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Thread: FMSel has stopped working - WINDOWS 11

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.

    FMSel has stopped working - WINDOWS 11

    PSA - Windows 11 users - as of January 2024, it seems that FMSel has stopped working. See below for original post and full details. If you're affected, the fix is to uncomment no_unload_fmsel in cam_mod.ini.

    Original post:

    So out of nowhere two days ago, FMSel has stopped correctly loading the Thief 2 or Dromed apps (Windows 11). Anyone got any ideas what I can try? Can Angelloader be used for Dromed? I've never used it. Currently my only other option is to manually overwrite a different Thief install for each mission. Would rather avoid that if I can.

    Here's what's happening:

    With fm activated in cam_mod.ini, FMSel opens and shows me the list of missions. The app itself seems to run fine. I've also tried running as administrator, and added it as an exception in my antivirus, and tried temporarily disabling antivirus and malware scanner and running it. No difference in behaviour. As soon as I select a mission and click Edit FM (in Dromed) or Play FM (in Thief), FMSel instantly closes. No errors, no background processes left running, no clues at all. When doing this, the log is painfully short. It's as if FMSel simply thinks I clicked Quit.

    Code:
    : PID: 9604
    : CPU: arch=x86-64 , fam=586 , cpus=24
    : SIMD: SSE=3 , 3DNow=0 , MMX=1
    : OS Version: 6.2.9200 
    : Desktop resolution: 1920 x 1080
    : Virtual desktop resolution: 3840 x 1080
    : -----------------------------------------------------------
    : Command line: "C:\Thief2\Thief2.exe" 
    : -----------------------------------------------------------
    This is occurring for all Thief installs on the computer, T1 and 2. Nothing has changed on the PC, it's just stopped working out of the blue.

    If I comment out fm in cam_mod.ini, Thief or Dromed load straight away and work fine, absolutely normal functionality. But of course they're then not using the correct folder structure. So something is going wrong at the point of FMSel trying to open Dromed.exe or Thief2.exe itself. I have no idea how to troubleshoot that.
    Last edited by nicked; 24th Jan 2024 at 01:39.

  2. #2
    New Member
    Registered: Feb 2021
    Location: Newy, 'Straya, Pale Blue Dot
    Interesting, this happened to me the other day. I tried a full reinstall and just tried to load through FMSel but still nothing however I can get the game to run normally. I made the move to AngelLoader and it works but have no idea about Dromed. I wonder if there was an update on Windows that caused this.

    Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Yeah I'm inclined to think Windows has changed something, since it's globally affecting all Thief installs.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by nicked View Post
    So something is going wrong at the point of FMSel trying to open Dromed.exe or Thief2.exe itself. I have no idea how to troubleshoot that.
    irrelevant technical detail, but fmsel does not launch dromed.exe or thief.exe itself; instead they launch and then load fmsel.dll, wait for it to do its thing, and then unload fmsel.dll and continue running the game/editor. so something is happening here within the newdark exe that is causing it to abort. it sounds like a crash—the absence of a crash dump suggests maybe not; though it is possible that newdark runs fmsel before the crash-handling machinery is set up.

    it is odd that it works with angelloader and not fmsel, because angelloader is using the same api (and its own dll) for communicating to thief/dromed which fm to run.

    one thing you could try is enabling no_unload_fmsel in cam_mod.ini to see if that makes a difference.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    OK well I appear to have resolved the issue by uncommenting no_unload_fmsel in cam_mod.ini - thanks vfig.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    Sly question: Do the .EXEs load the DLLs, or do they tell Windows to load the DLLs? If the latter is the case, we can smell already that a Windows change/update might have happened there and cause this problem.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by baeuchlein View Post
    Sly question: Do the .EXEs load the DLLs, or do they tell Windows to load the DLLs? If the latter is the case, we can smell already that a Windows change/update might have happened there and cause this problem.
    i suppose you can say they ask windows to load the dlls. but youre barking up the wrong tree. dll loading and unloading is a deep fundamental feature of the operating system and isnt going to be changed suddenly by a windows update (because if it did, it would break every program ever). in addition, the issue is happening after the dll is already loaded. speculating on exactly what the cause is is a little bit pointless without data (e.g. a crash dump), but most likely this is just due to a bug in newdark or fmsel that only happens very rarely due to the state of memory, other running processes, etc.

  8. #8
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2019
    Location: Germany
    Exact same thing with me. I tried to start the game today like I did the days before. Not working. Uncommenting no_unload_fmsel did it.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    my fmsel for thief 1/g works fine and my newdark loader for thief 2 is fine

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by vfig View Post
    most likely this is just due to a bug in newdark or fmsel that only happens very rarely due to the state of memory, other running processes, etc.
    Hopefully you’re right, but this issue has now been reported 3 times in as many days. Would you advise everybody to uncomment their no_unload_FMsel? Apart from preventing this crash are there any other potential issues by uncommenting no_unload_FMsel?

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Be interested to know the operating system of others who are affected.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by fortuni View Post
    Hopefully you’re right, but this issue has now been reported 3 times in as many days. Would you advise everybody to uncomment their no_unload_FMsel? Apart from preventing this crash are there any other potential issues by uncommenting no_unload_FMsel?
    dont enable the config if you are not having the problem. no sense in changing things that are working just fine.

  13. #13
    New Member
    Registered: Feb 2021
    Location: Newy, 'Straya, Pale Blue Dot
    Quote Originally Posted by nicked View Post
    Be interested to know the operating system of others who are affected.
    This happened on my wife's desktop running Windows 11. I checked my laptop, which is still running Windows 10, and FMSel is working on that.

    Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

  14. #14
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2019
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by nicked View Post
    Be interested to know the operating system of others who are affected.
    Windows 11

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Sounds like Windows 11 is the culprit then.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2007
    Location: Leipzig (Germany)

    Update history?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicked View Post
    Sounds like Windows 11 is the culprit then.
    I suggest to check out, what kind of updates in win 11 are installed the last days.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2007
    Location: Leipzig (Germany)
    I have some new information (only in german), but don't know, how to use them now !?!?

    This is the name of the last update in Win 11 , published on 2024-01-19:

    2024-01 Kumulatives Update für .NET Framework 3.5 und 4.8.1 für Windows 11, version 23H2 für x64 (KB5033920)
    Last edited by Dr.Sahnebacke; 27th Jan 2024 at 13:31.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    trying to work out what changed in the windows 11 update to start triggering this issue is unlikely to be a fruitful approach.

    the most useful information on what exactly is happening would be a crash dump. if someone experiencing the problem is willing to temporarily disable the workaround, and capture a crash dump, then we will have actual data on what the problem is instead of speculation.

    if you are comfortable with registry editing, instructions for capturing a crash dump can be found here: https://helgeklein.com/blog/creating...on-crash-dump/.

    or more simply—if you have visual studio installed—you can launch thief/dromed through that, and when it crashes, save a crash dump from the Debug menu.

    however, even with a crash dump, it might not be easy to locate or fix the problem, so using the config to work around it will likely still be necessary.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: May 2012
    Location: France
    Hey, I had the same issue happen and, unfortunately, didn't take the time to read the troubleshooting.txt at the time.
    I ran sfc /scannow and since it claimed to have found some issues, I just assumed my Windows install was bad and reinstalled it all from scratch.
    At least I'm fairly sure tell that the problem does NOT come from KB5034123 or KB5033920 which I both reinstalled manually and could test running the game through FMsel without issue, but probably from a later update that got installed after I reconnected the computer to the Internet and performed a Windows Update. Might be something to do with the Windows Defender updates instead…

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2007
    Location: Leipzig (Germany)
    OK, @Constance, and now the game runs fine for your system?
    For me is actually the question, should I meanwhile install darkloader instead and transfer the savegames to that? Perhaps I also find the time to test the suggestion from @vfig with the Crash-Dump.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: May 2012
    Location: France
    Yes, game runs fine again after applying the change to cam_mod.ini

    Without that change however, I get an application error ID 1000 in the event viewer, which looks like this:

    Nom de l’application défaillante THIEF.EXE, version : 1.9.0.0, horodatage : 0x56c62321
    Nom du module défaillant : combase.dll, version : 10.0.22621.2792, horodatage : 0x095924c8
    Code d’exception : 0xc0000602
    Décalage d’erreur : 0x0008639e
    ID du processus défaillant : 0x0x3DCC
    Heure de début de l’application défaillante : 0x0x1DA502F1F18E627
    Chemin d’accès de l’application défaillante : D:\Thief_1_2024-01-20\THIEF.EXE
    Chemin d’accès du module défaillant: C:\Windows\System32\combase.dll
    ID de rapport : 5c62c93a-b14d-41f1-8e15-e8c8bc7a398c
    Nom complet du package défaillant :
    ID de l’application relative au package défaillant :
    Last edited by Constance; 26th Jan 2024 at 12:51.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Sahnebacke View Post
    For me is actually the question, should I meanwhile install darkloader instead and transfer the savegames to that?
    no, please dont. just use the no_unload_fmsel config option to prevent the crash.

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Constance View Post
    Without that change however, I get an application error ID 1000 in the event viewer…
    thank you, this is very helpful! i dont deal with windows issues often enough, so i forgot that event viewer would show the exception summary.

    combase.dll provides the machinery for the COM system that most of the thief apis use, and this fail fast error code 0xc0000602 suggests that fmsel.dll is trying to uninitialize its COM use while unloading, rather than earlier in its lifecycle as ought to happen. if that is the cause, then it looks like the crash started happening because combase.dll is now—since the update—detecting this misbehaviour and aborting, instead of letting it slide silently as it used to.

    that is still speculative (and im on my phone so cant dig into fmsel’s source with this in mind yet), but the area to investigate is much more focused now. hopefully with a little more time we can pinpoint it and provide an updated fmsel.dll without the issue.

    this also explains why AngelLoader is unaffected: fmsel is doing all its work—the gui, mission unpacking, info display, mp3 juggling etc.—while its dll is loaded, so it has a lot of things to clean up when finished. but AngelLoader does all its work in a separate application, and its .dll that thief/dromed talks to is just a minimal stub that reads a config file and passed the settings to thief/dromed: i dont think it uses COM at all, just a few plain C apis.

    again, my advice for players and dromeders is to use the no_unload_fmsel option so the error situation does not arise (at least not until thief/dromed is exited when it is harmless); or use AngelLoader; or use the “-fm FMFolderName” command line option to specify an fm without loading fmsel.dll
    Last edited by vfig; 26th Jan 2024 at 07:51.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Sahnebacke View Post
    I have some new information (only in german), but don't know, how to use them now !?!?

    This is the name of the last update in Win 11 , published on 2024-01-19:

    2024-01 Kumulatives Update für .NET Framework 3.5 und 4.8.1 für Windows 11, version 23H2 für x64 (KB5033920)
    @Dr.Sahnebacke: can you edit your post above and remove the list of CVEs and dlls? the name of the update is all we need here (the rest we can look up on microsofts site), and the super-long post makes the thread hard to read. thanks!

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    I wonder if running thief/dromed in compatibility mode would have also fixed the problem.

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