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Thread: Russia invades Ukraine

  1. #201
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    Russia be like, "What? It worked for the U.S. invading Iraq."
    +PLANdemic nuts "Damn nazis, wanting to infect us all! COVID is not from our good friend China, is from Ukraine!"

    BTW https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vozrozhdeniya_Island

    I think this is nazi too, maybe "very very estearn ukraine"

  2. #202
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    I almost wish Soul Tear were back to tell us all about how perfectly normal things are in Russia and how disconnecting the internet is going to hurt the West much more than it's going to hurt Russia.
    And also how Russians are totally not fleeing to Finland.

  3. #203
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    Let me put just ONE photo about the second character, so you'll see how things are really are.....



    Internal Affairs minister, well known PROTEAN opportunist since 1993. Yes, you read right: 1993.
    Putin is SO right about "weakness" of the West. A MENTAL weakness.
    Now, THAT'S THE KARMA



    Just arrived in Poland and BOOOOM

    Yes, that's our (?!?!?!?!) ex internal affair minister the IDEAL "useful idiot" for Putin

  4. #204
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    A commentary on why Russia's progress appeared to get hampered so quickly.


  5. #205
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Republican Never-Trumper Max Boot making some of the same points. Take with a grain of salt however since this guy was a big Iraq War booster.

    The gist of this article is that Ted Cruz and other Republicans who Max Boot is opposed to are claiming that the US military is "woke" because they care about stamping out racism and sexism in the armed forces, and thus the Russians would beat us, because they're Real Men(tm) (i.e. assholes). But in reality, the US would mop the floor with the Russians with very little problem. That's jingoistic but thoroughly believable given the evidence of Ukraine.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20220303...ilitary-power/
    Last edited by Cipheron; 9th Mar 2022 at 08:30.

  6. #206
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    I mean, the last time US troops fought Russians (well, Russian mercenaries) directly in Syria, they absolutely wiped the floor with them.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/w...ies-syria.html

  7. #207
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Er, except the part about it being two nuclear-armed states & if this war is a sign that Putin is growing erratic, paranoid, & not beyond using them. Or for that matter Trump 2.0 if the cookie crumbles that way. =[

    Not that that contradicts your point. More that, in that case nobody wins, as OG-AI Joshua would have put it.

    Speaking of which, this meme speaks to me in a deep way that's hard to express but I think many of us here would understand...


  8. #208
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Exactly

  9. #209
    Great vid about logistics dema. I remember back when I had just read Red Storm Rising and was reading about it, that it was apparently part of the curriculum at West Point because of its (justified) emphasis on how the logistics of supply lines was crucial for any large scale conflict scenario (East Germany in the book)... a lesson the US themselves promptly forgot when they invaded Iraq IIRC.

    Of course what sucks is that even if Russia can't hold it, Ukraine will suffer enormously before they get out of it, and there's the extra uncertainty of whether Putin is sane enough still to refrain from using nukes.

    Great times we live in.

  10. #210
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    I very much doubt nuclear weapons would be used as part of regular warfare. If the US invaded Russia or something, that would be another story.

  11. #211
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    What if Ukraine invades Russian-occupied Ukraine? Not just the currently fought over areas, but Donbas? Or Crimea? Will Putin decide that's an invasion, and let fly?

  12. #212
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Even if Putin himself is insane enough to press the button, can he even do that unilaterally?
    If not, I'd say there's a good chance he'll get Theon Greyjoy'd by his own generals.

  13. #213
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    I very much doubt nuclear weapons would be used as part of regular warfare. If the US invaded Russia or something, that would be another story.
    They're for us in Western Europe, not for Ukraine or over there in baltic Repubblics.

  14. #214
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    Even if Putin himself is insane enough to press the button, can he even do that unilaterally?
    Button=100 warheads (or more per missile so 200/300), not 1

  15. #215
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    There's no need for nuclear weapons to destroy everything. Regular bombings can be every bit as devastating, and we have come a long way since 1945, so there are actually conventional bombs that rival nuclear weapons by now.

