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Thread: Modifying Fan Mission Objectives

  1. #1
    New Member
    Registered: May 2024

    Modifying Fan Mission Objectives

    Hi, I'm a total newbie to editing Thief fan missions even if I've been a long time player of the games.

    I'll be blunt: I'm tired of playing with the "no kill" rule that is almost always there on Expert difficulty. We all know how powerful the blackjack is, and playing the Scarlet Cascabel, I appreciated being able to factor in and react to the noise and mess murder makes (isolating individuals, closing doors before attacking and hiding bodies ASAP just in case someone does hear, which they often do, becomes essential when cutting people down instead of running around slapping people like mad silently).

    I was already mulling over how to edit FMs to remove the "no kill" rule from them but Scarlet Cascabel has really got me hankering to play this way.

    How do you edit FMs and how hard is it? Looking around in files I can see it's not a very obvious thing.

    Anyone able to help?

  2. #2
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    it's fairly simple - you just need to have the editor set up properly (T2Fix will do this for you), then you have to open the mis file and remove the objective (to know which one, you need to check the corresponding goals.str file first), see editors/mission quest data. a few second operation if you have basic Dromed skills.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2015
    Yes, in general, you will need to modify the quest variables defined in each mission to accomplish something like this. This is not at all difficult, fortunately, as DromEd includes a mechanism to do this directly and it is also possible to do this in a more indirect fashion with dbmods. Specifically, your attention should be on goals of type 2 (those with the "goal_type_X" quest variable set to 2), which indicates that they are no-kill goals, though it is also possible that some may have a more complex setup rather than relying on the convict-defined goal types.

    This being said, there are much easier and more tractable ways to go about doing this rather than manually modifying missions. If you would like to simply cancel no-kill goals in every mission, you can use the mod linked in this post. Defining "cgtm_cancel_kill" in cam_ext.cfg will cancel this goal type in every mission as long as the mod itself is active. Note that this mod, if preferred, can also cancel other goal types or make them optional. Perhaps using this would be more helpful for your use case.

  4. #4
    New Member
    Registered: May 2024
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax64 View Post
    Yes, in general, you will need to modify the quest variables defined in each mission to accomplish something like this. This is not at all difficult, fortunately, as DromEd includes a mechanism to do this directly and it is also possible to do this in a more indirect fashion with dbmods. Specifically, your attention should be on goals of type 2 (those with the "goal_type_X" quest variable set to 2), which indicates that they are no-kill goals, though it is also possible that some may have a more complex setup rather than relying on the convict-defined goal types.

    This being said, there are much easier and more tractable ways to go about doing this rather than manually modifying missions. If you would like to simply cancel no-kill goals in every mission, you can use the mod linked in this post. Defining "cgtm_cancel_kill" in cam_ext.cfg will cancel this goal type in every mission as long as the mod itself is active. Note that this mod, if preferred, can also cancel other goal types or make them optional. Perhaps using this would be more helpful for your use case.
    That's more what I'm looking for, thanks!

    I'm running into an issue. I'm trying to go by the readme to install the mod, but I'm still failing missions killing people testing it out.

    Do I install the mod into each FM's individual folder or into the base FM folder? I added "cgtm_cancel_kill" to the bottom of the cam_ext.cfg file, I even tried the Dark Mod Manager and activated the "sq_scripts" folder without success.

    What am I doing wrong?

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2015
    It would be best to install the mod into its own mod directory. In general, mod directories can be in arbitrary locations; they just need to be added to the list of paths in cam_mod.ini. However, to avoid doing all this manually and fiddling with the paths yourself, DMM can do this for you instead. If you select the "Install mod archive(s)..." button in the interface, you can then select the mod archive file and it will install it for you.

    After that, you should specify "cgtm_cancel_kill" in cam_ext.cfg with no quotes or leading semicolon (the game will ignore any line prefixed with a semicolon when parsing the configuration). If everything is set up properly, no-kill goals will be canceled and should be marked in the objectives list as such (with a ⊘︎ symbol). I hope this is somewhat clearer.

