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Thread: How many FMs were released in 2022?

  1. #26
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2012
    Location: France
    +1 it is!

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by lordhern View Post
    Hehe - I see what you did there

    @ciscokidd73 - look here > https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152016
    thank you

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2020
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by zajazd View Post
    I gave TDM another chance today, it could be 5th or so over many years... I just can't enjoy it - it still feels janky, blackjacking feels off, lockpicking is annoying, you can't carry blackjacked NPCs on your back but instead have to pull them by their arms or legs - good luck doing that in tight spaces. Thanks but no thanks, this was the last time for me.
    Sadly I have the same problem, though I only tried it out a few days ago for the first time after seeing the yearly FM stats. The setting and graphics of TDM look so nice, but the gameplay and how it feels is just weird for me. The lockpicking as you said aswell I find super annoying. In Thief the lockpicking is the side thing you do, the faster it goes the better, but in TDM you have to concentrate on it so much. I also had problems to find out how certain things work even though I played the training mission and tried to read all the notes. For example pulling a body, itīs annoying, the body slips away so easily and I had to try it several times. Also how loud the main character is. Even if I walk very slowly and crouch, he still will make sounds on metal plates. But the use of moss arrows is hard aswell, nothing compared to thief. Probably the worst for me were the NPC. I tried a fanmission and the NPC would say "step aside" and then I step aside but he attacks me. I was like "wut?" Or a random beggar "do you have coins for the poor?", then he suddenly runs to the guards screaming for help.. again Iīm like "what?!"... . It just feels not fluent and good like thief does. Iīm really sad about it, I really really wanted to like it since I know how much work it must have cost the people to create sth. monumental as TDM

  4. #29
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Sharon, PA, USA, Earth
    - Set lockpicking to novice/beginner in the settings and its super easy.
    - You dont have to drag people. Press use once you drag it and you carry the body just like in Thief.
    - Surfaces are louder yes, but that is probably more realistic. Thief is probably the game that is skewed unrealistically in the stealth favor more than it should be.
    - I've played TDM for many years now and never had the NPC situations you're referring to. And please, Thief is anything but stellar in the NPC department. Probably it's biggest flaw if you ask me.

    I think the biggest problem is players except TDM to be "just like Thief". Well, it isn't. It's a different engine. It's actually a different game. It's supposed to capture the atmosphere from Thief, but still be its own thing. And in that regard I think it hits the nail on the head.

  5. #30
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2020
    Location: Germany
    I see, thanks for the info. But why isn't this explained in the training tutorial? Or is it and i just missed it? Though i tried to read everything. Maybe it was just too much at once. I also had problems with readables, like opening them. Its also never said that you can just change the difficulty. It's not that it has to be like thief or i expect it to be, its just that it feels so strange to play, like not fluent at all. Hard to describe. I think the mission in which this happened was Iris. I would go to a beggar for example. He says "coins for the poor please?", I pass him without doing anything and he suddenly looks for me saying sth. Like "stop hiding" and when he finds me he runs away calling for help. Other npcs did that too.
    I also dont find it realistic that it makes so much sound on metal. In real life if you slowly crouch over metal it doesnt make a sound either. Thief is more realistic in that regard.

  6. #31
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Personally I think there TDM has couple major flaws:

    1) Some elements are still really janky. For example crates floating in water - if you try to pick them up they can randomly explode into air. Frob highlight is barely visible most of the time. Or frob helper option to be visible all the time and after some time it just vanish.

    2) Overcomplicated and weird solutions. Here overcomplicated solution is mentioned putting body on your back and extinguishing candles. Both requires frobbing them to pick them up and then you need to use extra button to put body on back/exstinguish candle. And for candle you need to remember to drop it. This becomes annoying very quickly. Why can't I just do these actions by simply frobbing them? I don't want to drag body/pick up candle.

    Weird solution is using map doesn't stop gameplay. It may be realistic, but at the same time how many players will play mission with map on their face? Also mentioned lockpicking on novice difficulty is weird. Yes, it's easy, but also super long. Higher difficulty only repeats sequence for lockpick when you fail clicking/releasing button in time. Novice requires holding button through 4 sequences for just one lockpick. In other words it's 4 times longer than on higher difficulty. And if you stop lockpicking at the last sequence of lockpick, it resets and you need to repeat all 4 sequences. So this is a classic case of long lockpicking, which can take couple of minutes for every lock in the game. Have fun.

