Go on. Say it.

This War began long before Putin decided to cut the Gordian knot.
USA adding fuel to the fire in Afghanistan before our Olympics'80 (although our troops came to just displace our "son of a bitch" and faster turn away).
Provocation at the Beijing Olympics'08 (our peacekeepers had to leave South Ossetia in a few months).
Bloody coup in Kyiv during our Winter Olympics. Yanukovich even offered to hold early elections instead of a bloody answer as Lukashenko did. Why? But... NO!
Imperial ambitions from the Ukrainian elite. Yes, you heard right (with fake maps to Blinken).
Distraction from epic american fail in Afghanistan.
And Putin was happy to provoke himself at the new Olympics, especially two years before the new selfelections.
Everyone is satisfied in own plans how does it not sound cynical. Moscow, Kyiv, NATO.
But 5k+ of local post-soviet population it's payment for Eurointegration. What mean this term, I don't no. Just following for the Brand.

[Nicker]

So, Russia, is what you meant to say?

[Tocky]

troll [/I]mode in response to me?
Or that's indeed how you are imagine life in Russia?
Even in China you can create bridges to all Web without help from Communistic Party.
But our Runet very toxic, not only from "tsar-keepers". And iron cirtain is much more strongly built on your side of virtual space closing access to many resources.

I don't imagine anything. I know what you are. Do you think I buy that you are just an average citizen who found a way around your countries block of the internet? LOL. And the curtain is much stronger from my side LOL! You kill me. NO wait! You kill Ukrainians. You support the paranoid bullshit so much that you have no idea how free everyone except Russia is. The utmost hilarious is the claim that because Ukraine wants it's sovereignty it has imperial ambitions! It just wants you out of it's country killing it's citizens. I don't think you could project any more with a howitzer.

[Starker]

Yanukovich even offered to hold early elections instead of a bloody answer as Lukashenko did. Why? But... NO!

On the very same day he offered early elections, though, he fled, eventually choosing to hide in Russia. And this he was already planning to do before protesters showed up at his place, as the security cam footage shows his security people packing up his valuables days before.

Not that a rag-tag band of civilians armed with air rifles would have been a match for security forces armed with Kalashnikovs and sniper rifles. In fact, no military overthrow of the government took place and the only military unit in Kyiv was ordered to suppress the protestors.

[Silentor]

Do you think I buy that you are just an average citizen who found a way around your countries block of the internet?

When decided to argue with an American about geography. Russia not China. We have a strange censorship (inasmuch as need), but we have no real Firewall. And even chinese average citizen has loopholes. TOR, not heard? In our country for some resources (BBC or twitter). But many ordinary people suffered from the blocking of commercial sites from the western side. That's what I meant.

The utmost hilarious is the claim that because Ukraine wants it's sovereignty it has imperial ambitions!

Not about sovereignty. About a balanced policy on south and east lands which grew during the reign of tovaristch kommunist Ekaterine the Second.

On the very same day he offered early elections, though, he fled, eventually choosing to hide in Russia. And this he was already planning to do before protesters showed up at his place, as the security cam footage shows his security people packing up his valuables days before.

Not that a rag-tag band of civilians armed with air rifles would have been a match for security forces armed with Kalashnikovs and sniper rifles. In fact, no military overthrow of the government took place and the only military unit in Kyiv was ordered to suppress the protestors.

Understood. "Revolution of dignity". Ukrainian tail wagged you well.
What a cunning plan from someone who sits on his own valuables.
Send a military unit by name Berkut to peaceful protestors so that they do with them what you should know since you are so deeply immersed in this theme.
And snipers in the rear to the pan-heads to gather "heavenly hundred".

[Starker]

Well, say what you want about the current president, but he didn't flee when things got tough, even though he had the opportunity. He chose to stay and represent his country, even as things were looking fairly dire in the first hours of the war.

Same with Russian opposition like Navalny.

Meanwhile, Putin hunkers down safely in Russia and has people he meets stay 30 meters away from him, while he sends poor people to die for him and tries to recruit prisoners to fill the gaps.

[Starker]

A short recap of the situation so far:



Also, looks like Russia is quite busy stealing children:

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/...58655268311040

Russia says over 1,000 children from Mariupol 'adopted' in its remote cities.

The local authorities in Russia’s Krasnodar said that over 1,000 Ukrainian children from the occupied city of Mariupol “have found new families” in Tyumen, Irkutsk, Kemerovo, and Altai Krai.

Over 300 children are allegedly “temporarily held in specialized institutions” of Krasnodar, awaiting adoption.

In late July, Ukraine identified 5,600 children forcibly deported to Russia. The real numbers are higher, according to Deputy Interior Minister Kateryna Pavlichenko.

[Starker]

One of the last of the major remaining opposition politicians has been arrested for "discrediting the Russian army" by calling the invasion an invasion:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/...id-ukraine-war

[nemyax]

Being a troll would imply the Russian people have access to the WWW now. They do not.

Huh?

Meanwhile, the provincial kings of context are expressing support for their military:


The shop's motto above goes, "Real meat products", and the poster in the window says "Glory to the soldiers of Russia!"
Apparently the irony is lost on the locals.