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Thread: Russia invades Ukraine

  1. #51
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Location: Los Santos
    Quote Originally Posted by Tocky View Post
    Clearly your publishers clearinghouse intelligence with high level truth invisible to the average person or any person has beaten me. Surely one must trust Matrix quotes over reality.

    Edit: Damn. I ran him off. Come back! I was just Jashin! It's getting so you can't hint that you know why folks are trying to discredit legitimate news at a time when Putin is trying to twist it to his favor.

    Come back baby. I didn't mean it. You still have Italy like the fuhrer did!
    You ran me off? LMFAO. So there are people like you on the internet. My god you are magnificent. Life must be fabulous when you are so special.

    You are right, you ran me off the internet. You know nothing and you're right about everything, and of course you had nothing to say but you won. Bravo, here, have this trophy that I made just for you, you deserve it cus you deserve everything

  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    But how come you know so much about the high levels of operation that us normal people know nothing about? I'm serious, I would love to know.

  3. #53
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2000
    Yeah, he’s disappointingly vague about what is really going on. C’mon, educate us please.

  4. #54
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Took only 2 pages for this thread to turn into a pissing match. And I used to think TTLG was better than reddit. Alas...



    Anyway, don't have much to add besides the fact all this has been hitting me more than I anticipated, as a Polish guy. If you're so inclinded, consider donating to humaniatairan aid.

    Current news is that Russia has been bombing Kiyv and civilian buildings are getting destroyed. It's all bit uncanny because half of the photos I'm seeing could've been taken in Poland, with a lot of similar climate and architecture. I spoke with my gramma who lived thru WW2 and saying how they already went thru all this, watching people hide in basements and making emergency escape plans. Polish border is open and iirc they accepted some 30k refugees so far, with space for potential 1mil IIRC. In Ukraine, apparently the gov is handing out civilians weapons at this point and all males 18 to 60 (!) are called to service. Some videos are also coming out showing the Russian troops having really low morale about invading, or flat out not even understanding what they're really doing.

    Just one giant, stupid clusterfuck.
    Last edited by Yakoob; 26th Feb 2022 at 04:17.

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakoob View Post
    Took only 2 pages for this thread to turn into a pissing match. And I used to think TTLG was better than reddit. Alas...

    Lol dont you remember the heyday of Commchat, hell lasting 2 pages back then would have been an impressive result.

  6. #56

  7. #57
    New Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Hello,

    There's something I'd like to share here as I feel like this doesn't get enough coverage; If you want to help (as a gamer) there is an actual way to do it. Some of the gaming companies (AFAIK: mostly smaller studios from eastern Europe) are going to donate 100% of their games revenue for X amount of time to Ukraine-related causes/organizations. This was initially started by 11 bit's This War of Mine (which made sense, considering this game's subject matter), but other devs joined the initiative.

    Here's a list of devs, that I know of:
    --> https://twitter.com/11bitstudios/sta...449027/photo/1
    --> https://twitter.com/CrunchingKoalas/...322304/photo/1
    --> https://twitter.com/AllinGamesPub/st...290564/photo/1
    --> https://twitter.com/GamesRedDeer/sta...354060/photo/1
    --> https://www.facebook.com/Amanita.Des...024118/?type=3
    --> https://twitter.com/Bungie/status/14...C5-da1tMYpAAAA
    --> https://twitter.com/State_of_Play/st...192451/photo/1

    I'd like to stress, that this is not just the typical corporate non-action bullshit, they are in fact going to (if those statements are to be believed) take a financial hit from it. Of course you can make an argument, that they are doing this just for PR etc. (which they probably do) but the outcome is still worth it in my opinion. I mean, I'm not saying "go buy everything", it's just that if you are already interested in some of those games and/or you are missing some of the DLCs, then maybe it is worth to pick them up at this point.

    It's also funny/sad how as mentioned, this is mostly done by smaller indie devs, but I am yet to see any initiative like this from larger studios/publishers. Granted, I didn't do any extensive research, but the only reaction from any larger player was some CDPR donation. Couldn't find anything when it comes to Activision, Ubisoft, Xbox, etc. though.
    Last edited by Szynek; 26th Feb 2022 at 10:46.

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakoob View Post
    Took only 2 pages for this thread to turn into a pissing match. And I used to think TTLG was better than reddit. Alas...
    You wound me. I was just having a bit of fun. I thought that was obvious. Was I supposed to keep quiet about knowing what he was doing in discrediting news sources at this particular time and those particular news sources? Sorry. I just do not expect any actual information from someone casting unsupported aspersions right now. Maybe I should have asked all serious about a 300 million a year disinformation campaign against China being routed through AP and Reuters. And because of white guilt no less. Is that what you would like? Get some secret agent intel off of Youtube links? I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm doing it again. I'll stay out of it and let you folks draw it out of him. I just find it bitterly amusing is all, particularly in a thread about Russian aggression to reestablish a puppet government.