  16. #216
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    I don't think that the oligarchs who Putin shills for want to sail their mega yachts around a smoldering cinder, fighting mutant pirates. They won't let him nuke.

    They might not have to stop him though. He's shut down the power for the Chernobyl nuclear plant and put the quarantine and spent fuel storage at risk. And shelling active nuclear plants as well...

  17. #217
    I just mentioned it because it's a risk, however distant. The EU and the US are walking on eggshells trying to help but not look like belligerents for this reason... Like everyone, I hope cooler heads will prevail.

  18. #218
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    Button=100 warheads (or more per missile so 200/300), not 1
    That's not relevant to my question.

  19. #219
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    That's not relevant to my question.
    Just a reminder that the possible strike is a swarm strike.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    There's no need for nuclear weapons to destroy everything. Regular bombings can be every bit as devastating, and we have come a long way since 1945, so there are actually conventional bombs that rival nuclear weapons by now.
    For tactical purpose. You can't rival a 50 Mtons hydrogen bomb, it's just like an asteroid.
    Last edited by lowenz; 9th Mar 2022 at 19:53.

  20. #220
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    I very much doubt nuclear weapons would be used as part of regular warfare. If the US invaded Russia or something, that would be another story.
    Yes, my post bringing it up was only in the context of the US "mopping up" Russia. He's only insinuated using it if the West intervenes.

    I was also thinking it might not even be intentional, I mean premeditated, but could occur by an escalation that nobody wants but is hard to avert, the kind of thing there's potential for when you have nuclear powers going at it. (It's why India-Pakistan tensions always seem so fraught, even if it's over what seems like relatively small issues.)

    BTW, I'm already starting to see articles that the exit here if Putin does go off the rails is either civilian uprising-- hard to see now, there are polls saying the war is more popular in Russia than people would hope; I guess we've already seen evidence of that here. But give it a good number of years of asymmetric warfare and public opinion may turn against it like the US for Iraq and Afghanistan -- Or the military deposes him or the like.

    Both of those options sound chaotic & terrible though. Yes, here's hoping for cooler heads.

  21. #221
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Years? For the "shameless daughter" of Mother Russia?
    Putin is not that man. 1 or 2 months or *destruction* and I mean tabula rasa

  22. #222
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    Even if Putin himself is insane enough to press the button, can he even do that unilaterally?
    If not, I'd say there's a good chance he'll get Theon Greyjoy'd by his own generals.
    A few days ago I read an article saying that the code to use nuclear weapons in Russia is distributed in parts among three people, one of them being the President. If one of them does not agree, the weapons cannot be used. And some more people are actually required to set things in motion. About 10 people, the article said, are really required to start a nuclear strike from Russia. Hopefully, this is right (or there are even more people required to do it, further reducing the chance of the worst happening).

  23. #223
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    Even if the civilian leadership agreed to use them, it doesn't guarantee that the military will follow through:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

  24. #224
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    I'm not so worried about them actually being used so much as things getting dysfunctional colored by the nominal threat that they could be used ... Like you're already talking about, bureaucrats and generals conspiring on ways to marginalize Putin if he gets extreme ideas in his head & the chaos that that could unleash. The story that's leaking out is that he's backing himself into a corner, and if he has any talent at all it's a ruthless survival instinct.

    Edit: Oh another footnote on this I've been reading about... The 1994 Budapest Memorandum was the agreement where all signatories, including Russia, agreed to respect the territorial integrity of states giving up their nuclear weapons stockpile (Ukraine, Kazakhstan & Belarus) in return. A sad fact to realize is that there's no way in hell Russia would have invaded Ukraine if it still had its nuclear stockpile. Agreements & obligations evidently mean nothing; nukes mean you don't get colonized. Who's going to agree to give up nuclear weapons after something like this?
    Last edited by demagogue; 10th Mar 2022 at 02:30.

  25. #225
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicker View Post
    I don't think that the oligarchs who Putin shills for want to sail their mega yachts around a smoldering cinder, fighting mutant pirates. They won't let him nuke.
    They have no say in this. You have it backwards they are the pets not the puppet masters. Yours is a very common misconception about how things work (for want of a better word) in Russia.

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