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Thread: Thief Gold's new levels just suck

  1. #1
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2022
    Location: Portugal

    Thief Gold's new levels just suck

    I have to be honest, the levels that Looking Glass added to Thief Gold are kind of bad, they don't mesh well with the rest of the pack, it felt like a last minute addition to fill in more, while The Dark Project's missions were more than enough. Especially Thieves' Guild, I don't like it at all, it killed the pace of the previous levels, in my opinion. Very confusing layout and lots of rooms that don't make any sense, I would be fine without a Gold version. While the Assassin mission was the exact contrast, I loved following the assassins who tried to kill Garrett.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: thiefgold.com
    We don't like that kinda talk here

    Jokes aside, I agree about Thieves' Guild, it's one of the most onerous and frustrating levels I've ever played.

    The other two though....

    I loved Song of the Caverns, it had great dialogue, and above all the opera house as a whole was prodigious, a real milestone in Thief level design.

    I did enjoy Mage Towers (which btw, was supposed to be an original T1 mission), but I think it could have been improved. Far too much empty space that could have been put to better use. I might have turned part of the basement area into a magical crypt with puzzles\ traps, or strange creatures. Many areas of the level, including some of the Towers themselves, looked pretty drab, and could have used more decorative elements.

    I would have added fountains or statues in the garden areas as well. Maybe some more readables in the library too.

    Lots of wasted potential in the Mage Towers.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2011
    Location: Wild and Wooly West of Ireland
    Thieves Guild probably deserves it's own "Hate" thread at this rate.
    BTW you can be new to the community and like Thieves Guild.
    It's perfectly fine.
    No one will revoke your membership because you enjoy wandering about in labyrinthine sewers.
    We may poke fun at you, but it's all good natured fun.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Purgator View Post
    Thieves Guild probably deserves it's own "Hate" thread at this rate.
    Didn't we just do this?

    https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151780

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2011
    Thieves' Guild is a **** ****** **** ********* **** peepee.

  6. #6
    I don't mind the Gold levels. They're okay additions, imo. I'd rather have them than 'not' have them, and they can always be cheat-skipped.

    Thief II is where it's at for me, so only playing Thief Gold start-to-finish once or twice, and the random mission here or there, was fine
    Last edited by Darkness_Falls; 30th Aug 2022 at 04:20.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Jafaville New Zealand
    I take it you missed Little Big World then...

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2011
    Location: Wild and Wooly West of Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    Didn't we just do this?
    I was thinking more along the lines of a dedicated thread such as "Looking for the name of a Fan Mission? Ask here!"
    We could call it "Thieves Guild..HUH....Good God Y'all..What is it good for? Absolutely bugger all!"
    Overlords Fancy be damned!
    Edit: Don't get me started on Reuben.
    That's a feckin' sandwich!
    Lazy, lazy writing.
    Why not call him Twinkie or Hoho or whatever else you had stuffed in yer greasy gob when you were writing this dross!
    I'll go on the roof I will and you'll be sayin' German!
    Last edited by Purgator; 29th Jul 2022 at 06:48.

  9. #9
    FKA Buccura
    Registered: Mar 2014
    Location: 20X6
    I mean Song of the Caverns did give us one of my all time favorite Garrett lines

    "Heh, do people really pay money to see this stuff?"

    So I could never hate Gold

    But yeah I agree with the consensus Thief Guild is awful.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    I totally disagree with the OP. Song of the Caverns is my second favorite mission in the entire game. The Mage Towers is a very underrated and memorable mission, but has its flaws, especially in the elemental towers. Thieves Guild is very confusing in terms of layout, but challenging and with a super cool premise of breaking into two crime bosses' mansions.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2007
    Location: Krull Island, in the pub
    It's almost a (wannabe purist) fashion to say that all three additions to the OMs are bad. This is not that simple. Thieves' Guild may lack excitement and can be repetitive in many ways, but at the same time, it pictures what it wants to picture in a perfect way. These are bands of thieves settled in two manors and the connecting sewers - one may deal with it.

    As for the Mage Towers, I think that it is revolutionary new and with all the ambients and the different towers, it has a unique feel to it. Just see how different the atmosphere is throughout the different areas of the level. In the gardens, with the unique, a bit threatening ambients, one can feel that there is a lot about to happen. In the library, you will have an insight of the mages' thoughts and affairs. In the different towers you can also feel different atmospheres, and then always return to the 'common' world of the guards and servants, including the very uplifting journal of Captain Regalio.

    Do I need to sell Song of the Caverns to anyone? It's Thief 1/Gold at its best. The design, layout and textures of the Opera House are simply marvellous. The way you go upwards from the old hermit through the basement with the tools of the Opera performances and the affairs of the staff until the fancy marble halls of the opera house - it's just a simply amazing journey that makes the best of T1/Gold resources.

    This may be really a question of taste. But 20 years after, with less and less new fan missions per year, we should still appreciate every little bit of fun that Thief may offer.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    The hatred for Thieves Guild always strikes me as odd. The worst thing about the mission is how obtuse certain things are, with some of the objectives essentially being pixel-hunting for secrets. But then everyone loves Thief II, which has a bunch of missions that I find annoying in the same ways as Thieves Guild, since parts of them also double down on pressing your face against every surface and object trying to figure out what the game wants you to do.