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicker View Post
    History teaches us that appeasing bullies has a down side, especially when the population is punished by sanctions.

    Also sanctions will have a huge effect on people who don't even know their needs are integrated into the Russian economy and supply chains.

    Whether those pains are enough to stop Putin, we don't know. He is sick in the head. I think he would understand a gesture like increasing NATO presence on the opposite border of Ukraine. Certainly he got permission to act based on how quickly NATO and the UN abandoned the military option and leaving Ukraine to be picked off with impunity. It also signals that his imperialist strategy is worth the risk, because there is little down side for him personally.

    And that's the key, this isn't a nation to nation fight. Like T***p, it's all about Vlad.

    NATO and the UN are also about meeting force with force, in repelling aggressive war, to prevent tyrants from getting a foothold, to discourage their ambitions and to protect civilians. NATO and the UN have arguably failed to do the very thing they were designed and intended to do. To respond with force to illegal war.
    This is what I should have responded to. It's just that I agree with every word of it and I often do not respond in such cases. I suppose I could say that it would only impress Vlad if forces responded quickly but that is obvious. I'm sure we are all thinking back to another expansionist leader.

    I will say that those supply chains need rerouting and should never have become dependent on Russia to begin with. This should be clear to Europe and the US now.

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Location: Los Santos
    Quote Originally Posted by PigLick View Post
    But how come you know so much about the high levels of operation that us normal people know nothing about? I'm serious, I would love to know.
    Quote Originally Posted by zacharias View Post
    Yeah, he’s disappointingly vague about what is really going on. C’mon, educate us please.
    I'm a normal person who knows just enough to know the mainstream version is leading me to the wrong conclusion, so I go and do more research. I have the common sense to know something big doesn't just happen in 1 day, there's always a buildup. It helps to be multi-lingual, multi-literate to break through the wall of information control, but it's not a requirement. And honestly it doesn't take very much digging before the kind of information surfaces that will call into doubt the stories that are being pushed in the MSM. The information is in plain sight, although some of it is cloaked in jargons and doublespeak.

    A cursory dig into the situation in Ukraine showed me the current situation can be traced back to 2004 Ukrainian presidential election, and the Orange Revolution, in which the losing candidate accused the winner of election fraud, and wins in the rerun. That's the start of Ukraine's drift from being a neutral state between big powers. The key is the people involved. That candidate, Viktor Yushchenko 6 years before had married a US state dept. worker who was sent to run an US-funded NGO in the newly independent Ukraine. This planted the seed that was later followed up by the 2014 Euromaidan which installed Petro Poroshenko, whereby the real trouble started. A lot of it and more is covered in the John Mearsheimer video from Feb 21, just 3 days before the start of the war. What he did not say was how much Ukrainian economy, already bad from 20 years of mismanagement & outside influences, crashed following Poroshenko's entering into office, how he gave key govt. jobs to foreigners (Americans) and together they hollowed out the country, leading to a 10% drop in GDP in 2015, 5 million workers losing their job, the country being called "The Womb of Europe," etc., allowing neo-nazism to take root in that misery.

    A lot has happened in the 8 years since which brings the current situation into focus, and goes to explain why Russia, faced with existing sanctions since 2014 (warfare by economic means) and the mother of all sanctions after, still sent troops in. The question one asks is, "Why, what is at stake for them?" The Minsk II was the last chance for peace, but alas... If you do some research it becomes plain as day. Knowing all this and more, the "Crazy Putin" theory doesn't hold any water.

    Domestically, the ones at the top of the government (of both dem and rep) are loving it. They got two sibling countries fighting each other, capital leaving Europe back to US, and you folks have had your attention diverted from real issues at home like the wealth inequity, homelessness, crumbling infrastructure, etc. etc. chest-pumping, red in the eyes, thinking that the world is as simple as good guy and bad guy.
    Last edited by Jashin; 26th Feb 2022 at 16:10.

  11. #61
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    Get out of here, Putin.

  12. #62
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Location: Los Santos
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer View Post
    Get out of here, Putin.
    Ah yes, no facts please, just character assassination.

    You seem stressed. Deep breaths, and then come back with something thoughtful and intelligent. This isn't a discussion otherwise.

  13. #63
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    Get out of here, Putin.

