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Thread: Russia invades Ukraine

  1. #126
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    That reminds me, my first day I interned at the US State Dept's law office, my first task was the reorganize their records in one section, and that had me doing a deep dive in the US-USSR negotiations over the Alaska-Soviet border from the US negotiators' perspective, something like quarterly meetings basically from I guess the Yalta Conference up to 1991 when the whole thing (unsurprisingly) evaporated overnight. I just remember being completely absorbed reading through those records.

    A very interesting amount of the Cold War was wrapped up in those negotiations ... early warning systems, nuclear bomber & submarine routes, etc., strategic factors I'd imagine didn't completely disappear. So I wouldn't use the term complete non-starter.

  2. #127
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Maybe it's not a non-starter for the Cold War planners, but to the rest of us, the idea that anyone is going to invade Russia from Alaska is pretty laughable. I mean, it's friggin' 5700 miles from Vladivostok to Moscow. It takes 7 days to get there on a high-speed train.

  3. #128
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Alaska-Vladivostok is a complete non-starter. Not least because it would require a lot of travel through vast areas of very little importance and it's not how modern wars are conducted in any case.
    And that proves that "PEOPLE'S SECURITY NEEDS" is a joke. Like the "Ukrainian NAZIS" (with a jew memorial hit by someone in the R.F. Army that maybe would meet some Mossad operatives in the future )

  4. #129
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Maybe it's not a non-starter for the Cold War planners, but to the rest of us, the idea that anyone is going to invade Russia from Alaska is pretty laughable. I mean, it's friggin' 5700 miles from Vladivostok to Moscow. It takes 7 days to get there on a high-speed train.
    Exactly, so "asian" russians are not "our people" to Mr. Putin.....so much for protecting "people" from NAZIS and the Great Western Satan.....oh wait, the people care is an excuse.

  5. #130
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Nobody's invading Russia while they have a nuclear deterrent.

    Thanks to Cipheron for that link and context. That was really interesting.

  6. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Maybe it's not a non-starter for the Cold War planners, but to the rest of us, the idea that anyone is going to invade Russia from Alaska is pretty laughable. I mean, it's friggin' 5700 miles from Vladivostok to Moscow. It takes 7 days to get there on a high-speed train.
    It's still relevant to the bush pilots flying out of Nome, Unalakleet, etc. when they do supply runs to Diomede, because the Russian border is between the two islands. The airspace is still tightly controlled and you could get in trouble if you inadvertently cross the line, even if what you're flying is just a small 185...

  7. #132
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    I live in the training path of a helicopter division from a not too distant AFB. They flew over once with about twenty of them in a line and my wife asked from the window what that noise was. I made the mistake of pointing at them with my flashlight that I hadn't thought to turn off (I had been working on plumbing in the shade). All twenty of them circled our house as I sheepishly pointed to the flashlight and waved. Well they are doing something now that I have never seen them do before. I can't even say what it is but it bodes well for Ukraine if they are doing it for the reason I think. I sure hope we have the balls to help at least.

  8. #133
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Jashin View Post
    Domestically, the ones at the top of the government (of both dem and rep) are loving it. They got two sibling countries fighting each other, capital leaving Europe back to US, and you folks have had your attention diverted from real issues at home like the wealth inequity, homelessness, crumbling infrastructure, etc. etc. chest-pumping, red in the eyes, thinking that the world is as simple as good guy and bad guy.
    WHAT
    THE
    HELL

    (from the Trump Dump) https://www.reddit.com/r/Qult_Headqu...e_twitter_gop/
    +
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2024055.html

  9. #134
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    The first one is hardly that outrageous - bad or corrupt politicians always love some major event or scandal to distract the public from what a bad job they're doing, so long as it doesn't affect them too much personally. Be that a major scandal (that they are not involved in), a big celebrity birth or marriage, or even a war.

    That's a staple of politics. If you want to do something that might be unpopular, you wait until something major happens to distract the public away from it.

  10. #135
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    The *same* words are outrageous, not the "obviously correct" argument.

  11. #136
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    This war is distracting us from the things GenX has been bitching about for 40 years. What.

    Edit: And distracting us from all the things that both conservative parties, but especially the GOP, created and worsened during that time.
    Last edited by Jason Moyer; 3rd Mar 2022 at 00:03.

  12. #137
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    The first one is hardly that outrageous - bad or corrupt politicians always love some major event or scandal to distract the public from what a bad job they're doing, so long as it doesn't affect them too much personally. Be that a major scandal (that they are not involved in), a big celebrity birth or marriage, or even a war.

    That's a staple of politics. If you want to do something that might be unpopular, you wait until something major happens to distract the public away from it.
    Yeah, but it's unhinged to say that a politician would trigger some transient event to cover up homelessness. Homelessness is an endemic problem, it's still there once the dust has settled. So as a rule of thumb, you wouldn't use transient events to cover up endemic problems, because that's not a sustainable policy, entirely due to them being endemic.

    BTW QAnons are saying now that Covid is officially over, because the liberals moved on to Ukraine, thus the "narrative has shifted". This is pure projection, because the right-wing pick up and dump "narratives" willy-nilly. For example shifting from the "storm" narrative which never happened, to the "stolen election" narrative. The convenient factor here is that The Storm and also the Stolen Election were based on purely fictitious reality, so they can be chopped and changed as needed.

