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Thread: RTX Remix for Ray-Tracing in Thief? :D

  1. #1
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2007

    RTX Remix for Ray-Tracing in Thief? :D

    Video of RTX Remix used to make up-scaled ray-tracing in Morrowind.

    I would love to see this type of effect in the Thief Series. Especially now since we already have excellent HD Texture Mods and amazing up-scaled cut scenes. I think such an effect would be perfect for Thief if the Dark Engine is compatible. Thief 3 Deadly Shadows might be the easiest one to implement since its using the Unreal 2 engine?

    Not sure how it would affect stealth/visibility game mechanics. I would suspect it would be purely cosmetic and would follow the original game lighting/shadows system. ex) I can imagine a scenario where you visually appear to be fully "lit up" because of a ray-traced light beam bouncing off a wall but your light gem visibility indicator is completely dark.

    Please discuss the possibilities.
    Thank you in advance.

  2. #2
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Easily Remaster Classic Games with NVIDIA RTX Remix
    (New Video footage and slightly more details information on the multiple steps used to apply RTX to older games, such as Morrowind)

  3. #3
    Registered: Nov 2013
    somehow i missed this. as i am currently modding Thief 3 render (moving to DX9, updating shaders etc) i am really interested in possibilities. as you have already observed modding T3 may be the easiest (older Thiefs material system is rather limited even using New Dark) but you need to remember its not really Unreal 2 engine - it was highly modified: it is using custom renderer (with per pixel lighting and volumetric shadows) as well as many custom file formats. what is good: current material system allows to pass many textures per material which could make rather easy to achieve PBR-like rendering. Generally a lot of work would be needed (in terms of creating textures, modifying materials or even objects) but final goal is sure worth it. As you already noticed impact on gameplay may be significant. currently in game ambient ilumination is used to correct rather unrealistic lighting propagation system (ex radiosity). i think that some game binary editing may be needed to fix this (and thia gonna be tough challenge)

  4. #4
    Registered: Jan 2018
    I was just about to come and gush about this. As a complete novice when it comes to modding I couldn't say how viable it is, but it does look extremely powerful.
    The thought of thief 3 or Deus Ex invisible War with realistic material properties is very tantalising, not to.mention the potential for improving the models within both games.

  5. #5
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Promising, but the card's cost is prohibitive, it will retail for $1600

  6. #6
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by Azaran View Post
    Promising, but the card's cost is prohibitive, it will retail for $1600
    What "the" card are you talking about? No card has been mentioned in this thread, nor in the linked videos.

  7. #7
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    this would be amazing for thief 1/g ,would be cool to see how a.i. does those gritty graphics also forest/maw area's

    i saw video very cool

  8. #8
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    What "the" card are you talking about? No card has been mentioned in this thread, nor in the linked videos.
    I believe Azaran is referring to the upcoming nvidia 4000 series graphics cards which are indeed crazy expensive MSRP.

    But it is my preliminary understanding is that ray-tracing is available on all "RTX" capable cards and possibly the upcoming Intel Arc graphics cards. The current nvidia 3000 and last gen 2000 series cards do include ray-tracing cores, hence RTX. The nvidia 1600 and 1000 series and lower do not include ray-tracing cores, hence GTX.

    For instance I am running an "older" RTX 2060 Ti and it can run Cyberpunk 2077 with ray-tracing fairly well (40-50 fps mostly max settings) with DLSS 2.0 enabled. I usually just turn off the ray-tracing but keep DLSS 2.0 enabled for the significant framerate boost (70-90 fps same mostly max settings). I tried to run Cyberpunk 2077 on a GTX 1660 Ti and it doesn't not allow for ray-tracing. I don't remember the framerate here, it was probably bad.

    * I think DLSS 3.0 is limited to the upcoming nvidia RTX 4000 series which seems like a much bigger improvement and framerate boost compared to DLSS 2.0 when using it with ray tracing.

