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Thread: Thief 2 FM - The Art of Thievery (Dec. 8, 2001)

  1. #26
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2000

    Just an incredible FM here...I've been playing it for the past 3 hours. I like in the readme...the author was inspired by the manssion in Clive barker's Undying, and you can tell. Big, grandious staircases, great hallways, the works!

    One question...how do I get into the library?

    One more question...The camera room on the first floor has a ladder going up what looks like 3 floors. Are there other entrrances to these camera rooms? I found a different security room on the second floor but I noticed that there was no ladder going through the middle of the floor.

    Great mission...better than the 7th Crys IMHO.

  2. #27
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada

    Lockpick -

    Security Control Rooms -
    Spoiler:
    There are 3 Security Control room connected by ladders. They all have seperate doors on their own floor. There is another security control room in the main house, which is probably the one you mentioned. It isn't connected to anything else.


    Library -
    Spoiler:
    There are a couple of guards with Library keys. One stands guard outside the library door that opens onto the hallway with the Church Door and one of the North Wing doors. The other guard patrols in and out of the library through a door on the lower floor. I think it's fairly close to the Captain's rooms, but I'm not positive about that.


    I'm very glad to hear you are enjoying the mission. I was very impressed with it and thoroughly enjoyed playing it.

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: The Foxhole's meat dumpster

    Okay, here's one: playing on expert, I've found 16 out of 17 secrets...and I've also found a curious key on the balcony overlooking the garden area (I also found it on normal...I didn't get to that area on hard, so I don't know). "A toolbox key", it's called...and I wonder if there's any use for it -- besides the obvious "it's for a toolbox, stupid!" that I know someone's itching to blurt out right now. Any hints? Ideas? Referrals to our contacts on the Swiss border?

  4. #29
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2000

    Hey Sorrow, I know you from the HL board (I'm thor).

    I might have to replay this mission from the start, it's that good.
    If you KO someone and then strip them of their goods, does that count for a pickpocket? I'll go through and do a Bodycount round (nobody lives) then I'll try to go for the Expert. Verrrrrry tough...

    Night - thanks for the tips! [Thumbs Up!]

  5. #30
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada

    Silver Sorrow - I've never seen that key!! I know it's not necessary for anything and I expect it's there by accident. I'll go see if I can find it. I guess Peter and I dropped the ball on that one, because neither of us noticed it. Congratulations on finding 16 secrets! That's what I found on Expert, but I know where the other one is, now, so if you get tired of looking, let me know.

    Lockpick, I believe you have to grab the goods BEFORE you knock them out for it to count as a pickpocket! Otherwise, its's just robbery.

  6. #31
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: The Foxhole's meat dumpster

    Hey...look! The forums work for me again...sorta. Oh, well.

    Hey, thor--er, uh...Lockpick! Doing some slumming? Getting tired of mowing down Grunt after Grunt after Grunt in a bunch of plain, uninspired levels that yet another author has claimed is the Second Coming and yet fails -- miserably -- to deliver on that point? And while I'm on a rant, I...um...never mind. Reviewer's Complaint. It cramps up on me once in a while. A little Thief helps tremendously.

    I've been through this one three times...it's been a while since I've been inclined to do that. Translation: applause for the author!

    Nightwalker - Yeah, trust me to find something weird and/or break a mission. It was on the balcony overlooking the -- what, Garden? is that too simple a term for what appears to be a biodome? -- on the right in the shadows. I keep coming up one secret short...I wonder if it's the same secret across all levels? Is that possible? And will John ever see Marsha again? Tune in next time... But thanks: I just might e-mail you about that last secret later on...I'm going to take a walking tour of the mission first.

  7. #32
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada

    I asked Richard about the key and it's not supposed to be there. He just forgot about it.

  8. #33
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment

    Nightwalker,

    I did find that toolbox key, but I only got 15 of 17 secrets in ghost mode, so I figured that I had just missed the toolbox. Unlike most FM's I have tested, I never went back to find all the secrets. I had my hands full just playing with the AI. Nice to know I didn't miss the toolbox though....