  6. #6
    New Member
    Registered: May 2024
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax64 View Post
    It would be best to install the mod into its own mod directory. In general, mod directories can be in arbitrary locations; they just need to be added to the list of paths in cam_mod.ini. However, to avoid doing all this manually and fiddling with the paths yourself, DMM can do this for you instead. If you select the "Install mod archive(s)..." button in the interface, you can then select the mod archive file and it will install it for you.

    After that, you should specify "cgtm_cancel_kill" in cam_ext.cfg with no quotes or leading semicolon (the game will ignore any line prefixed with a semicolon when parsing the configuration). If everything is set up properly, no-kill goals will be canceled and should be marked in the objectives list as such (with a ⊘︎ symbol). I hope this is somewhat clearer.
    Awesome, it worked!

    Thank you for your patience and help!

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2015
    No problem! I'm glad it seems to be working for your purposes. Hopefully, this will also help anyone who wants something similar.

  8. #8
    New Member
    Registered: May 2024
    Looks like Catacombs of Knoss doesn't work with that mod. I'm failing missions killing even when the "no kill" requirement is marked off.

    Trying to open the mission in dromed it asks for the gamesys file t20.gam, but when I browse and click on it, dromed just closes.

    I haven't found anything searching about like this, not that I really know what to look for since I think t20.gam is unique to this FM and not a common file.

    Anyone have an idea?

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2015
    Rather than being a problem with that particular mission, the issue here is that the Thief Gold convict module does not ignore canceled goals when scoring. This means that even when a no-kill goal, for example, is canceled, it will still fail as normal. This was fixed in the Thief 2 version of the module.

    I have just now updated the mod to account for this, which is available at the original link. If it is running under Thief 1/Gold and the user has specified to cancel a goal type, any matching goal's type will be nullified in addition to canceling the goal itself. This will prevent convict from scoring it so that it appears to be more in line with the Thief 2 behavior. You should be able to just install the new version over the old one and everything ought to work with that mission.

  10. #10
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    I'll just add this proves what I've said earlier - it's like not like Thief mods don't exist, it's just that nobody knows they do.


    Jax, perhaps drop all interesting mod links you have here, and then I'll maybe try to push the forum administration to make a proper sticky out of it one last time.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2015
    Yes, that is probably a good idea; I've gone ahead and done so. Given that some like this one, at least currently, lack dedicated threads, it could be easy for them to get buried.

  12. #12
    New Member
    Registered: May 2024
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax64 View Post
    Rather than being a problem with that particular mission, the issue here is that the Thief Gold convict module does not ignore canceled goals when scoring. This means that even when a no-kill goal, for example, is canceled, it will still fail as normal. This was fixed in the Thief 2 version of the module.

    I have just now updated the mod to account for this, which is available at the original link. If it is running under Thief 1/Gold and the user has specified to cancel a goal type, any matching goal's type will be nullified in addition to canceling the goal itself. This will prevent convict from scoring it so that it appears to be more in line with the Thief 2 behavior. You should be able to just install the new version over the old one and everything ought to work with that mission.
    Installed the update.

    Catacombs of Knoss now works with killing, but The Whistling of the Gears still fails when you do it.

    I guess it's not using goal types?

    I tried out drommed and it's now saying Gears has too many brushes while before when I'd try to edit other mission objectives drommed would just close after loading them.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    wait till he find the insta kill all enemys :P

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Try this as an alternative, paste into your USER.cfg file the following line

    NoKillGoalCheat

    I complied a list of some of the better cheats available here. https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152127

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2015
    That configuration variable is another good way to accomplish this particular task without having to use any mods. It is worth noting that it is only available in Thief 2, however, since this cheat was added in its version of the first-party script modules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beastro View Post
    Installed the update.

    Catacombs of Knoss now works with killing, but The Whistling of the Gears still fails when you do it.

    I guess it's not using goal types?
    This mission actually does use the convict types for its goals, including the no-kill goal. I just checked with the latest version of the mod and everything seems to be working properly. Perhaps there is an issue with your configuration for that particular mission or something similar.

  16. #16
    New Member
    Registered: May 2024
    Quote Originally Posted by fortuni View Post
    Try this as an alternative, paste into your USER.cfg file the following line

    NoKillGoalCheat

    I complied a list of some of the better cheats available here. https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152127
    Thank! I'll give it a try when I can figure out the mantling issues I'm getting with T2.

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