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Thread: Yet Another Plea for Thief 2 Bumpmapping/Normalmapping

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2006

    Yet Another Plea for Thief 2 Bumpmapping/Normalmapping

    Well, the Thief 2 Code has been found. So, about some bumpmapping/normalmapping support?

    Please. (I would type it a hundred times, but it would be really annoying.)

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: thiefgold.com
    I remember inquiring about this a while back. Even with the code, is that even possible?

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Constantly losing tug o'war
    I think the lighting system would have to be completely re-written, because normal mapping cannot just be added. And objects are lit differently to terrain. There'd also be the matter who'd be updating the textures, or making new ones. Either a few people sacrificing lots of free time or lots of people who are all up to the task.

    In the unlikely event of a decent base material pack (equivalent in number to the original textures) being created, individual FM authors would then have to follow suit with their custom textures, otherwise they'd look flat and underwhelmng next to the 3D look of the surrounding surfaces. Or you'd get the opposite, with the odd 3D surface surrounded by flatness.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2006
    A bumpmapping mod would be backward compatible. Those missions that don't normal maps would just look the same. Though, I would help make some bumpmaps for the original Thief 2.

    There have several mods for Quake 1 and Quake 2, that have the benefit of bumpmapping, such as Darkplaces, and Bezerker's work. Although they were going for large effects, it still works:
    https://www.moddb.com/mods/berserker...images/bumpmap

    Spreading idea that bumpmapping isn't worth it because there isn't existing missions with bumpmapping--just makes more missions without bumpmaps.

    Let's breathe some life into Thief 2. The source is out there.

  5. #5
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    it's been a couple of years/releases since anything major was implemented, so it's quite safe to say that if something hasn't been added until now, then it's probably either not possible, or not worth doing.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    I thought I heard a few years ago that there was some sort of crude early code to do something like bump mapping in the engine but it wasn't finished. Hard to say if it would be worth finishing.

  7. #7
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    you can do some pretty neat stuff with mtls, but that is not bump mapping.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2006
    New Horizion, are you not the same "New Horizon" on the excellent, yet competing Darkmod team?
    https://www.thedarkmod.com/team/

    You might have forgotten me, but when I tried to donate textures to your project--I was admonished by your team because my bumpmapping was not deep enough--and yet, you write here in your struggle to determine if finishing the bumpmapping would be worth it?!!

    Voodoo74, The idea that--something isn't worth doing--just because something hasn't yet been implemented--is a weak argument. If it were, nothing would have been invented.

    Bump mapping will enhance Thief 2--without disturbing gameplay. A great number of other games have so been modernized. Thief 2, a game that gave birth to an entirely new play-style: stealth gameplay, is worthy of any reasonable effort to modernize it. There would still be backward comparability, so all of your favorite missions would still play, and if you choose--look exactly like they did. Yet, bumpmaps/normalmaps could be created to add a new layer of realism to the game we all cherish.

  9. #9
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    it's more of an observation - people have been posting ND requests around TTLG for the past decade, some have been granted, other ones not so much. iirc, the cell limit would be a good example, it has only been increased slightly despite all the requests, then someone pointed out the increased value is now really close to the limit of what 32bit can do. translation - to increase it any further, things would have to be switched to 64bit, and that is not something you want to tackle unless you don't have any other option.

    so, it's quite safe to say that if something hasn't been addressed in the last 5 years/releases, then it probably isn't happening. again, not an opinion, not an argument, just an observation.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by BrendaEM View Post
    --and yet, you write here in your struggle to determine if finishing the bumpmapping would be worth it?!!
    By 'worth it' I am referring to the coding efforts to 'finish' the bones of what existed in the Thief code or whether it would make more sense to start from scratch.

    Whatever is in there was no doubt experimental and written before any real standards had been set down. So yeah, in that sense, would it be worth a persons time to wrestle with old code that may or may not be decent...or should they just start over.

    Also, admonished might be a strong word. haha I don't remember the discussion about your textures though, sorry. Admittedly, we are sometimes known to be a picky group of grumps.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2013
    @BrendaEM so maybe you can work on implementing bump mapping? The benefits are obvious

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Ireland/Poland
    I agree - normal maps would add a lot of life to the visuals.

    Sadly nothing can happen, as long as NewDark is a closed (if not secret) source. It's been years since last update (v1.27), so it's getting less and less likely for Le Corbeau to get back onto that project and add any more goodies.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    yeah sorry i saw board on rtx after i posted,sorry all
    Last edited by downwinder; 1st Oct 2022 at 02:48.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Ireland/Poland
    There is a dedicated thread on the coming RTX Remix tools in this forum, but yeah - this might be the only chance to get improved graphics, of which bump/normal maps would be the least spectacular addition...

    But we need to wait until it's released first.

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