Thief Gold final playthrough appreciation thread

[Hit Deity]

I'm waiting patiently for each installment. Meanwhile, I am playing some FMs that I missed over the last decade or so.

[Shoshin]

First Floor

The level starts out simply enough, with a couple guards having a conversation. A second floor balcony provides a relatively easy way into the house. I get in and go to the ground floor. My usual way of looting is to take things level by level, so I explore the entire first floor initially. The front of the house is challenging mostly because of the flooring. Lots and lots of tile. Some carpeting to muffle sound, but plenty of noisy surfaces to navigate. The rooms are more or less laid out reasonably. Sitting rooms, dining rooms, a kitchen. The first floor garden is normal enough, though as you get further back the stream that wanders through the house/grounds and the maze like areas further back (with a single glowing mushroom whose light you can extinguish) starts to support the description of Constantine as "eccentric". There are a couple of locked doors, one of which is in a stairwell that leads downward from the first floor and can't be opened at all. The other is in the garden area.

Second Floor

Things start to get a little stranger here. Several traps exist, and the face motif is established. Lots of the stonework has a face carved into it, and I have to admit the first time I opened the door to reveal a big stone face behind it startled me a bit. I'm sure I was killed by several of the traps the first time through, until I learned to look out for the faces with their mouths open, and to approach things from the side instead of head on. Bedrooms up here mostly, with loot and a key. The key is near a note explaining that an gardener didn't know not to enter into the locked area in the garden, so I can go down there quickly and get some more loot, and the incriminating evidence on Constantine. Which apparently is that he pays his bills with raw gold. Not entirely sure why that is incriminating, but it is evocative and is laying the groundwork for Constantine being a man very interested in nature, along with all the gardens & plants present in his house. While I'm back down in the garden, it's time for a visit to the very whimsical area accessed via the tongue of yet another face sculpture.

Upper section and the Sword

Here we really get into the WTF portion. Upside down and sideways rooms, dirt and plant filled corridors that lead off from built areas that you know are on the upper floors of a mansion, but are also somehow underground? Did we pass through some kind of portal to another realm? Certainly the normal rules don't apply. This area is truly a maze, but keep going upwards and you'll eventually get to the Sword (surrounded by tiled floors and bright lights, hope you kept some water arrows and moss arrows handy). Parts that stick out to me from this section: The door that opens to a corridor floating in blackness, the perspective area where all the doors but one are too small for you to go through, the area where the corridor rotates around 360 degrees. And of course the floating Sword. We've seen magic already in the world of Thief in small amounts, traps mostly, but here we get a big glimpse into the fact that things are more complicated than they seem, and that Constantine is in some way very powerful. So get the sword and get out.

Intermission

Then we get a nice little movie. This one is a bit animated, unlike the other sketched cutscenes, and is a bit longer. Victoria tells Garrett it's time for him to receive his payment. And so we meet Constantine, and the story, such as it is, really gets started. The preceeding missions are a clever mix of introducing you to the world, getting you used to the tools and the game flow, and just plain entertaining and fun to play through (with the possible exception of the Thieves' Guild). So now you are truly Garrett, master thief, and you will need your skills going forward. One flaw that Garrett has is that he is blinded by his greed, so Constantine's mention of 100,000 is large enough that Garrett doesn't ask any more questions, though he really should. Like how long has Constantine been watching him, what is the relationship between Victoria and Constantine, why is this gem worth so very much money to Constantine? Garrett also doesn't notice the brandy drops sprouting plants after they spill. On the wood maybe, restoring the dead wood to life? The brandy does have "restorative properties" so I assume it's very similar to the healing potions Garrett has had access to for the entire game so far. Anyway, given that the takes from his previous jobs are all under 3,000, 100,000 is a very large sum indeed, so Garrett accepts the job. It's time to get the Eye.

[Hit Deity]

I always took the brandy as the Trickster's blood, or maybe at least Viktoria's blood and maybe the Trickster's, mixed.. Either way, not something I or Garrett should be drinking.