    I'm curious how older Dark Engine games like Thief1,G,2, SS2, and the "unreal 2 engine" Thief 3S would run with potential RTX Remix mods and the HD Texture Mods. I'm currently running those games with their respective HD Texture mods and the now standard user upgrades (DarkMod etc.) on an actually old nvidia GTX 660m and they run smooth like butter still after all these years and no repaste.

    I suspect Unreal engine based games like Deus Ex and even Thi4f would be easier to implement RTX Remix just because the Dark Engine is so obscure. Morrowind used the Gamebryo engine which was also used by many more games than the Dark Engine.

    Article Links:

    DLSS 3 is exclusive to the RTX 40-series but older GPUs still benefit

    Nvidia RTX 40-series to deliver 'up to 2–3 times increase in ray tracing' performance

    Nvidia's new modding tools will add ray tracing to almost anything, even Morrowind

    Nvidia DLSS 3.0 only works on GeForce RTX 4000 GPUs

  9. #9
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: melon labneh
    Thi4f is DX10/11 though. RTX Remix seems to only be available for DirectX 8 and 9 games. With NewDark supporting D3D9 and seemingly bringing lots of stability improvements to the renderer, I have fairly high hopes for Thief and SS2 with RTX Remix.

    I hope that running games modded with RTX Remix doesn't require to log into some kind of NVIDIA portal.

  10. #10
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Slava Ukraini!
    I wonder how do they deal with light maps? I presume, light maps would have to be disabled, for the new lighting model to work. But is there a unified way of doing that? Or would some low-level render code changes/hooks be required? I know that vfig was doing that kind of magic for his project, but I don't think this is something Remix tools can easily automate.

    Also, I wonder how is the light gem calculations performed in (New)Dark engine. Does it take lightmaps into account, or simply line-of-sight checks with surrounding lights?

  11. #11
    Registered: Nov 2013
    its gonna only base on intercepted API calls so other techniques may be needed to achieve expected results (like editing maps for example). It would be important how original programmers implemented graphic pipeline (ex. if they used some hacks or unusual solutions) - thus will determine RTX modding possibilities
    @all Based on these articles you need RTX card to create mods but only VK raytracing compatibile cards to play these.

  12. #12
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2021
    In a way Thief would be the perfect candidate for ray tracing because light is such an integral part of the gameplay, but I think that makes it also much harder to use nvidias tool to accomplish this. I have a feeling that ray tracing could only really be done well inside newdark.

    But oddly enough I actually really like Thief's original look, especially Thief 1. These dark, highly compressed, low-res textures, combined with the pure white light and the low poly straight models and architecture... there is something surreal about it, but something that takes me to a different place. I don't know, maybe it's because I grew up with these graphics, but to me most modern games lost something when it comes to graphics. Maybe they look too real?

    Game remixes can be interesting though, and Thief with RT could definitely be interesting!. Just look at this piece of art they made out of the original Doom (no RT here though):

    It's intense, sounds and looks good, but still keeps an original atmosphere. Needless to say Doom is of course the polar opposite of Thief...

  13. #13
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Here we go!

    NVIDIA RTX Remix Runtime Open Source Available Now

    *Repaste from of an nvidia press release*

    RTX Remix is a revolutionary modding platform to remaster classic DirectX 8 and 9 games with path tracing, NVIDIA DLSS, AI-enhanced textures, and user-created assets.

    RTX Remix, part of the NVIDIA Studio suite of apps, is composed of two core components that work together to enable modders to remaster classic PC games: the RTX Remix creator toolkit, and a custom RTX Remix runtime.

    The RTX Remix creator toolkit, built on NVIDIA Omniverse and used to develop Portal with RTX, allows modders to assign new assets and lights within their remastered scene, and use AI tools to rebuild the look of any asset. The RTX Remix creator toolkit Early Access is coming soon.

    The RTX Remix runtime captures a game scene, and replaces assets at playback while injecting RTX technology, such as path tracing, DLSS 3 and Reflex into the game. Already, mod developers have been using the RTX Remix runtime from Portal With RTX to create experimental ray traced scenes in numerous classic games.

