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Thread: The queen is dead!

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: the Sheeple Pen

    The queen is dead!

    So it finally happened. Queen Elizabeth II has passed away.

    I suppose it doesn't really affect my life as I'm not a huge fan of the Royal Family and she's not my queen anyway, but it's weird to think that THE queen is dead. Yeah there are other queens but they're not like proper queens surely (no offense to any royalists out there). Elizabeth has ruled since the Middle Ages or something - I bet she has always been the queen - and... now she no longer isn't! I'm not particularly sad or anything, this is just somewhat odd. Having said that, she seemed like a fairly good apple too for someone in such a high and privileged position.

    But what's going to happen now? The Brits will "mourn" for a couple of days and Liz Truss will be able to destroy the country while no one pays attention, but after that? They'll even have to change their national anthem! The Sex Pistols song is now obsolete! England's biggest tourist attraction is gone! It's an end of an era for sure. Could it be the end of the monarchy as well? This would be the perfect moment and I think the royal family should take this opportunity and retire to some nice and cosy castle somewhere, but I wonder if getting rid of the monarchy is even possible.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    I have had about the same relation to the Elizabeth II as I have to Kissinger -- every now and then I get reminded of them, go, "Oh, I guess they are still alive," and continue whatever I was doing. And I'm not generally one to spend much time thinking about dead celebrities, even if they were complete monsters in life. Hating a corpse is about as pointless as hating Mars or the square-cube law. That said, though, I will make an exception for Kissinger and maybe Bush jr and have a nice cold beer to enjoy or something.

    The concept or royalty itself I find obscene, though -- it's the 21st century and we're still clinging to the idea that some people are special because of their blood and should enjoy wealth and special privilege because of it.

    But anyway, I guess England now has one of them king Charleses again. So it goes.
    Last edited by Starker; 8th Sep 2022 at 17:22.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: thiefgold.com
    Don't know much about the Queen, but I'm a big fan of Prince King Charles, for his work in keeping traditional architecture alive

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: the Sheeple Pen
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    The concept or royalty itself I find obscene, though -- it's the 21st century and we're still clinging to the idea that some people are special because of their blood and should enjoy wealth and special privilege because of it.
    Yeah, it is indeed quite obscene, isn't it? I suppose it's just one of those traditions that are sort of nice to have around, for some people anyway. The British monarchy is an institution that has existed for centuries, and people in general don't seem to like anything to change, ever. I see this whole Royal Family business as one big LARP event really. The royals like to pretend that they're important and everyone follows some silly protocol when dealing with them, even though they have no real power. They probably remind the Brits of their glorious past or something. For everyone else they're just celebrities among others, ancient relics and strange curiosities in a modern world. I do wonder why everything that the royal family does is somehow newsworthy even in the Finnish media though.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by Azaran View Post
    Don't know much about the Queen, but I'm a big fan of Prince King Charles, for his work in keeping traditional architecture alive
    Plus he was always being mocked for advocating environmental issues. Guy was ahead of the curve.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomi View Post
    They'll even have to change their national anthem! The Sex Pistols song is now obsolete!
    The Sex Pistols were already obsolete in 1979, and this is from someone who loves punk (actually i think the more people actually know about punk the less they generally like the sex pistols). The Pistols were the manufactured "boy band" of punk. A New York Dolls knock-off band fabricated by Malcolm McLaren with all clothing made by his then-girlfriend's fashion label.

    That said. The song is in fact already "God Save the KING". Goes back to 1745 at the least, with hints at an earlier origin.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Save_the_King

    The lyrics as published in the Gentleman's Magazine in 1745 ran:

    God save great George our king,
    Long live our noble king,
    God save the king.
    Send him victorious,
    Happy and glorious,
    Long to reign over us,
    God save the king!
    Also: NOT the national anthem. The UK has no official anthem. God Save the King is played in official royal-related circumstances, but the choice of version depending on the monarch's gender is already built into the rules.
    Last edited by Cipheron; 8th Sep 2022 at 20:12.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    I'm not going to cry over it, but it is momentous. I admit I liked having her around. I know they are essentially figureheads, but she seemed like the last royal to actually fit the part. She truly did give up quite a bit to serve. Sure, it was a posh service, but it's still a form of cage. I wouldn't want to do it. I suppose it is the comfort of tradition, but also a personification of a nation, like placing your fidelity and loyalty in the figure of a person instead of a flag as symbol. But it is a comfort somehow. This tradition can speak and pull a nation together in times of trouble. It can remind a people who they are. As traditions go that isn't so bad.

