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Thread: The Pursuance Of An Inscrutable Reciprocity Post-Contest Version (Sept. 14, 2022)

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: uʍouʞu∩

    The Pursuance Of An Inscrutable Reciprocity Post-Contest Version (Sept. 14, 2022)

    OK, everyone. This is a post-contest version of "The Pursuance Of An Inscrutable Reciprocity". Although the contest is over, I wanted to continue working on it.
    In this version there are quite a few differences to each of the missions. I'm hoping that the players will have a better experience with this version.

    Here's v.1.10 below...

    This version has the following fixes:

    1.) The issue when Mathew gets killed by the player.

    2.) Inventory carrying over from mission 3 to the next.

    3.) The French translation has been updated.

    >>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ujcahublgp...v.1.10.7z?dl=1 <<<

    EDIT: There was an error in the latest link, but now it's fixed.

    NOTICE:

    1.) Please read what exactly the objectives state.

    2.) I'm sure most of you already know this, but just in case. Please try not to make save/reload during a conversation.

    3.) Since some of these missions are a bit large, be sure to have hard-saves in case the quicksave gets corrupted. I've seen quicksaves not work correctly in missions that have quite a bit to them.
    Last edited by GORT; 4th Oct 2022 at 22:00. Reason: Removing an old link...

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: UK
    Woot! Excellent! Thank you and congratulations on the new release GORT. Definitely be replaying this one and trying to spot the differences

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Fantastic! The original version had a lot of creative ideas and was pleasantly challenging. I hope you kept the possibility to end the mission early for Garrett after a rather uneventful night. I loved that when I first played the mission.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    The conversation between the two men about the second gem is still rather unstable. When I first tried it with this new version, I had already got the objective "it seems that there's a mystery about the mages in this city" when I approached the right spot for the conversation, but when I was still two corners away, there was an objective change: "it looks like you won't be able to get that treasure you were gathering information on". I still went towards the conversation spot, but there was no one there, and nothing could be heard. However, the subtitles for Samson were displayed one after another. Mathew's lines were neither heard nor displayed as subtitles. Garrett then said his "let's follow that guy" line, but just as he did that, a grey-haired bearded noble ran into the building entrance where the conversation should have taken place, and the mission ended as a succerss. There was only one objective still displayed: "Nab at least 500 in loot." After pressing "Continue", though, there was the "mission" reserved for those pressing CTRL-ALT-SHIFT-END. I felt p*ssed off, especially since I dimly remembered that something like that had already happened with one of the previous versions of this campaign.

    Things did not really improve when I tried to do exactly the same in order to see whether the problem repeated. First time I tried again, everything worked, I could take the gem after the man stole it, and proceeded to mission 2. On subsequent tries from the same savegame as before, I got one repeat of the sequence leading to the CTRL-ALT-SHIFT-END accusation, and finally one where Garrett could indeed leave the city by the North gate and end the campaign in his bed.

    Maybe it's time to strip the first mission of all that fancy but unstable scripting and try more traditional methods, like having a conversation Garrett can observe but not break.

    By the way, I'm not impressed by mission 2. Non-functional "alarm" levers everywhere, turretts almost everywhere, but next to zero understandable hints as to what I was supposed to do. And several windows and grates where Garrett would get stuck. Finally, a Keeper standing above the arrow training room, who vanished into thin air after being shot, and several occasions where attacking someone with the sword did not make a sound. One noble did not even react in any way while he was standing before me, and being butchered with the sword.

    No thanks.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: uʍouʞu∩
    First thing I have to ask just to get some of the simple stuff out of the way.

    1.) What version of NewDark are you using?

    2.) Did you make a save during a conversation taking place? (This problem can happen in OMs as well.)

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: uʍouʞu∩
    Also:

    3.) What do you mean as to the alarm levers being non-functional, and where are they located?

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    1.) I use NewDark v1.27. It was made by applying T2Fix v1.27d to a Thief 2 v1.18 installation, and later updating that with T2Fix v1.27e. Selected components were:

    NewDark 1.27
    DromEd 1.27 with DromEd Basic Toolkit 1.14
    Common Script modules
    Dark Mod Manager
    Mods: Thief2 Fixed 1.3b, T2FMDML
    libmp3lame

    Every other mod was deselected.

    I did this kind of install/update for a german and an english version of Thief 2. There were no apparent differences when loading the same savegames. Would be the first time I had that anyway.


    2.) No, I know about the problem of saving during conversations, and don't do that.