[downwinder]

the rat people are better then the ape beasts in my view

kinda like the cray beasts are better then bug beasts

and healing fruit "grapes" are better then rotten plumsies

[Shoshin]

Starting with The Sword, the main story of the game finally gets started. The missions previous to the Sword were more like training missions, introducing you to the world, the game mechanics, the enemies, the power ups, etc. Not training missions exactly, but fun excursions into the world, getting you used to how to play Thief so that when the story starts in earnest, you're ready to go.

So Constantine wants the Eye, located in a ruined part of the city, walled off after some catastrophe in the semi-distant past. Garrett mentions that the maps he has access to are around 50 years old. So this cataclysm, whatever it was, happened 50-ish years ago.

Given that, it's impressive that the lights still work! But they do, and you start the mission right near a power station with a helpful note. This is another monster-style mission, and 7 missions into the game, we're still being introduced to new enemies. There are the Craymen, with their weird clicky speech, and the enemies that initially freaked me out more than any others, the Hammer Apparitions. My first playthrough, I could hear the backwards speech of one of them, but I didn't see it for a very long time. So I just had that speech floating around, letting me know something was nearby, but not seeing it. I was quite tense initially, and even though I know how to defeat them fairly easily, they still freak me out a little bit. Some sound, and your imagination. That'll scare you more than anything. The Fire Shadow I think makes his final appearance in this level, as you do need at least two fire arrows to complete it. But I don't recall seeing a fire shadow in any other mission.

This mission is another maze, with lots of buildings and streets that lead nowhere, buildings tipped over, water for swimming (I missed that in Thief Deadly Shadows), and of course zombies, burricks, spiders, and Hammer Haunts. The haunts are probably the toughest enemies in the game, though Constantine's Sword is very helpful. In this level, you can see them in the Cathedral, and they appear in the house holding the Torc. Tough enemies once they are alerted to your presence, and they have that creepy speech about flames all around you and join us, join us now!

This level is also very maze-like, and easy to get lost in. You can sneak if you want, but you can also play explode the zombies. The best spot for that is by the bridge that raises and lowers. And then afterwards, if you are really paying attention, you can find the passageway to the house that holds the Torc. My first playthrough I had a very hard time finding it, and it wasn't until after I found the note describing where that house is located that I was able to locate it.

Then of course, you put the coins on the Watchman's Grave and make your way to the cathedral. Hey look, a grotto. I wonder what that's for? The Eye proves suitably creepy, and you can see the large number of Hammer Haunts you will eventually have to deal with. The Eye tells you what to do in the Keeper's Grotto, and the traps and the texts left behind in the abandoned library fill out a bit more of the Keepers' role in the city.

I liked this level a lot when I first played it. The tension and fear were very well done, and even though it was a maze, and parts were hard to find, it never felt as frustrating to me as the Thieves' Guild level did. The level feels like a ruined city section, overrun by the dead and other unsavory creatures. And of course, you didn't think you'd actually be able to get the Eye right away did you?

[Shoshin]

I always took the brandy as the Trickster's blood, or maybe at least Viktoria's blood and maybe the Trickster's, mixed.. Either way, not something I or Garrett should be drinking.

As I recall, Garrett takes the glass Constantine offers him, but I don't remember if he drinks it or not. But you're right, not something Garrett should be drinking.

[Kangra]

Garrett initially does not drink and holds the cup as he eyes Constantine warily. He downs it when he accepts the deal, probably as a show of good faith and to maybe reinforce to himself that he's doing it for sure.

One thing that I like about this level is that it's fairly smartly connected. You do kind of have to follow the maze to figure it out when looting the first time, but going back or getting to an area is relatively easy. Some of Fromsoft's later stuff (i.e. Souls games) have a similarity to it.

I also think this is a great mission for the enemy variety. Zombies & spiders & burricks!

[Shoshin]

Garrett initially does not drink and holds the cup as he eyes Constantine warily. He downs it when he accepts the deal, probably as a show of good faith and to maybe reinforce to himself that he's doing it for sure.

One thing that I like about this level is that it's fairly smartly connected. You do kind of have to follow the maze to figure it out when looting the first time, but going back or getting to an area is relatively easy. Some of Fromsoft's later stuff (i.e. Souls games) have a similarity to it.

I also think this is a great mission for the enemy variety. Zombies & spiders & burricks!

I think you're right about that. Maybe that's the difference between a level like The Thieves' Guild and The Haunted Cathedral. Not just connected, but connected in a way that flows better.