    Perhaps I will feel Charles fits the role after a time. Long live King Charles, then.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2020
    Quote Originally Posted by Tocky View Post
    Long live King Charles, then.
    A toast to to King Charles ... III

    ---

    BTW, it starts:

    https://t.me/PatriotVoiceOfficial/27569

    The Queen died EXACTLY 1776 days after the first Q drop.

    Say what you want…

    I do NOT believe in coincidences.

    The scope of this operation is FAR more complex than we can even begin to imagine
    These guys (who also back Putin) are basically saying that Trump had the Queen murdered 1776 days after the first Q drop, to send a message, and they like what they're hearing.

    They're also saying since it was Sept 8, 9+8 = 17 = Q.

    Other sources, more often British ones, are playing the "she was one of the reptilian overlords" angle.

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/dy7d...n-elizabeth-ii
    Last edited by Cipheron; 9th Sep 2022 at 01:00.

  8. #8
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2021
    Location: The land of a Thousand lakes
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomi View Post
    I suppose it doesn't really affect my life as I'm not a huge fan of the Royal Family and she's not my queen anyway, but it's weird to think that THE queen is dead.
    I can completely agree with this, i am not British but Liz has been the queen always for what i know!

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cipheron View Post
    A toast to to King Charles ... III.
    Toasted.

    Everything is far more complex than Q can imagine. Tying a tie, or opening a cereal box, or just not drinking poison.

    A thing to think about is that she wasn't just a royal but a mother and grandmother and friend. As such there are people grieving her as simply that. I wish the nuts would choke on a nut and shut the fuck up for a day or two but nuts gotta nut, I reckon.

    I'm sure everyone has heard this but it humanizes her so well...

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Point Nemo
    I'm okay with an ornamental monarchy as a constant reminder of why the US exists as it does today. Not to mention all the Netflix shows it has inspired these past few years.

    On a side note: the tiktoks have been on fire with hatred towards the queen. Everyone but the monarchy is lining up to take a shot at the deceased queen especially indigenous people all over the world.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: the Sheeple Pen
    Apparently 90% of Earth's current population was born during Lizzie's reign. That's quite an achievement. Only two more years and she would have beaten Louis XIV's record of the longest serving monarch (72 years). The Sun King was only four years old when he was crowned though so that's almost like cheating...

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: UK
    Brits have a mixed relationship with the whole royalty thing - some are firm monarchists, others hate the institution passionately, and some are simply indifferent. We're not sheep blindly following and loving royalty, that's for sure. However, whatever an individual's stance, the Queen is largely thought of with much fondness and respect in the UK. Tocky - you summed it all up perfectly.

    I personally am not fussed over royalty, I pay little attention to them. However, I have always admired the Queen and recognise her dedication to service - she promised it long, long ago and has delivered on that promise. I feel she gracefully listened, learned and moved with the times as much as that gilded cage permitted. Other members of the royal family can do one and some have behaved appallingly, but the Queen - a steady rock.

    I feel strangely saddened by her death. She has always been there, and celebrating her platinum jubilee was much-needed light and fun in a time of covid and bleak world events. I don't know how I feel about Charles. He's always been there too, yet is some faraway person. For sure, it is definitely not going to be the same.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    The Smiths best album was also called the queen is dead, huh.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2019
    Location: Deepest Sussex, England
    Well Iím sad. I never considered myself a Royalist but I think the older I get, the more affected I get and from re-reading this post it sounds as though I am. Who knows?

    I was 9 when the Queen was crowned in 1953 and we all watched on TV, so sheís been there most of my life, like a foundation that you donít think too much about, solid. No doubt my parents were sad when her Dad died because heíd been on the throne during the war and resolutely stayed in London even after Buckingham Palace was bombed by the Luftwaffe, something her Mother famously commented on "I am glad we have been bombed. Now we can look the East End in the eye" (the East End of London took much bomb damage and she visited them). As Iím reminded by todayís media, the young Princess Elizabeth enlisted in the military in the war as soon as she was 18. My own Mother and most of her girlfriends did the same as soon as able, avoiding the need for parental approval.

    In 1953 not many in the lane where we lived had TVs but my Dad had made a little television (9 inch black and white screen) so when the Coronation was televised live (something never done before) my Mum invited neighbours in, sitting on rows of chairs in our little front room with the blinds drawn. There was a lot of TV commentary from Richard Dimbleby describing dignitaries arriving before the ceremony began such that an elderly lady in our front row stalls dozed off and on waking went out to the scullery where Mum was making tea for everyone and said how much sheíd enjoyed it (it hadnít started) and went home.

    On reflection Iím now thinking perhaps she thought it was all a bit boring, as did I.