    3) Sound design. This is the biggest problem for me. While ambient sound being sometimes too loud and it's impossible to lower it with ambient sound setting, the same thing is happening in Thief FMs sometimes. The main problem is that every other sound is too quiet. Footsteps made by our thief are too quiet. When I jump on metal I expect it to be loud. And it's loud for enemies, but not for me, player. Difference between loudness of different surfaces (metal, marble, stone) is too small, so it's very hard to judge on what surface I can drop and on what I shouldn't, because enemy far away will hear it. Of course you can change sensitivity of enemies, so at worst they will 1st alert when you are jumping on metal behind them. But these quiet footsteps loud only for enemies are just annoying.

    Even bigger problem are sounds made by enemies. They are too quiet. I can barely hear them when I'm very close. OK, that's realistic. But when they go into 3-5th alert and they start shouting and I can still barely hear them when they are close to me, that's not realistic at all. Shouting should be loud. Increasing volume of sounds made by enemies twice would elevate not only gameplay, but also atmosphere of many missions. Because right now atmosphere is based on graphic and ambient sound only. Also these quiet reactions ar main reason why we, ghosters, use tool to display stealth score. This isn't needed in Thief, because most of the time it's easy to determine alert or not. In TDM most of the time it's impossible, so we need to use tool that breaks immersion. And that's really annoying.

    That's the reasons why I don't like this game. Of course there are better or worse FMs, but I would enjoy them all so much more if I wouldn't need to constantly fight with mechanics of this game. Despite immense effort of creators of this game and support of their community, for me it feels like it's not a full game, but rather a beta version. Maybe all these problems will be fixed in the future and game will be enjoyable for me. I hope.

  7. #32
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by klatremus View Post
    - Set lockpicking to novice/beginner in the settings and its super easy.
    Set lockpicking to Auto under the gameplay / difficulty section of the menu and it behaves similarly to Thief.

    You can set the 'auto' picking routine to only repeat twice instead of 4 times. I'm not sure why it's setup to repeat 4 times because yeah, that is pretty annoying but anyway. You can use CTRL ALT ~ to bring down the console and type tmd_lp_autopick_attempts 1 then hit enter. Now when set to auto it will only repeat the lockpicking cycle once after the first cycle instead of 3 times after the first cycle. Unfortunately it's not setup to allow only playing the cycle once. Not sure why. I would request having it default to only playing the cycle once on auto because it's really punishing the player to sit through a bunch of cycles just because they prefer not to use the mini-game version.
    Last edited by New Horizon; 10th Jan 2023 at 13:24.

  8. #33
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by Samantha1 View Post
    I think the mission in which this happened was Iris. I would go to a beggar for example. He says "coins for the poor please?", I pass him without doing anything and he suddenly looks for me saying sth. Like "stop hiding" and when he finds me he runs away calling for help. Other npcs did that too.
    I also dont find it realistic that it makes so much sound on metal. In real life if you slowly crouch over metal it doesnt make a sound either. Thief is more realistic in that regard.
    Sorry to hear the mission turned you off TDM. The setup with AI in Iris is not typical of a TDM mission. The beggars are typically neutral to the player - not sure if you passed them brandishing a weapon such as the blackjack? You can holster your weapon using tilde.

    If you’re willing to give the mod another chance I agree the default acuity of AI in TDM is too high - though many players seem to like it - thankfully these are also configurable in the difficulty settings and I recommend lowering the ai vision and hearing to “forgiving” in addition to setting the lock picking to training.

    Perhaps Iris is not the place to start either. I know marbleman recommends “full moon fever” for new players.

  9. #34
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2020
    Location: Germany
    I had no idea you can even turn down the acuity of AI in TDM... I think my biggest problem with the mod was that I couldnīt find any explanation of things. I tried looking in the forum, but itīs not easy when you donīt know where to start looking in the first place. After the training mission didnīt really help, I decided to just start with an FM and finding out stuff by trial and error, which didnīt work either as you can see. But Iīd gladly give TDM another chance. Iīll pm you

    Edit: Oh, It seems I cant send you a pm...

  10. #35
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Samantha1 View Post
    Edit: Oh, It seems I cant send you a pm...
    Yeah unfortunately it appears I don’t have permission to use the private messaging system. Feel free to email me (which I have ok’d in my profile) or pm me on the TDM forum!

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