I also like the enemy variety in this level.

[SeriousToni]

It's been a very entertaining read so far. I feel a bit sad, but also nostalgic while reading your posts, knowing your initial intention. I really wish that you can finish your goals (however don't waste too much time concentrating on the 100% Loot objective please). Thanks a lot for sharing all this so far. I'm keen to read on!

[Shoshin]

It's been a very entertaining read so far. I feel a bit sad, but also nostalgic while reading your posts, knowing your initial intention. I really wish that you can finish your goals (however don't waste too much time concentrating on the 100% Loot objective please). Thanks a lot for sharing all this so far. I'm keen to read on!

Thanks, I'm glad you're enjoying reading this. I did 100% loot for the first 4 missions, and after that I abandoned that goal. I'm just about done with The Mage's Towers, I expect to finish up with it today.

[Shoshin]

The Grounds
You start the mission in a courtyard, with gates right in front of you. I do not recommend opening those gates, as they are in bad need of having their hinges oiled. I go through a side door, and am confronted with a hedge maze. There are several guards and mages wandering around all four of the hedge mazes, and it can be a bit tricky to figure out where they are in the maze. I try to knock out all of them before heading into the building, but with the patrols going from one maze section to another, invariably I miss some. There's also one portion of grass that clanks like a metal piece, and is a secret entrance to the basement levels. While wandering, you see the 4 towers at each corner, the central tower, and the bridges that connect the four corner towers to the central tower.

The Main Building
Each courtyard has an entrance into the center building, so I go in to start my looting. We seem to have a dining area, and storage facilities. Lots of guards and servants wandering around. One section has a stairway leading down to the dungeon area and the sewers, which I learn will be my way out. Lots of loot down there. There's also the Library, with Mages patrolling. There's a room full of statues, each with a message specifically for Garrett. I guess the Keepers aren't the only sect with prophesies. There's a note about a necromancer and his book, which sets up an encounter in The Metal Age, some nice texts giving flavor to the mages and their pursuits. A pair of glasses to steal, hidden doors, the barracks (which in no way seem large enough to hold all the guards that have been patrolling, unless the beds are communal). Most of the loot is in this part of the mission. Overall an enjoyable bit of thieving, and once you've accomplished all your tasks here it's time to go to the towers.

The Towers
The Water Tower is, as promised, flooded. It's a simple matter to swim up & grab the key to the Earth Tower.

The Earth Tower's entry way has a few moss arrows and a bit of bad poetry setting up what you're about to see once you go into the towers. Boulders floating through the air, conveniently giving you a lift if you want. There are moss arrows strewn about this level fairly liberally, which will come in handy for the last two towers. Ascend each level of the tower, avoiding/knocking out the patrolling mages. To get the Air key, there's a spot where you must use rope arrows to get around. Luckily they give you those as well. And they are re-usable. Get the Air key and get back out.

The Air Tower. Leave it to the Air Mages to build their tower out of marble. Luckily once you get it and take the floating boulders up to the main area there aren't many mages present. A few moss arrows come in handy, then there is a lot of waiting as you take the boulder elevators from place to place until you come to the timed puzzle for the chest containing the Fire key. I think this is also the first mission to add the gas arrow, which comes in handy in the next tower.

The Fire Tower. This one was the hardest tower for me, with all the clanky metal grating and crystals providing too much light. There are also metal plates that heat up and make crossing some areas more challenging. An abundance of water arrows helps, as they will instantly cool the plates allowing you to walk across them without having to wait for them to turn off on their own. I used my gas arrow on the first mage, and then my moss arrows throughout the rest of the level to take out the other mages, leaving me free to get the Treasure Key. Then I took the bridge over to the central tower.

The Central Tower
There's a mage waiting in the central marble staircase, so ascend slowly so as to not alert him. He'll start a patrol up and down the stairs, so I pick a spot in the shadows to wait for him and knock him out. Open the door to the room holding the Earth Talisman (and many decoys). Two of the mages are having a conversation about someone who has returned, and it's clear in retrospect that they are talking about the Trickster. The first time through, though, you have no idea what they're on about. Then they start to patrol, and if you watch, they genuflect in front of the real talisman, and ignore the others. There's also the bit of poetry about the eight old men up in a tower. Get the Talisman, and the remaining loot on the shelves, and head back to the sewer to exit the level.

