Reply With QuoteI'd include some of the T2 Gold missions, with adaptations as required
If You Had The Chance To Pick The Storyline For Thief 4
what storyline arc's would you like to see continued or added in thief 4 for cannon storyline
for me i would like to see the woodsie reborn and rejoin the murlocks once they murlocks return the woodsie lords crown
also i would love to see what happens to the keepers now they lost the glyph's
would also like to see some time travel back to the precursors era and the kathra-din era stuff to go and get magic since the glyphs are gone, to fix the future for the keepers
also would be cool to see more on the rest of the factions that are left, downwinders, hammers, etc
would also have to go into a darker direction with mages having a good part to do with story
and ofcourse revamped city to explore with 100% explorable rooms, where some things unlock later in game/etc
what do you all want to see, cant wait to see what direction you all want thief to go
my final though i would like to see thief go into a darker/magic direction as it was suppose to be after thief 1, as far as a main enemy i havent gave it enough though
Last edited by downwinder; 16th Mar 2025 at 23:26. Reason: typo's of course
I'd include some of the T2 Gold missions, with adaptations as required
i agree azaran as i read the post on missions and they seem very nice
but the timeline for those missions is pre thief 3 so they would have to be altered to add to a thief 4 cannon storyline
as like with thief gold those extra missions were place into thief 1 cannon storyline and changed things
Last edited by downwinder; 17th Mar 2025 at 19:52. Reason: updated more info
This takes place after my alternate Thief 3 canon debuted in One Mans Trash, which is more WWI-era (paper money, radio, global transportation). This one would be close to the technological era TDP released in (credit cards, home computers, global surveillance).
After a series of mistakes, an aging Garrett is forced to confront a world in which he has embarked on too many sequels, I mean burglaries. He goes white hat, doing consulting for private security firms, many of whom are employed by a shadowy investor to oppose the Urban Legion (the City's army) as they continue their war of conquest from Blackbrook to Bohn and onwards. Modern technology has all but eliminated Garrett's trade, but (perhaps as a result of this) thieves are now idolized in romantic novels and this new thing called "video games".
The main story pertains to "applied thanatology", the scientific study of the undead (all Thief games should center on a technological dilemma, and be set in a unique technological era). This is a metaphor that shows up in many other places - it's mainly about the struggle to maintain identity across extreme transformations.
Garrett dies at the end so there can be no more sequels.
i feel there is way to much from pre thief 1 that has to be visited =precursor era, kathra-din era and very early pagan era to be able to fill in so much we don't know
the future stuff you made and along with what gort made is great as i love the deep future, but garrett should not die as there is no need for it
so thief 4 should be a way to have all we want to know from past then to integrate it together into a story that help fix post thief 3 results from activating the final glyph with help of pagan magic to get to past and find help from legendary figures in the thief lore, maybe even the master builder himself will grace garrett with his presents
I'll go halvsies: he ends up undead. So Thief 5 is an option, but Garrett would have to stagger around and gurgle.Originally Posted by downwinder
Basically, a reboot.
I agree new Thief should be about the dark age and this should be the main theme.
I would also have Garrett wield optional powers for working with mages guild which would be part of the story arc. But it would be possible to play in pure stealth.
weylfar , i am not talking reboot but filling in a lot of the lore that was never in thief 1/g/2/3
so a prequal would only add to current cannon lore
Hanover Aldercash maybe you can have it where garrett dies but finds viktoria and they escape death back to the living
To each his own. What sort of "darker direction" did you have in mind?
Ah, ok. Only Thief narrative devs should map the story not for one game, but possible franchise, so for the next 3 games in a row to have strong foundation and consistent world.
I do like darker direction, both in narrative and gameplay.
i agree weylfar, and yes the original direction of what thief would have been with more time and money would have been a darker/midi evil style, merlin would have even been in it as we all know he was a legendary wizard, probably why mages were added
I would like to see a dual protagonist storyline that continues a few years after TDS. Now that Garrett has in his possession or rather is marked with the Final Glyph, I would like Garrett to play as a Mage/Keeper version of himself with equivalent abilities to his regular thiefy arsenal. Im not sure how to balance his "mana" pool - maybe pickups or maybe it recharges in the light.
The girl would play a traditional thief with Garrett's bag of tricks.
Im split between having either character as an option for missions or fixed characters depending on the mission.
I would definitely like an open explorable city with side missions, lootable houses and such like TDS but larger and done better. Getting to the mission start point was a nice warmup as was keeping and spending your loot as you please.