    The dislike of Mages Tower I sort of get, but I've always loved that mission for being so different from the rest of the game in terms of the way you progress through it while being the only supernatural level that isn't focused on horror.

    Song Of The Caverns is one of my favorite missions in the series, period.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer View Post
    The hatred for Thieves Guild always strikes me as odd.
    Sheesh. Thieves' Guild is a maze. The purpose of a maze is to confuse you. Most people don't like being confused. As far as I know only masochists and maybe some autists like being confused.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    That logic doesnt hold up. The Sword, Haunted Cathedral and even Bonehoard have areas that are clearly maze like, but they are generally loved missions. Thieves Guild has very detailed maps to boot and most areas have multiple entries and exits. A maze is supposed to trick you not to find your way out. That is not what TG does.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2011
    You are comparing possibly the worst level ever to possibly the best levels ever. Please just stop. It's ok to have a different opinion than the majority. I don't like some of the highest rated games like Finding Ciri and Dad of Boy.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    Location: France
    Nooooo, you don't get it, those are good mazes! It's only Thieves Guild that was created out of spite to prevent some players from fully enjoying Thief Gold!

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer View Post
    The hatred for Thieves Guild always strikes me as odd. The worst thing about the mission is how obtuse certain things are, with some of the objectives essentially being pixel-hunting for secrets. But then everyone loves Thief II, which has a bunch of missions that I find annoying in the same ways as Thieves Guild, since parts of them also double down on pressing your face against every surface and object trying to figure out what the game wants you to do.
    Interesting point. I am not sure which Thief 2 missions you mean. Can you describe which parts of which are missions are pixel-hunts for secrets?

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    You have to be really autistic to care this much about video game levels where you feel like bringing it up all the time. You don't like certain missions? Skip.

    That being said, aside from Thieves' Guild the extra missions were solid and made that world richer in my view. One could argue that the pacing was too long because you had to travel to 4 different places instead of 2, but then again it also makes more sense to scatter all the talismans for maximum security. It's really the classical trope of collecting 4 powerful items and using them for something even more powerful. One complaint that I can get behind is adding mages to the lost city, it does take away a certain charm of loneliness and undiscovered territory.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    Interesting point. I am not sure which Thief 2 missions you mean. Can you describe which parts of which are missions are pixel-hunts for secrets?
    I guess I could go through the missions (I don't have the game memorized), but simply satisfying the loot objective in the very first mission was more annoying to me than anything in Thieves Guild the last time I did a T2 playthrough.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer View Post
    I guess I could go through the missions (I don't have the game memorized), but simply satisfying the loot objective in the very first mission was more annoying to me than anything in Thieves Guild the last time I did a T2 playthrough.
    Running Interference? That is surprising. I always felt that was a short and easy mission, including the loot goal on Expert.

  21. #21
    I dislike Thieves' Guild.

    I used to dislike Mage Towers, but it grew on me after a while and now it's one of my favourites.

    Song of the Caverns is OK. I like that it's a bit more light-hearted.

  22. #22
    New Member
    Registered: Apr 2015
    I like Thieves Guild way more than Undercover, which I consider to be the worst mission in the whole Thief franchise. I find Thieves Guild to be much harder than all the other OMs, I could only enjoy it fully after playing FMs for years but once I got the hang of it, it became one of the most memorable for me. As TMT is a decent mission and SOTC is arguably on the Top 3 or Top 5 best Thief missions, it's Thief Gold for me.

    Undercover on the other hand...I've never not skipped that mission. It's inconsistent and broken which is a pity because the concept of undercover infiltration - the hiding in plain sight - is unique in the Thief world and that makes it very interesting and exciting. But having to deal with Hammers getting alarmed on a far part of the temple for no reason at all whenever I enter a forbidden room that is several walls and rooms away from their sight? No thanks.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaYellow View Post
    I have to be honest, the levels that Looking Glass added to Thief Gold are kind of bad, they don't mesh well with the rest of the pack,
    You're lucky you only have to suffer through two or three missions.
    Imagine feeling this way for two entire official Thief games like I do: Thief 3 and Thief 2014

    I'll take the 'Gold" missions over T3 and T4 any day. Talk about not meshing well with the rest of the pack, lol
    Last edited by Darkness_Falls; 30th Aug 2022 at 04:22.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: 0x0x0
    Ahh, the gold missions! Song was my favorite of the bunch and quite likeable overall. Mage was in the middle and in keeping with the supernatural elements (no pun) of the whole game. Guild was a fine idea but the map was needlessly convoluted. Realistic perhaps but that's the problem with realism in games...it can get in the way of the fun.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Constantly losing tug o'war
    There are the missions themselves and there's their place in the story.

    A while ago I reinstalled and replayed TG (after a new hard drive installation). However, I skipped Thieves' Guild, partly because I remembered from last time that it had quite a few bland areas, but mainly because it felt like it was getting in the way of the main story. But that feeling depended on knowing the story. Assassins followed by the Sword just feels right, partly because the Ramirez job is what gets Garrett noticed by Constantine and Viktoria (as mentioned in the briefing).

    Maybe without that knowledge it would have felt fine to Thieves' Guild, but with hindsight it feels like it breaks the flow.

    The other two missions make logical sense as you'd expect the four Talismans to be in four different places, but I felt that The Mage Towers had too much empty space and could have been 25% smaller and while still feeling big.

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