Stray Thoughts
One nice touch for the mages' voices is the addition of an echo, making them sound slightly otherworldly. I think the mages show up again briefly in the Lost City, but it would have been nice for them to have more of a presence in the world. I can't remember, other than the dead necromancer in the city, do the mages show up in The Metal Age at all?

I always felt bad for the lone guard in the sewer, muttering about the cold and damp, when are they going to bring me my dinner? That's gotta be the worst posting to have.

I've played this game many times in the last 24 years, and this playthrough was the first time I actually got the Talisman by following the directions on the scroll, about "turn away from the hand with the sword, count seven and find your reward". Every other time I've done that, I'm off by one and get smacked in the face by the decoy. This time, though, I actually saw and counted the one decoy that isn't on the outside edge of the room, but is on a shelf in the middle. Once I counted that one, everything lined up. That's been something that has bothered me for years, that LGS would have made a mistake like that. Turns out they didn't, I just wasn't observant enough.

I quite liked this level, with the interconnected parts of it, the new enemies the Mages, the introduction of the gas arrow... Overall I think this is one of my top 5 favorite levels in Thief, and the story gets advanced as we exit with the Earth Talisman. 1 down, 3 to go!

[Galaer]

An abundance of water arrows helps, as they will instantly cool the plates allowing you to walk across them without having to wait for them to turn off on their own.

You can do that? Wow, I never knew about that.

[downwinder]

i hated how they changed lost city in gold version i like it the way it was in dark project

and i also had no idea water arrows worked on hot plates

[Shoshin]

i hated how they changed lost city in gold version i like it the way it was in dark project

and i also had no idea water arrows worked on hot plates

I've never played Thief prior to Thief Gold, so I don't know how they changed things. What differences are there in the Lost City besides only finding one Talisman instead of two?

[Hit Deity]

Here are two threads and one website that might be illuminating, granted IF the links still work in the ttlg threads. A lot around here do not. But, I have a feeling those will. Or at least current versions should still be around somewhere..

Just info..
https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124159

More info..
https://maximsamoylenko.medium.com/2...r-925dfd87051f
I like this quote about the two from here:
"Thief Gold is a different variant of the game that doesn’t cancel or supersede the original release — it exists alongside The Dark Project as an alternative take on the game’s story and gameplay."

And how to get the original back..
https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140679

Um, I haven't tried it, so I can't vouch for how well it works.

But, I can say that Original TDP is still worth playing. I prefer the old Lost City, the new Mages Tower, and I can leave out Thieves' Guild..

[downwinder]

would be cool to see a side by side comparison of thief dark project vs thief gold as in changes made, not counting new missions

[Shoshin]

"So this is the Lost City.... It's not lost no more!"

That quote makes me laugh, since this is the mission I personally get lost in more than any other, with the possible exception of The Thieves' Guild.

Generally, other than getting lost, I like this mission. I don't love it the way I love some other missions, like Assassins. It ranks probably in the middle for me. However, having just completed it, I find I don't have too much to say about it. It's underground, you're in the Precursor's city that was destroyed by earthquakes and eruptions many many years ago. There are the remains of buildings along old city streets, there's a group of dead Keepers who went down to hide the Fire Talisman, burricks everywhere, fire elementals, a statue of Cthulhu ("Creepy..."), Mages wandering about. So this post will mostly be my stray thoughts.

The fire elementals are, I feel, a nice touch. I kind of wish other missions had water, air and earth elementals in them, just to see what they would be like. They huff like a cross between a steam engine and a buffalo, when they get mad their vocalizations somehow also manage to sound mad, it's very well done. Hitting them with water arrows results in a very satisfying reverse sound as they discorporate, like they are shrinking down to nothingness. It's almost as satisfying as blowing up zombies with Holy water arrows. Kudos to the sound designer who did all their sounds.

I ended this mission with the most damage I've taken so far. It's the combination of narrow walkways, high drops, fire elementals everywhere, burricks, mages.... Speaking of mages, did you know that Air Mages are immune to gas arrows? Yet another thing I've learned for the first time after 24 years of playing this game. Pissed me off, cause gas arrows are rare and expensive, and I wasted one on an air mage.