    However, the rest of us like to think we're actually operating in reality. And right now, Covid is an endemic, real-world problem, and it's not the "political fiction" the right-wing is trying to claim.

    At this point the right are so devoid from reality that whenever anything ACTUALLY happens in the world you can bet on some bleating idiots going on about how it's not really happening, so the rest of us just have to stop talking to them and shove them out of the way "get out of the fucking way, grown ups are trying to do stuff here". I mean, the right used to have a different spin on events, and there was some debate to be had, different values overlaying the discussion. But now ... they have their own separate fantasy reality with it's own events. They might as well live in Narnia now.
    Last edited by Cipheron; 3rd Mar 2022 at 03:49.

  13. #138
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Apparently Ukraine is offering amnesty and about $40,000 to any Russian soldiers who request asylum.

    Spread the word.


  14. #139
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Brilliant but what about double agents.....

  15. #140
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by Cipheron View Post
    Yeah, but it's unhinged to say that a politician would trigger some transient event to cover up homelessness.
    To be honest, I don't think many politicians in the USA (or in most other places) really care that much about homelessness. It's something that we have (sadly) become used to, it's not considered a scandal that nothing is being done about it.


    The problem with conspiracy theories is that they always have a grain of truth in them, but they use completely distorted reasoning to come to ludicrous conclusions.
    There's likely a link between Covid starting to die down around the world and the timing of this invasion, but it's more to do with the fact that it's hard to illegally invade another country when you are busy handling a pandemic.

    -

    That's another good video by Beau. I was wondering about the fact that Russia has conscription myself.

    To be honest, I still think one of the biggest problems in this invasion (and in pretty much all wars) is that countries have militaries who are indoctrinated to follow orders no matter what, rather than being taught morality and ethics so they would refuse such orders.
    If a "leader" orders their army to illegally invade another country, in an ideal world the normal response should be "no". But that's not how militaries work.

  16. #141
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    WHAT
    THE
    HELL
    Yep. Also right before the ruble went to complete shit they had downgraded to less expensive Nigerian trolls. Now I don't even think they can afford those. Also the internet troubles they have had due to Anonymous have cut down of their personal social media presence.

    As far as non violent things Ukrainians can do, a bag of sugar in the gas tank is a time honored way to stop an engine for good.

  17. #142
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    Brilliant but what about double agents.....
    There will always be bad actors. It's a numbers game.

  18. #143
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Apparently, people are trying to flee Russia right now as rumors of the actual war are starting to spread. Obviously even if the TV is not telling them anything, the effects of the sanctions are starting to hit, and there have been runs on banks with people trying to withdraw money. So the public in Russia definitely know the shit is hitting the fan even if the news in Russia is sanitized.

    This is from people's social media who say they have friends in Russia however, so not a confirmed news source:

    The fears are that during an upcoming Presidential Address, Putin will declare martial law and conscription. People are heading to the borders but finding that they can't get plane tickets and the border guards are confiscating and searching people's phones so they're deleting all the private messages on there before they get to the border (person's friend was apparently trying to get into Latvia).

    Well, what about that "responsible leader" stuff now. Surely, Putin should "bend the knee" right about now rather than have his people suffer with international sanctions and blockades, right?

    EDIT: came across news articles about it, EDIT^2, removed paywall

    https://web.archive.org/web/20220228...-iron-curtain/
    Last edited by Cipheron; 3rd Mar 2022 at 12:47.

  19. #144
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: thiefgold.com
    Looks like Google removed the RT News site from its search results

  20. #145
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Azaran View Post
    Looks like Google removed the RT News site from its search results
    Comment section of RT is a cove of useful idiots ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot ) and total nuts.

    I mean, when Sassoli (European Parlament President) has died the more gentle comment was "Damn Pedophile" 'cause he was catholic (so "pedophile" takes over "communist" he literally didn't can be) and slender.
    Last edited by lowenz; 3rd Mar 2022 at 17:25.

  21. #146
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    Well they shut down the only independent news station in Russia. https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispa...vision-channel

  22. #147
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    An optimistic perspective from Beau.


  23. #148
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    I noticed something, there are a lot of videos claiming it's black people being denied access to trains in Ukraine.

    But all the videos only start AFTER the doors of the train are closed and the train is leaving, and the platform railworkers are keeping people back from the train.

    So you see people who can't get on a train, because it's already closed it's doors and MOVING, but what you do NOT see is people being *selectively* let on a train, while others are excluded.

    Why don't the videos start literally 1 minute earlier, and show which people got on the train? If they REALLY only let white people onto the trains, then surely *that video* would be the smoking gun

    What they do not show you tells you as much as what they do show, and in this case I assume that seeing the people who actually got on the train wouldn't fit "the narrative" which is that there's racism in who can board trains.

    So a bit of fridge logic suggests that these videos were deceptively edited.

  24. #149
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    I don't think "racism" can exist with GRAD missiles flying around.

  25. #150
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicker View Post
    An optimistic perspective from Beau.

    +



    We have literally watched the battle through the webcam eye.....

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