    Every kid at school (and I think across the country) was given a Coronation mug (still got mine). Loads of stuff was aimed at kids, jigsaws, things you could make out of cardboard from the back of cereal boxes (the gold Coronation coach etc). It must have been a marketeerís dream. We even got a load of flags including triangular ones on a cotton string that we hung up somewhere, perhaps on the outside hedge. I think my uncle brought those. Most people had served in the war so patriotism was still very evident and I guess spilled over into demonstrably supporting the Monarchy.

    I donít know when things changed, perhaps in the 1960ís, but after a performance (at the cinema or theatre, or end of day when radio/TV broadcasts finished) they played the national anthem ďGod Save the QueenĒ. Only one verse, but as a youth I remember standing up at the cinema when they played it at the end. It was what you did. You didnít have to sing. Things were deferential (pre Rolling Stones etc.) Seems strange now. And ďGod Save the KingĒ seems even stranger, like something out of Shakespeare.

    How marketing depts will play things with King Charles, who knows? I canít imagine a ceramic manufacturer trying to sell x million King Charles coronation mugs to the Dept of Education or whoever to give to kids in the current climate, but then the country wasn't exactly rich back in Ď53 after the war. And Iím way out of touch with woke society. Iím somewhere in the middle masses. But if marketeers think they can navigate all that stuff and thereís money in it theyíll be out in force. Tea-towels and mugs always do well when any Royal events happen. My parents werenít Royalists but I still have and use a Silver Jubilee Tea Towel from 1977 that I inherited made from Irish linen (indestructible) and for a long time I had a very fine half-pint beer mug that my Dad gave me that I regularly used until one day like many of my treasured things I broke it.

    Over the years I think the Queen made some very regrettable decisions (but so have I) and I donít know the pressures, considerations and compromises involved. She also made some hugely noble gestures. I resist giving examples of either. Weíre all a product of our upbringing and fate and from this distance on balance I think she did a very good job.

    As correctly reported, she pledged "my whole life, whether it be short or long, will be devoted to your service." RIP faithful servant.






  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Mossad Time Machine
    Quote Originally Posted by mxleader View Post
    On a side note: the tiktoks have been on fire with hatred towards the queen. Everyone but the monarchy is lining up to take a shot at the deceased queen especially indigenous people all over the world.
    Yes, the usual array of baiters, grifters and idiots all seem mightily confused about the role of a queen in a constitutional monarchy, and are seeking to lay the blame for all the ills of colonialism and imperialism, most of which occurred before she was even born, at her feet.

    I wish I could say it was just ignorance and a lack of education, but at least one of them is a blue tick professor at a prestigious American university - hopefully not for much longer.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    they may have occurred before she was born but they certianly continued while she was queen for decades. Could she have done something to change, yes quite probably.
    Also how much is the state funeral going to cost eh?

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Mossad Time Machine
    Quote Originally Posted by PigLick View Post
    they may have occurred before she was born but they certianly continued while she was queen for decades. Could she have done something to change, yes quite probably.
    Actually, no, not really. She's not allowed to get involved in politics. We had a civil war some time ago to establish that principle. There would be a constitutional crisis if the monarch began expressing their opinions on government policies and wars and the like.

    Behind the scenes she can tell the Prime Minister what she thinks, although their conversations are private and the discussions undisclosed. That's about it though. There's nothing meaningful a queen can do to dictate what their government does. They're a symbolic figurehead. The monarch serves the people rather than the other way round.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Netherlands
    People are always like "monarchy is retarded, why should these people get all these privileges because they were born in a certain family". But as I see it, it's not that much of a privilege, it's a lifetime of service to the people and a life in the spotlight where everything you do or don't do is heavily scrutinized. And while you're wealthy and live in a castle, you're extremely limited in what you can do and say. I wouldn't want to trade with someone like Prince William (who is about my age) for the world.

    For what it's worth, Queen Elizabeth II took up the mantle of serving the people very well, with the utmost dedication until the end. There has also been an impressively low number of scandals concerning her, and the scandals that were there mostly concerned the people around her, like prince Andrew, Charles/Diana and Harry/Meghan and not the Queen herself. The Queen has been a beacon of stability for the UK and the commonwealth. Rest in peace.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: thiefgold.com
    Quote Originally Posted by SD View Post
    I wish I could say it was just ignorance and a lack of education, but at least one of them is a blue tick professor at a prestigious American university - hopefully not for much longer.
    I imagine most are within the 14-22 demographic, the all-wise age group who know everything about everything. I know I was omniscient when I was a teen too.

    My theory is that many older people are afraid of them (they can publicly ruin your reputation on Twitter et al after all), so they will echo their opinions publicly. Wouldn't want them to think you're against them by staying silent amirite?