There's some nice background on the Precursors to be found in the scrolls laying around. Echos of the fall of Rome in there, with the gladiators and Colosseum references, and the decadent ruler. Overall though, not terribly relevant to the story at hand. Maybe more relevant to The Metal Age, especially if you bought the tip about gathering masks for Gervasius.

Overall an enjoyable excursion into the underworld, and adds to the lore around The City that Garrett lives in. People living above the ruins of an ancient civilization that they don't even know is there. How can the Keepers keep this place a secret indeed.

2 Talismans down, 2 to go. Up next is Song of the Caverns, which I remember as being the best of the Thief Gold missions, and overall an excellent mission in general.

[vfig]

Speaking of mages, did you know that Air Mages are immune to gas arrows? Yet another thing I've learned for the first time after 24 years of playing this game. Pissed me off, cause gas arrows are rare and expensive, and I wasted one on an air mage.

and fire mages are immune to fire arrows!

must suck to have water mages around though, those guys are immune to showers

[Hit Deity]

and fire mages are immune to fire arrows!

Can you imagine all his fellow mages if he weren't.. They'd be snickering behind his back, "He's a fire mage and can't resist fire!!"

must suck to have water mages around though, those guys are immune to showers

Yeah... not all schools of magic are as cool as fire.

[Shoshin]

I always play non-lethal with the human opponents, so I never noticed that the fire mages were impervious to the fire arrows. Makes sense though. And I would guess the Water mages can't drown? Not that it matters, unless you get one to follow you into the Water Tower. And Earth Mages? Impervious to moss arrows? Lol.

[Shoshin]

The Caverns
I like how this mission starts you on the streets and has you find your way into the caverns rather than starting you there already. It's a small thing, but a nice touch. Once in the caverns, you find your friend Giry, or what's left of him anyway. Along with a note about how he will be leaving in the morning because there are too many spiders. Terrible way to go, wrapped up and eaten by spiders. After making your way through the caverns to the shrine, dispatching a few craymen along the way, of course you discover that someone has gotten there first and taken the Water Talisman. Fortunately, Raoul is there to tell you where to go. In song. For fun, I took the right at the sewer just to see. Hey look, it's the front of the Opera House. You can go in that way if you want, but it's all tiles and very noisy. Left at the sewer it is.

The Basement
Looks like most of the basement is storage for props and backdrops, and the occasional guard's practice dummy. I turned a corner to hide and saw one of them out of the corner of my eye. Scared the crap out of me the first time. Interestingly, the Opera House apparently has a small armory? I shall rob it. I was also mildly amused by the wine cellar with these big storage areas that look like they are for holding caskets, but instead have tiny bottles in them. A few secret passageways, mostly in fireplaces. Plenty of guards patrolling but since the flooring isn't tile, it's easy to sneak up behind them and take them down. Non-lethally.

The Opera House
Once in the opera house proper, there's again plenty of guards and also plenty of loot. The layout makes sense, with the stage in the middle and viewing rooms on the floors above. A backstage area, the ticket counter, and of course Lady Valarus' quarters. Lots and lots of tile, luckily also with carpet in spots. It becomes a pretty standard looting mission, with lots of guards and non-combatants around. Plenty of opportunities for sneaking, and this level definitely rewards patience and punishes being in a hurry. Well lit, lots of guard patrols. I enjoyed the two patrons arguing about Mr. Cribs and his operas about overcoming nature. I can only imagine how bad the operas themselves must be, based on the little snippet being rehearsed in Mr. Cribs' room. I steal the flute, and then knock out the players so I don't have to hear any more of it. "But wait!" There's a secret passage up to Lady Valarus's locked room where the Water Talisman is. Get the talisman, and get out (once you also get the loot, rob the ticket office, and get the flute).

Stray thoughts
Overall a very solid mission. The Opera House feels like a real place, the Caverns section has some light monster action and light comedy ("Up up the rope you go, why do you move so slooow!"), the Water Talisman is locked away with many guards. I think this is a decently hard level, mostly due to the large amount of tiling you have to traverse and the overlapping guard patrols. And the sheer number of guards. This mission is in the top half of my rankings, possibly higher. Once I finish the game I'll rank the missions.