  14. #64
    Zelensky to the US proposing evac: "I need ammo, not a ride."

    Looks like he's is going full Allende, which is commendable... I just hope the ending will be different this time

  15. #65
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Location: Los Santos
    Quote Originally Posted by rachel View Post
    Zelensky to the US proposing evac: "I need ammo, not a ride."

    Looks like he's is going full Allende, which is commendable... I just hope the ending will be different this time
    It ends the same way, as the Afghans before him, and the Kurds before that, so on.

    War is ugly business, people caught up in it that doesn't get a choice. To be for peace one has to know why it's happening and what let to it.

    I understand not everyone can or wants to break through the information control. I did little other than post some information available anywhere.

    It is what it is. A few will be thoughtful and engage the thinking cap.

  16. #66
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    I love the Ukraine resistance. Bless Zelensky for that. Did you see where some are saying it's Anonymous that hacked the Russians with Ukrainian songs on their broadcast? https://securityaffairs.co/wordpress...-ministry.html
    I hope they keep it up. I hope the Ukrainians resist until Russia has to tuck it's tail and leave. Of course then they will have to overthrow whatever puppet leader Russia has installed and run another election but I have a lot of respect for Ukraine now. In honor of the islanders last words there should be a Fuck You campaign against Putin.

    And my god at the propaganda! Have you been on facebook lately? In addition to the usual suspects flooding it with pro Russia BS they are hiring a lot of Africans to lie for them. Check out The Daily Mail site. They have always been swamped with Russians (and farmed out Macedonians) any time any issue about Russia has popped up but it's getting crazy there now. Paid shills must be mopping up.

    Oh yeah, and lots of calls for peace now that Russia is in control of Ukraine. Sure they want it NOW. No resistance is good for them. Be good and let us install a puppet government. LOL.

  17. #67
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Jashin View Post
    allowing neo-nazism to take root in that misery.
    Sigh.

    You're led to wrong conclusions by yourself and the "MEDIA LIES!!!1111" religion.
    Surely the media can lie, but you people have a pseudognostic Matrix-like religion about that (-> the self proclaimed redpills)
    Read some Voegelin ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Voegelin ) about that and you'll know better what's behind "MEDIA LIES!!!1111" religion.

    Azov battalion is "nazistoid", not neo-nazi and it's so because it is born from football supporters (YES), like it happens here in Italy (see Hellas Verona supporters, they are self-declared "neo-nazi" but of course Verona city or Italy are not "nazi" realities, LOL ).
    Ukranian nationalists are maybe fascists (it's why Putin calls them "Banderovtsi" -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera ), surely not nazis: how it can the JEW Zelensky be a president of a nazi-state to "denazify" ? (cit. Putin). He's jew, bonjour.

    The lies are totally from the Cremlin this time. And really stupid and childish ones. A nazi state in jew hands.....and I'm Garrett the Thief
    Last edited by lowenz; 26th Feb 2022 at 17:42.

  18. #68
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Addendum: the f(o)under of the "nazi" Azov Battalion is a jew too

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ihor_Kolomoyskyi
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/bloody...ide-synagogue/

    Now I hope you can see Putin's childish lies (not that I prefer an ukrainian-jew oligarch to a russian oligarch, for me they're the same but I love to show how Putin has a real dedication to plainly and openly alter the reality, like Trump - you know, KGB legacy)