    To further empower the mod development community to extend Remix’s game compatibility and feature set, NVIDIA is releasing the RTX Remix runtime as open source on GitHub today.

    The RTX Remix runtime is open source with a permissive MIT license, and includes the following components:

    USD capture and replacement modules, which are responsible for capturing a game scene to USD, and replacing original game assets with modded game assets at runtime.
    Bridge, which translates the renderer from a x86 to a x64 instruction set. This component uncaps the memory available for rendering.
    Scene manager, which uses information coming through the D3D9 fixed function API to create a representation of the original scene, track game objects frame to frame, and set up the scene to be path traced.
    The core path tracer, which includes the rendering loop, the material handling, and the game specific rendering features (e.g., decals and particles). Please note, the various technologies (DLSS, NRD, RTXDI) that accelerate our path tracer and enable it to render in real time will continue to be available via their existing SDKs and licenses from the NVIDIA Developer portal.

    Open sourcing unlocks numerous possibilities to extend the feature set of the Remix runtime. A few examples of projects that advanced mod developers might tackle via source code access include:

    Making more of their favorite games compatible with Remix
    Modernizing the fluid simulation to render smoke and fire with realistic volumetrics
    Injecting custom post effects shaders in the runtime
    Adding animated lights (e.g., flickering fire, or lights that cycle through colors)
    Replacing animated character meshes
    Changing camera positions in games (e.g., turning a first person game into an isometric one)
    Incorporating virtual reality support into the renderer
    Implementing dynamic conditional replacements (e.g., add fog or change a light in response to a player’s position)

    [NVIDIA GeForce] Easily Remaster Classic Games with NVIDIA RTX Remix (185,613 views)

    There is ample opportunity to change how classic titles are played, and open source widens the possibilities beyond our imagination. We look forward to seeing what mod developers will build with source access.

    For PC gamers, an open source RTX Remix runtime will help broaden the variety of games with RTX mods and the types of mods themselves.

    How To Get Involved

    The RTX Remix runtime source code can be found on GitHub, and bugs can be reported here.

    Our main goal is to expand game compatibility and extend the features of Remix in collaboration with the community. In keeping with that aim, NVIDIA will accept pull requests on Github for code submissions from the community, provide feedback, and help advance code until it is mature enough to be merged into the official RTX Remix runtime.

    To further help the community with Remix, several Remix engineers have joined the community-led RTX Remix Showcase Discord server, are providing guidelines on compatibility, and responding to mod developers’ questions about RTX Remix. If you are looking to get started with your own Remix runtime open source project, head over to the Discord to find subject matter experts to collaborate with. We have also prepared some starter guides and documentation for mod developers as we continue to prepare the RTX Remix application.

    Modding is all about community, and providing an open source RTX Remix runtime will help empower mod developers to expand Remix compatibility to even more classic PC games. We look forward to seeing how creators usher in this new era of modding with RTX Remix.

  14. #14
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2007
    Yes,.. We all saw this �� I guess now it depends on the developer interest towards working on new update

  15. #15
    Registered: Jul 2002
    I tried this with NewDark, but to no avail. It simply won't start with Remix.

    Does NewDark by any chance use Pixel Shader 3.0? Because that isn't supported according to Nvidia.

  16. #16
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Pretty sure NewDark uses Pixel Shader None. The only blend operations supported by the material system are the old fixed-function ones.

  17. #17
    Registered: Jan 2014
    It would be cool to see and try.

  18. #18
    Registered: Oct 2003
    Location: Eagle, Idaho


    Has anyone tried Re-shade? They have a preset for Thief 3 and Thief 4. Supposedly, you can apply their image processor to any game.

  19. #19
    Registered: Apr 2021
    Quote Originally Posted by Ricebug View Post
    Has anyone tried Re-shade? They have a preset for Thief 3 and Thief 4. Supposedly, you can apply their image processor to any game.
    I have, when I was trying to add Eye Adaptation, but that doesn't look good.

    Regardless, reshade has a lot of shaders you could like if you're into that. I haven't tried any because my pc is a potato with cables protruding.

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