As for the storyline :
- Keepers have lost their powers and purpose and obviously blame Garrett and are out to get him.
- Power struggle between all the factions
- The Baron has returned some time between TDS and T4. His entire war campaign was secretly to obtain an artifact that was haunting him. The City is in chaos but the baron does nothing in his castle except brood over his artifact that cost so many lives, until he ......... and everyone must band together to stop him........ they finally succeed thanks to Garrett (obviously) but the main powers within the various factions are decimated and no longer hold the power that they used to....... Balance......The city must rebuild itself anew....... Garrett still has to pay rent......Snide/witty remark.....Garrett is truly the Garrett of all time.....End credits
I would also like the game to feel like a game, jank and all and not Victorian Thief Simulator with unnecessary animations and the unnecessary tedium of realism. Sometimes too much immersion can take away from the fluidity of gameplay which is one of the cornerstones of Thief and in turn breaks immersion by taking control away from the player.
sounds good mortis
my idea is starts at post thief 3, then the keepers decide to send garrett to the pagans or the mages or the necro mages to get sent back to the kathra-din era, to find a person of interest to be able to see if they can fix the glyphs, but they send you on a fetch quest so they can transport you to the pre cursor era to find a certain item to fix the future, of course along the way is adventure/etc, as someone else said would take 2-3 games to finish the cannon storyline
Last edited by downwinder; 25th Mar 2025 at 22:07. Reason: added more text
Sounds nice but precursor stuff feels more like a set of 2-3 quests at most. I believe that The City itself and all the stuff that goes with it is like a secondary character and important for the feel of the game. I also dont think that Garrett would willingly help the Keepers at this point. While hes not a fan of either the Hammers or Pagans getting too much power, he seems to be more on team "free will" than team balance and as far as we know, breaking the glyphs is something Garrett would absolutely be happy with.
What I would truly like, is for T4 to be a nice setup and toolset for Fan Mission creators along with the game itself. Using unused sections of the city hub as access points to fan missions seems fun.
How do we feel about graphics and art style ? If only there could be a simple texture/model swap option where you could select between modern and a polished version of classic style.
I like this guys art style. Could be nice if it was cleaned up a bit :
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/3q3W3v
Man, if only I had the money, I would totally spend some on making T4. Obviously it would unlikely be a game that sells in major numbers so I wouldnt go all out spending AAA money on it but I would like to have PAID contributions, no matter how small from the old LGS crew and fan mission authors on top of a small core dev team. Basically fan service in a meaningful way
I'd just want a story delivered in the style of Thief 2, where I think it was mainly "level design 1st, and story 2nd". I wouldn't want story dictating level design or places visited, for the most part.
I play T2 over and over for the level design, gameplay, and vibe (comprised of many pieces)... not the story. Story and text-based lore add to the experience, of course, so I wouldn't want them to be lame, but they're definitely not the franchise's driving force for what initially attracted me or what brings me back to play.
I'd want mostly human missions, with a moment or two of surreal/ghostly stuff mixed in mid-way in (like we had with T2's library ghost stuff), and a teleportation to a different realm for a mission or two max, like Trail of Blood mission did. Enough to break up the monotony of "human" stuff and recognize that the Thief universe dabbles in intriguing other-worldly, fantasy things, too. So, however that can be delivered story-wise, I'd probably be game. I wasn't a huge fan of T3's pagan parts or Shalebridge Cradle, so I hope those aren't mirrored or mimicked too much. Not looking for a carbon copy of T2, but just saying I appreciate that recipe, design, time periods/vibe, and approach, far more than T1, T3, and T4F.
I'm also not a huge fan of zombies (their sounds are annoying to me), so I prefer keeping undead to a minimum and only in a certain part or two, like a specific graveyard, crypt, library, or similar. And certainly not for an entire mission, unless the game is 20 missions long and can afford such an excursion, but such a big game isn't likely in this day and age. If there are a ton of zombies necessary for the story, wow I hope not but if so, then I would want 1000 water arrows and 50 holy waters to kill them all ASAP so I don't hear their repetitive groans for 3 hours.
Hmm, that's not my favorite design for Thief. Proportions look pretty stylized, inspired by one of the Monkey Island games and maybe a touch by the King's Quest (2015) reboot game. I'm fine with the style for those games, but not Thief. The sassy pose of that haunt doesn't do much for me either, like it is trying to look cool for cool's sake, in case someone is taking it's picture to be posted on social media. One thing I don't care for in Dishonored games is the stylized, caricatured look of characters and animations, which I fear Thick as Thieves will do, as well. So if that can all be avoided 100% in the next Thief, that would be great, imoI like this guys art style. Could be nice if it was cleaned up a bit
Last edited by Darkness_Falls; 28th Mar 2025 at 14:26.