  19. #69
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2017
    Location: Ukraine
    @Jashin If omit some details, in general you have provided correct picture of the history.
    On first Maidan we (Ukrainians) were not agree with the results of president's elections. According to the "official" results Victor Janukovich (with "whited" criminal past, pro-russian candidate) was the winner. The people were not agree with such results, there was a big number of things showing that votes were fake. Few people started the protest on the main square of Kyiv, which is called "Maidan of the Independence". Police stopped this in cruel way and, as result, on the next day there were thousands. People were exhausted for many different processes in the country. That time everything was peaceful. The result of 1st Maidan was election of the president - Victor Jushenko (pro-european candidate). Unfortunately, his weak political actions, during his term, caused that next president becomes Victor Janukovich and his political team start dominating in the parliament. A lot of different pro-russian laws were accepted, while pro-european - not. During his term he was destroying our army - selling military equipment and vehicals, shrinking the number of soldiers (by russian president recommendations). And in some moment Janukovich should decide the following: go into russian Tamozhenyi Souz (what actually right now is Russia-Belarus-Kazakhstan) or select moving into EU direction. Of course he selected russian direction. And that cause...
    2014 Euromaidan. Once again all started from the small group of students, that were not agree with this decision. And again - police stopped that. Next day - thousands people, which started blaming him mainly for this choice and a lot of others pro-russian laws. "It" (russian president) even send personally to Janukovich a lot of money,as Ukrainian debt, for "correct" choice and say to stop Maidan. At some point police start acting brutally against it's own people. Situation becomes worse and worse with every day, and than start shooting at the people. Later there were evidences that "it" send his special police ("Omon") to Ukraine to stop Maidan, for whatever it takes. A lot of people died in that period, but people were not afraid. I would say, it really united us as nation - Maidan transformed into small city, where everybody knew what to (who protects, who heals injured, who brings supplies, food, etc) and how to manage things inside, whithout politicians. After the attacks, there was really low trust to the politics, who were at the head of Maidan (Klichko, Jatsenyuk, Tagnybok). At some point some people decided to visit house of Janukovich and "say hi". But Janukovich decideed to flee into Rostov-na-Donu (russia). And the 2nd Maidan was over, the new president becomes Petro Poroshenko. At that point Ukraine was weak, "it" used that situation and annexed Crimea peninsula (at the South of Ukraine) without blood. By the time when "it" start capturing the East of Ukraine (Luhansk and Donetsk regions or Donbass area) our people were ready to "say welcome" with guns. It was a miracle, that for so short time we had an army created from scratch (thanks for ruinned army to Janukovich) by our own people, who decided to pay back for Crimea and support of our west partners. Unfortunately russia was able to annex part of East of Ukraine and then all these cease-fire, diplomacy start working for 8 years.
    And now we have these, thanks to that asshole "it". He thought that it will be 2-3 days operation. Pff. Now even ordinary people in Kyiv, Kharkiv, Kherson, Mykolaiv and other cities are successfully stoping russian vehicles with guns, cocktails Molotov, anti-tanks complexes. We have a long queues of people who wants to be in army or territorial protection. They all stands there not because of military law, but by their anger to kill at least one occupant personally. We will protect our country to the last.

    I want once again to thank everyone, who helps us to stop that crazy, mind-illed Nazis terrorist and protect our Ukraine territory.

    GLORY TO UKRAINE!
    СЛАВА УКРАЇНІ!

    P.s.: please forgive me if I wrote smth in not-english.
    Last edited by serg_kundel; 26th Feb 2022 at 18:32.

  20. #70
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    It doesn't matter a lick whether Russia feels threatened by NATO or whatever insecurities they have. Nazi Germany likewise felt threatened by jews and bolsheviks and liberals. It doesn't even for a moment justify the atrocities they commit on their own people or the war of aggression against their neighbours.

    And even though Germany was the only one to suffer any consequences the last time, there are still people who remember that Poland was attacked from two sides.

  21. #71
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by serg_kundel View Post
    mind-illed Nazis terrorist and protect our Ukraine territory.
    It's just a KGB-rised liar and puppetmaster (you can't believe how Putin's propaganda is rooted here in Italy too, it's crazy) from the Cold War era, having a great, gigantic, "male" fascination over desperate people as the ultimate dux (more than POTUS to 'muricans).

    Please forgive russians blinded by him, they can't understand how they're constantly manipulated by old KGB people now controlling the "democratic" (ahah) state with old tricks. They can't realize the real dimension of this "game". Just see the fake, theatrical interactions between Putin and his own staff of "stupid buracrats" humiliated every single time through RT (Russia Today TV) just to elevate Putin to a "titan" figure. It's all fake but it works well to create and feed the deus ex machina myth.
    Last edited by lowenz; 26th Feb 2022 at 18:10.

  22. #72
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: 1, Rotation: 0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jashin View Post
    I'm a normal person who knows just enough to know the mainstream version is leading me to the wrong conclusion, so I go and do more research. I have the common sense to know something big doesn't just happen in 1 day, there's always a buildup. It helps to be multi-lingual, multi-literate to break through the wall of information control, but it's not a requirement. And honestly it doesn't take very much digging before the kind of information surfaces that will call into doubt the stories that are being pushed in the MSM. The information is in plain sight, although some of it is cloaked in jargons and doublespeak.