    3.) There are several levers/switches marked with an "alarm" sign along corridor walls in the mansion, usually with a red light above them. When using these levers, no apparent change occurred. The light usually stayed off. When an alarm was sounding, turrets were active and cameras (Watchers) had detected Garrett, these three things remained active; when there was no alarm sound and no turret/camera active, using the levers also didn't do any change to that. I also never noticed any guards approaching after using a lever. There simply was no reaction to be seen when I was fiddling with the levers, thus I guess they were non-functional.
    Last edited by baeuchlein; 15th Sep 2022 at 22:45.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    downloading now congrats on release gort,i look very forward to your missions

    ok i had the issue where when following guy to get red crystal he gets to guy and just turns around and goes back to guy he had conversation with,other guy just stands there

    i don't think i did anything game breaking,i came up sewer to trigger conversation between 2 guys about red gem then ^

    i did not want to knock out guy and end mission with just loot so i will wait for a fix,other wise wow i love it so far the lady who says kevels name first time i just went right up to her for a hug through window and wow she sure gave me a kiss lol
    Last edited by downwinder; 16th Sep 2022 at 03:28. Reason: updated info

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by baeuchlein View Post
    3.) There are several levers/switches marked with an "alarm" sign along corridor walls in the mansion, usually with a red light above them. When using these levers, no apparent change occurred. The light usually stayed off. When an alarm was sounding, turrets were active and cameras (Watchers) had detected Garrett, these three things remained active; when there was no alarm sound and no turret/camera active, using the levers also didn't do any change to that. I also never noticed any guards approaching after using a lever. There simply was no reaction to be seen when I was fiddling with the levers, thus I guess they were non-functional.
    Didn't play it yet, but maybe levers only disable active alarm.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    As I already wrote in what you cited, when an alarm was sounding etc. etc., it stayed on when I used the levers.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: uʍouʞu∩
    Ah, I believe I know what's going on there. The alarm is making some of the AIs go to alert 3. There some that will also turn the alarm in that state. That's why you're having trouble turning them off. They're turning it back on.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Congratulations GORT on the update, spent a short time this morning so haven’t experienced anything Baeuchlein found (yet) but I did find Dewdrop nicely mutilated.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    I have identified two scenarios where our Red Ruby affair in mission 1 goes wrong. Both tested only on easiest difficulty level.

    1. If the player follows Mathew towards the place where he steals the gem, and then kills Mathew instead of knocking him out, the ruby is seen on Mathew's body, but the player can't take it. Not logical.

    2. If the player has amassed enough loot to fulfil the loot goal, inititates the talk between Samson and Mathew, alarms one of them directly or indirectly after the talk has ended, and then knocks out Mathew before he reaches the man with the ruby, the goal to find out more about the mages vanishes, and the goal to forget about that and head for the north gate also disappears. Thus, there's only the loot goal left, and since that is already checked off, the mission ends as a success. Unfortunately, the next mission is the "you pressed CTRL-ALT-SHIFT-END, and now you're hosed" one, which does not make any sense at all.
    Last edited by baeuchlein; 16th Sep 2022 at 17:24.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Alberta, Canada
    The stated goal is follow him and knock him out after for the ruby. killing him will NOT match that goal so the ruby will not be frobbable. the goal is knock him out post ruby pickup for all difficulties. With that said I never tested the level on the lowest diffuculty. EDIT: I also ghosted it so I never had to deal with alerted AI's
    Last edited by lordhern; 16th Sep 2022 at 18:31.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: uʍouʞu∩
    OK, I'll have to bring up some warnings here. I'll also put this in the first post.

    1.) Please read what exactly the objectives state.

    2.) I'm sure most of you already know this, but just in case. Please try not to make save/reload during a conversation.

    3.) Since some of these missions are a bit large, be sure to have hard-saves in case the quicksave gets corrupted. I've seen quicksaves not work correctly in missions that have quite a bit to them.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    I think I call it quits on this mission. I am not a domestic animal trained to follow objectives by letter, and if Doggy doesn't do that, completely illogical responses of the game are to be expected.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    gort i enjoyed both missions a lot,i redid first one and all was good

    i do like the idea of a mage story line

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: uʍouʞu∩
    Glad you're liking it so far, downwinder.