I agree, the model design is a bit too skinny amazing spidermanny types. I was more into the how the graphics, textures and lighting come off which I felt was a refined or modern version of classic Thief without going the "realistic" route. I have no idea about stuff like this so I cant quite put into words what Im picturing in my head. Definitely not realistic and dark and gritty.
A little bit less drab than T1, little less colourful than T2 in terms of colour palette. I like the interesting and varied textures used in games back in the day. For character design, a more 3D or higher poly version of the classics i.e fingers and a real face and a bit smoother and less jagged overall. Lighting - obvious light and dark areas, some reflections for realism. I want to see the stuff around me. Some texture bump mapping so that objects match their textures.
For physics, realistic physics would be nice but Im willing to accept some compromise and jankiness when it comes to body physics. The rag dolls are annoying to manipulate in TDM, realistic though they might be, it would be nicer if they were less jelly like and could clip through stuff a bit.
I agree with you on the bit about the overall story. While it does have major consequences for the world, it doesnt really have much of an effect on the core gameplay loop. Good level design, world building via environmental storytelling - readables and convos in the mission are far more interesting. The setting of the City and its struggle to balance out extreme order vs extreme chaos rather than the usual good and evil are already quite different. The overarching storyline need not have GoT like plot twists every 10 minutes. Im good with a decent storyline that is tailored to the Thief universe that ties up the missions is good enough for me.
I'm not sure about the storyline, but I really didn't like being forced to jump at specific locations. ��
This is what AI proposed as a Thief 4.
Thief: Echoes of Light - Plot Outline
Logline: Years after the events of Deadly Shadows, Garrett finds himself caught between the City's familiar factions and a mysterious new power wielding dangerous light-based magic, forcing him to delve into forgotten histories and manipulate the shifting alliances to prevent the City from being "purified" into oblivion.
Setting: The City, roughly a decade after Deadly Shadows. The scars of past crises remain, but an uneasy equilibrium exists. Technology and magic continue their slow, intertwined evolution. New districts have risen, built upon the ruins of the old, while familiar haunts still hold their secrets.
Act I: The Glimmering Prize
1. Introduction: Garrett is older, perhaps more established, but still operating in the shadows, taking jobs that pay well and promise minimal trouble. He maintains his cynical outlook, observing the City's power struggles from a detached distance.
2. The Job: Garrett accepts a lucrative contract from a shadowy contact (perhaps a disgruntled former Keeper or a desperate merchant) to steal a unique lens-like artifact – the "Luminous Eye" – from the newly established headquarters of an enigmatic group known as the Argent Order. They present themselves as philanthropists and scholars interested in "civic enlightenment" and operate out of a brightly lit, technologically advanced tower in a redeveloped district.
3. Infiltration & Revelation: Garrett infiltrates the Argent Tower. Security is unusual – relying heavily on intense light sources, reflective surfaces creating optical illusions, and guards equipped with light-projecting devices rather than traditional weapons. He secures the Luminous Eye but accidentally witnesses a ritual where Argent Order members channel energy through similar lenses, creating beams of searing light that seem to erase shadows and cause intense pain to anyone caught within. He realizes they aren't mere scholars; they wield a potent, unfamiliar form of energy manipulation.
4. The Escape & The Hunt: Garrett escapes, but not unnoticed. The Argent Order, led by the charismatic but ruthless Prelate Karkus, identifies him as a threat. They deploy specialized hunters – "Illuminators" – skilled in tracking and using light-based tactics to flush targets out of darkness. Garrett becomes the hunted.
Act II: Entangled Alliances
1. Seeking Answers: Hunted and intrigued, Garrett needs information. He learns the Argent Order worships a precursor entity associated with pure, primal light – an antithesis to the Trickster's chaos and the Builder's structured order. They believe the City's reliance on shadow and its history of paganism and Keeper secrecy are corruptions to be purged by overwhelming light.