    A cursory dig into the situation in Ukraine showed me the current situation can be traced back to 2004 Ukrainian presidential election, and the Orange Revolution, in which the losing candidate accused the winner of election fraud, and wins in the rerun. That's the start of Ukraine's drift from being a neutral state between big powers. The key is the people involved. That candidate, Viktor Yushchenko 6 years before had married a US state dept. worker who was sent to run an US-funded NGO in the newly independent Ukraine. This planted the seed that was later followed up by the 2014 Euromaidan which installed Petro Poroshenko, whereby the real trouble started. A lot of it and more is covered in the John Mearsheimer video from Feb 21, just 3 days before the start of the war. What he did not say was how much Ukrainian economy, already bad from 20 years of mismanagement & outside influences, crashed following Poroshenko's entering into office, how he gave key govt. jobs to foreigners (Americans) and together they hollowed out the country, leading to a 10% drop in GDP in 2015, 5 million workers losing their job, the country being called "The Womb of Europe," etc., allowing neo-nazism to take root in that misery.

    A lot has happened in the 8 years since which brings the current situation into focus, and goes to explain why Russia, faced with existing sanctions since 2014 (warfare by economic means) and the mother of all sanctions after, still sent troops in. The question one asks is, "Why, what is at stake for them?" The Minsk II was the last chance for peace, but alas... If you do some research it becomes plain as day. Knowing all this and more, the "Crazy Putin" theory doesn't hold any water.

    Domestically, the ones at the top of the government (of both dem and rep) are loving it. They got two sibling countries fighting each other, capital leaving Europe back to US, and you folks have had your attention diverted from real issues at home like the wealth inequity, homelessness, crumbling infrastructure, etc. etc. chest-pumping, red in the eyes, thinking that the world is as simple as good guy and bad guy.
    So far, you haven't provided even a single instance of all those mainstream media lies you go on about. Instead we get half-baked conspiracy theories about how Ukraine's drift towards the west is really orchestrated by the US because Yushchenko is married to an American NGO worker, a non-sequitur about how "a lot" that happened in the last 8 years supposedly explains why Russia sent troops in, followed by the utter horseshit that the US government loves this war. And you didn't fail to bring up the conspiracy theorists' gold standard: "do some research."

    Putin denies Ukraine's right to exist as an independent country, plain and simple. He considers the breakup of the Soviet Union to be the biggest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century, and he considers control over Ukraine to be Russia's birthright. We know this because he's gone to great lengths to explain in his own words directly to the people that this is how he thinks. Nobody wanted this war. Not the USA, not Europe, certainly not Ukraine, and most likely neither did most Russians. Only Putin wanted this. He and no one else.

  23. #73
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by serg_kundel View Post
    I want once again to thank everyone, who helps us to stop that crazy, mind-illed Nazis terrorist and protect our Ukraine territory.

    GLORY TO UKRAINE!
    СЛАВА УКРАЇНІ!
    If we don't then we truly aren't worth a damn. I feel guilt that we haven't already done more. May you never run low on ammo, brother.

  24. #74
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by hopper View Post
    Instead we get half-baked conspiracy theories about how Ukraine's drift towards the west is really orchestrated by the US because Yushchenko is married to an American NGO worker, a non-sequitur about how "a lot" that happened in the last 8 years supposedly explains why Russia sent troops in, followed by the utter horseshit that the US government loves this war. And you didn't fail to bring up the conspiracy theorists' gold standard: "do some research."
    There's no need of Yushchenko and his wife and classic&elegant "geopolitical" conspiracies - hey nbohr - when you got "grey eminence" characters like Kolomoyskyi (backing Yushchenko) fighting Putin loyalist oligarchs (like Abramovich).

    Still Putin, far from being "mad", is the most directly dangerous man in Europe. Just remember that Alexey Navalny's "medic" died 'cause Navalny has not.

  25. #75
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by hopper View Post
    Putin denies Ukraine's right to exist as an independent country, plain and simple. He considers the breakup of the Soviet Union to be the biggest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century, and he considers control over Ukraine to be Russia's birthright. We know this because he's gone to great lengths to explain in his own words directly to the people that this is how he thinks. Nobody wanted this war. Not the USA, not Europe, certainly not Ukraine, and most likely neither did most Russians. Only Putin wanted this. He and no one else.
    It's more complex than that.

    Putin thinks the Russian Federation must NOT be tied to USSR experiment (it hates it and it hates Lenin for not being a "patriot" but a "traitor" just like Krushev in '54 ), he thinks the Russian Federation must be the new Rome of Eurasia, being the Ukraine what Tuscany ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruria ) was to Rome.
    Putin hates every single part of the "soviet" ideology, and its "anti-nationalism" over all the other aspects. It's why he prefer to call the ukrainian nationalists Banderovtsi or in western-fashion "nazis". He think itself the "ultimate" patriot, the true pure nationalist.....ending to be a Stalin-like "democratic" tyrant.
    Last edited by lowenz; 26th Feb 2022 at 19:00.

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