    Also, just to let everyone know. An update is being worked on to fix anymore bugs that may come to light. (ex: When someone kills Mathew in the 1st mission)

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2017
    Amazing set of missions. The puzzles are not crazily difficult to solve and I've truly enjoyed various scripted events. I've just started the third level and the rainy atmosphere immediately reminded me of Raid on Washout Central FM. Thanks for your hard work and effort.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Playing on hard difficulty and had seriously exceeded my loot requirement before going to get the red ruby and replayed the same way as I did in the original version, walked up to and into the porch west of where Mathew and his friend are, listened to the conversation, followed Mathew and then beat him black and blue with my blackjack before running off with my I’ll gotten gains.

    So not sure why Baeuchlein is having problems but guess if you go past the porch west of Mathew then even if he doesn’t appear to become alerted he actually does.

    But what I did experience is when I KO'd Mathew (having already achieved my goal objective) before collecting the red ruby I got the objective 'Well, it looks like you won't be able to get that treasure you were gathering information on. Might as well get what you've came for and leave by heading to the North entrance gate', but the moment I left the location where Mathew started his conversation with his friend was the mission finished and I was sent to the Keepers room where he told me off for mission skipping, but I hadn't mission skipped the mission, I played up to a point and the game finished naturally.

    So I replayed from a save as well as restarting the mission and going straight for Mathew before collecting any loot, and on both occasions I did not receive the 'Well, it looks like you won't be able to get that treasure you were gathering information on. Might as well get what you've came for and leave by heading to the North entrance gate' objective, either the mission immediately ended and sent me to the skipped mission Keeper, or did that once I had collected the require loot.

    If I'm not wrong if you kill or KO Mathew before you get the ruby your meant to get the objective 'Well, it looks like you won't be able to get that treasure you were gathering information on. Might as well get what you've came for and leave by heading to the North entrance gate', and when you get to the north gate your sent to a side mission where the only thing you can do is find your bedroom and go to bed.

    The Keeper 'skipped mission' cutscene should only appear if players Ctl-Alt-Shift-Del

    Edit 1: Further into mission and I Ctl-Alt-Shift-Del and guess what, next mission I am sent to is the 'bedroom mission' not the 'skip mission' one.

    Edit 2: One of the secrets does not work, a spice bag, so only 4 secrets available in mission 1
    Last edited by fortuni; 19th Sep 2022 at 04:57.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: UK
    Didn't experience any obvious problems in Mission 1 - gems puzzle / scripting worked fine .

    On returning to Mission 1 from Mission 2 (wondering if I'd missed some useful power ups to carry over to Mission 2) I did find an important, shaped item I'd missed and is needed to help solve a puzzle in Mission 2.. Finished Mission 2 (2895/3470 loot and 3/5 secrets GORTTUFF ) but have gone back and would appreciate a nudge with 2 of the optional Mages' crystal quests . I have Earth and Air but am stumped for what to do for Water and Fire . I don't remember these being part of the original mission - or at least not the level I played

    Just going to start "Urgent Get Away" mission - looking good!

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: uʍouʞu∩
    @ Sagittal

    Getting the Fire Gem is easier than you might think. Remember what the Fire Mage said. "The entrance to our guild may be the beginning to the path. But in the end, we must take our own narrow path. Would you please light the path to the end of our guild?" Be sure to have flares on hand.

    As for the Water Gem, this could be a bit tricky. Pay close attention to the pipes in the basement. Water can be your friend on this.

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: UK
    Thanks GORT - lordhern had told me much the same in a pm so I was able to finish the fm successfully . I had in fact lit the path already but was then confused when my efforts were then extinguished immediately - I thought there was something else I needed to do first (and the fact I had just used my last flare I decided to reload my save game).

    Finshed the 3rd mission now 7515/8205 loot, 6/9 secrets. Quite a ride, found the eye, got my large nugget & helped a drowned child. Had to guess 2 digits of a code - I wonder if I missed a clue? The child seemed to take a while with me to start her conversation so patience may be needed and she ignored my gift the first time but going through the whole sequence again it was fine. I am not good enough to ghost missions so was pleased in mission 3 there were just enough useful weapons to find.

    Many thanks for rereleasing and adding to the mission set - had a great few hours playing.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2009
    Location: Bay Area, California
    I really love the third mission! Very proud/surprised to find 9/9 secrets. However, I'm only at 6940 loot and have not "solved" the statues-on-the-roof puzzle. Does this result in obtaining the "large nugget" of which Sagittal spoke?

    Any hints as to how to unlock the statues would be most appreciated! Until then, I'll keep snuffling around like a truffle pig!

    Thanks!

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: uʍouʞu∩
    Have you helped all four mages in the second mission?

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