2. Faction Reactions:
o Keepers: The Keepers are deeply disturbed. Their glyphs react erratically to the Argent Order's energy. Ancient, fragmented prophecies speak of a "Cleansing Flame" or "Unmaking Light." Internal debate rages: should they intervene directly, or merely observe and preserve their knowledge? Garrett must navigate their internal politics, perhaps trading information or stealing restricted texts from them.
o Hammerites: They view the Argent Order's light as unnatural and heretical – a "False Dawn" mocking the Builder's true creation. They begin mobilizing their forces, leading to skirmishes in contested districts. Garrett might exploit this conflict, raiding Hammerite armories for tools or information while they are distracted by the Argent Order.
o Pagans: The primal light is anathema to the natural world and the deep shadows they inhabit. Their beasts react violently to its presence. They see the Argent Order as an existential threat. Garrett might find temporary, uneasy alliances with Pagan shamans, perhaps needing their help to navigate magically protected areas or seeking ancient remedies against light-based attacks.
3. Escalating Conflict: The Argent Order expands its influence, establishing "Beacons" in various districts that project their purifying light, altering the environment and making stealth difficult. They target sites sacred to Pagans and Keepers, and clash openly with Hammerites. Garrett undertakes missions to sabotage these Beacons, steal more Argent artifacts (revealing more of their plan and history), and rescue individuals targeted by the Order. He learns they are collecting specific artifacts – including the Luminous Eye he stole – needed to amplify a massive, city-wide "Purification Ritual."
Act III: Race Against the Dawn
1. The Ritual Site: Garrett discovers the Argent Order plans to conduct their ritual atop the Clocktower (or another prominent, high-energy location), using the combined power of the artifacts to permanently reshape the City's atmosphere, burning away shadows and potentially minds attuned to them.
2. The Gauntlet: To reach the ritual site, Garrett must navigate a City in chaos. Factions battle openly in the streets below. The path to the tower is heavily guarded by Illuminators and fortified with light barriers and traps. He may need to leverage the ongoing battles, using Hammerite assaults or Pagan ambushes as distractions.
3. Infiltrating the Apex: Garrett infiltrates the Clocktower/ritual site during the height of the ceremony. The area is flooded with unstable light energy. He must use his mastery of shadow, timing, and gadgets (perhaps specialized tools acquired earlier – smoke bombs effective against light, specially treated lenses, etc.) to bypass guards and navigate environmental hazards.
4. Confrontation & Choice: Garrett confronts Prelate Karkus at the ritual's focal point. He has a choice:
o Destroy the Artifacts: Cause a backlash of energy, potentially damaging the City but stopping the ritual definitively.
o Steal the Central Focus: Disrupt the ritual, causing it to fail unpredictably, potentially leaving lingering light anomalies but preserving the artifacts (perhaps for future use or safekeeping).
o Manipulate the Ritual: (A more complex, risky option) Subtly alter the ritual's alignment to target only the Argent Order themselves or redirect the energy harmlessly.
5. Aftermath: Depending on Garrett's choice, the ritual ends dramatically. The Argent Order is broken, though Karkus might escape or be imprisoned. The City is saved from purification but is irrevocably changed. Lingering light phenomena might create new hazards or alter familiar districts. The balance of power shifts – the Keepers may be forced into a more active role, the Hammerites might claim victory over heresy, the Pagans retreat deeper into their territories.
6. Conclusion: Garrett slips away in the ensuing chaos, perhaps with a valuable artifact or crucial piece of knowledge. He returns to his shadowy existence, reflecting on the City's near-destruction and the constant emergence of new powers seeking to impose their will. The threat of the "Primal Light" entity may linger, suggesting it wasn't truly defeated, only its current agents. The City survives, scarred but enduring, and Garrett remains its silent, unwilling guardian, forever bound to its secrets and shadows.
I kind of like the concept of 100 years after the events of Thief 3 in principle. The concept I'd start with for Thief 4 would be a setting like the 1890s~1910s, when Model-T type cars and simple fire arms are around, but there's still the feudal system. On reflection, though, I'd be worried that it'd start to overlap with Dishonored. But to be honest Dishonored is effectively Thief 4 in spirit anyway.
Of course another alternative is a cyberpunk future, but at that point it shouldn't really be Thief 4 anymore either. I really want to see a game like that, far future, sneaking & thievery, cyberpunk tech, but firearms banned, etc. But anyway, as its own game.
The one concept that would be unmistakably Thief that I can think of worth doing is a straight up remake of The Dark Project with modern visuals. They've done this with the System Shock & Tomb Raider re-releases, but I felt like those were kind of cheap remakes. The new visuals weren't actually all that great. If they were going to remake Thief TDP, it should look like Thief 4 looked like, since about the only thing I did like about that game were the visuals and aesthetic.
And what does Azaran propose, besides cut content and AI?
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