3 down, 1 to go. Time to pretend to be an acolyte!

[Kangra]

The Grounds
I've played this game many times in the last 24 years, and this playthrough was the first time I actually got the Talisman by following the directions on the scroll, about "turn away from the hand with the sword, count seven and find your reward". Every other time I've done that, I'm off by one and get smacked in the face by the decoy. This time, though, I actually saw and counted the one decoy that isn't on the outside edge of the room, but is on a shelf in the middle. Once I counted that one, everything lined up. That's been something that has bothered me for years, that LGS would have made a mistake like that. Turns out they didn't, I just wasn't observant enough.

That makes sense, though it's still kind of confusing. Watching the mages as they go was always the easier option.

I don't know if the Hand Mages per se are in TMA. There are for sure a few people that perform magic, but they seem more like magically trained Mechanists (there are several in Angelwatch). There's a guy at Gervasius's place (in the closet with a Servant) who is either of that kind or might be ex-Hand, as he will attack you with magic. There may have been mention of someone doing business with them as well.


I'm not a huge fun of the Opera House as a mission, but it is one of the most well-designed places in the game. It feels authentically real, outside of the low number of people present.

[Shoshin]

After playing this one again, I've come to the conclusion that I really like it. It's funny, cause it didn't stand out much in my memory, but after playing it it feels very Thief-y, if you know what I mean. Infiltrate a building with forged credentials? Steal a bunch of their stuff out from under their noses? Count me in!

One nice switch up is that, like the one guard from Lord Bafford's, the patrols do not immediately treat you as enemy. Unless, you know, you're spotted going into a room marked with an upside down red hammer, or you draw a weapon, or they notice something missing, or find an unconscious body. I don't think there's any other thing that sets them off, and I was impressed when they noticed I'd stolen something, likely the wine bottles off the dining table downstairs. I can't think of anything else that would have set them off, as I didn't go into any of the marked rooms and hadn't knocked anyone out or had a weapon drawn. Is there any other circumstances that would cause the Hammers to go on alert and set off the alarm? I'll cop to restarting the mission after that, as I didn't want to have to deal with all the Hammers in a state of alert for the rest of the level. Incidentally, on this mission I did get 100% of the loot, almost without trying. Nothing was especially hidden so as long as you went everywhere, you can pretty easily find all the loot.

The temple is another pretty nicely designed space. The crypts beneath it are a bit less organized, making them feel like a leftover from an older building that was maybe torn down and the temple built over the top? Even in the crypts, the Hammers let you wander around, which is nice as it allows me to come up behind them and knock them out. All the switches are in decently easy to find places, though I always struggle with the one in the garden. I keep expecting it to be in the corner behind a tree, rather than in the middle. But again, once you've found it you're good to go. Getting all five switches in the allotted time was difficult for me the first several times I played this mission, but this time it was no problem.

So I flip all five switches and go and stand at the bridge, which is still retracted. Why is it still retracted? Then I notice the Hammer in the tile at my feet, and remember the same Hammer in tile outside the Priest's room, with a hammer inside also in front of another Hammer in tile. Hmm, could that be a clue the game is trying to hit me over the head with? So I get the hammer, then the bridge extends. Every time I forget this part. Every time I have to resist the urge to look at a walkthrough. You'd think I would remember, but apparently not. Anyway, the bridge extends and I go over, flip the switch to open the cage, and go over to the Air Talisman, with the scroll containing the Wallbuilder prayer. I'm all ready to read it, looking at the Talisman. And what happens? I go to use the scroll and instead I try to grab the Talisman. Cause it's highlighted apparently, so the Use key, being context sensitive, has decided I was trying to get the Talisman rather than reading the prayer out loud. Good thing I've knocked all the Hammers out by this point because the bloody alarm goes off. But that's my last task, I've gotten all the loot and the First Hammer, so I am out of there.

That's 4 out of 4. Up next I return to the cathedral to fetch the Eye. I am a little wary to play this mission again. The first time I did, I loved it. Tense, scary, the Cathedral grounds are huge... But it lost a little bit of its charm after multiple playthroughs. So we'll see. I'll be playing it next.