    Plus with social media, any edgy nonsense that used to be laughed off, now goes viral and can become an accepted opinion worthy of debate

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Harvester View Post
    People are always like "monarchy is retarded, why should these people get all these privileges because they were born in a certain family". But as I see it, it's not that much of a privilege, it's a lifetime of service to the people and a life in the spotlight where everything you do or don't do is heavily scrutinized. And while you're wealthy and live in a castle, you're extremely limited in what you can do and say. I wouldn't want to trade with someone like Prince William (who is about my age) for the world.

    For what it's worth, Queen Elizabeth II took up the mantle of serving the people very well, with the utmost dedication until the end. There has also been an impressively low number of scandals concerning her, and the scandals that were there mostly concerned the people around her, like prince Andrew, Charles/Diana and Harry/Meghan and not the Queen herself. The Queen has been a beacon of stability for the UK and the commonwealth. Rest in peace.
    I don't know, I would call having, for example, 20 chefs at your beck and call quite a bit of an indicator that you have privilege. Not that she was exactly without any choice in the matter either, as her uncle's example shows. And let's not forget that a not insignificant part of the "service" was to put a clean face on a bloody empire, some of the atrocities still taking place during her rule: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/...olonial-crimes

    Yes, she was just a mere symbol, and a figurehead, but it's worth also keeping in mind what she was a symbol and a figurehead of. She may not have been a thief herself, but she was the queen of thieves and sat on the hoarded wealth robbed from subjugated people.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Mossad Time Machine
    I mentally check out when people start talking about ancestral responsibility. People are responsible for their own crimes, and theirs alone. And as the symbol and figurehead not just of Britain, but its Commonwealth of Nations, most of them former colonial possessions, she did as much as anyone to forge new relationships with those territories to whom we brought democracy and civilisation subjugation and terror.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Location: Edmonton
    Here in Canada Indigenous people are jailed at like seven times the rate of the general population and double are living in poverty; hell, some of the reserves don't even have potable water right now. And while I'm not personally responsible, no, I'm the benefactor of all the past laws and treaties that have resulted in Indigenous peoples' current lower standard of living. As for subjugation and terror, I'm sure you've heard of the multiple mass graves that've been uncovered at various residential schools across the country, and by all accounts there's more where they came from.
    Last edited by Aja; 9th Sep 2022 at 15:15.

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: thiefgold.com
    Quote Originally Posted by SD View Post
    I mentally check out when people start talking about ancestral responsibility. People are responsible for their own crimes
    It's an easy way to deflect from confronting the countless people & powers who are currently doing actual harm to society and the planet. The same people who style themselves moral/social crusaders, and scream like banshees over what (Current Scapegoat) posted online, have nothing to say when asked to stand up for real problems, or go after real monsters. They're ready to go to war when some western politician who can't do anything to them makes an offhand comment.

    But, e.g., the Taliban stoning women to death?



  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    It's funny how people want to pretend all the bad things happened in the distant past when there are still people alive who have experienced the bad things, not to speak of their children and grandchildren. Hell, Obama's grandfather was tortured by the Brits: https://www.vox.com/2016/4/22/114870...ndfather-kenya

    https://www.mid-day.com/news/world-n...cuments-117975

    [...]
    The Mau Mau rebellion is widely regarded as one of the worst episodes in British colonial history.

    As many as 150,000 suspected members of the resistance movement, which had its roots in the Kikuyu tribe, were detained without trial between 1952 and 1960.

    At least 12,000 were killed with thousands more left with deeply debilitating physical and mental injuries.
    Last edited by Starker; 9th Sep 2022 at 15:57.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    It's the difference between blame and responsibility. People alive today may not be to blame for the root causes and events but they are responsible for the persistent effects, especially if they continue to benefit from the inhumanity of their ancestors.

    I despise the notion of hereditary monarchy, especially since the founding member of every aristocratic family, since eternity, was almost invariably a murderous thug. But when it comes to QE2, I have a certain affection and compassion for her as a person. (Harvester expressed that well enough I don't need to revisit it.) And while she could have made a personal choice to reject the throne, someone would have sat in it. Elizabeth was a better choice than many.

    Her and the new King do indeed serve as a "constant reminder of why the US exists as it does today", setting an example of how people with responsibility (and privilege) should behave and the personal qualities they should reflect; erudition, awareness, good humour, humility, humanity and a sincere desire to provide public service.

    QE2 was not perfect and I suppose she could have been more strident in advocating for righting the wrongs of the Empire. But she was severely limited in what she could do about it so let's spread the blame and the responsibility around a bit.

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