  9. #34
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: 37.941, -122.485

    Great, great mission; truly sumptuous (never thought I'd ever use that adjective to describe a mission). As I was playing, I kept thinking "Yeah, I could live here and be happy." Completed only on Hard, though. Ghosting in Expert would give me a stroke from the anxiety!

    Possible camera bug?:
    Spoiler:
    Do some of the cameras randomly turn off and on? The first I noticed was the wall niche camerae with its own power switch next to it guarding the passage near the North Wing. It was on when I first saw it but when I approached it from the other direction later, it was off (frobbing its switch turned it on again). The second was the ceiling camera nearest the Glass House section. First it was on, then it was off after I found its control room, then later it was on again, and finally just a few minutes later upon re-entering the room, it was off. Anyone else observe this?

  10. #35
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada

    I never had that happen, Norman. When I turned them off, they stayed off. I guess we'll have to wait and see if anyone else reports this or if it's just something weird that happened to you.

    Don't be afraid to try it on Ghost, though. You don't HAVE to ghost it. I didn't. You can choose your options on it. You aren't allowed to set of any alarms, but you can choose to ghost it or blackjack less than 5 people or you can blackjack everyone, if you like. It's well worth playing on this difficulty, because the ending is quite different and there are 17 secrets to be found. The ones you found on Hard are still there, but the triggers are harder to find plus there are new ones.

  11. #36
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Washington DC metro, USA

    Just finished this on Hard. Little over 3 hours. I'm overwhelmed. This guy works for the company, doesn't he? This has got to be a mission that didn't make it to the TII CD for one reason or another, isn't it?
    Awsome! Absolutely awsome! Time for some gold hammer awards around here and this is one of them.

  12. #37
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2000
    Location: USA

    I'm playing on Ghost difficulty now and I'm stuck!

    I've achieved all objectives except the Sword. However...
    Spoiler:
    I have the four talismans but the Lord's study door is barred and so is the back window and I don't know how to open the vault entrance with the four element panels (the one whose outer door is opened by the switch behind the clock). I fired arrows at the panels using opposite permutations of elements, etc. No dice. The talismans don't seem to do anything that I can see, either. Gah.
    Can anybody help me out here?

  13. #38
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada

    NoCokePepsi -
    Spoiler:
    If you read the Instruction scoll (or whatever it's called) it pretty much sets out things in the order you have to do them. You need to get into the study. To do that, go up into the attic of the building where you can see the window into the study and look to the right of the window for a scroll. It tells you how to open the door grate. Then, when you are in the Lord's study, look for a lever to open a secret door in the floor and go have a look down there.

  14. #39
    Member
    Registered: Oct 1999
    Location: Calif., USA

    Yup. This one's a keeper. Belongs on anyone's list of the 10 greatest Thief missions of all time. I really enjoyed playing this one because there's always seemed to be so few good old-fashioned classic Thief mansion missions in the style of Bafford's or Ramirez. What can I say about the architecture and style? Wow. I'm speechless. For some pathetic reason I always thought I was pretty good at designing Thief mansions in my own puny attempts at Dromeding. This mission certainly puts things in their proper perspective for me and suddenly Dromed has lost its luster. How can anyone hope to compare to a mission like this? It's beyond gorgeous. I personally didn't see anything which reminded me of Undying, save for the opulence and the size. It took me over four hours to complete and I'm positive that's a record.

    I played on Expert. I really like blackjacking guards, mostly because it gives me freedom to explore and hunt for secrets, so that was the only optional objective I decided not to complete. And many many kudos to the author for making this an optional objective. Those red cancel marks on my objective screen were just enough to shame me somewhat, but didn't detract from the way I like to play Thief. And I bet it worked perfectly well for those who like to ghost their missions. However I did manage to complete the mission without being spotted and seeing the green check by that objective was very satisfying. I hope more missions incorporate something like this (Hmmm, there was another recent mission where you could avoid the no knockout rule by flipping a switch at the very beginning. Which mission was that? Becuase I thought that was very clever too). I also picked 30 pockets. I only found 14 secrets though.

    Even ignoring the limited knockout objective, there were places in this mission that were fiendlishly, cruelly difficult. I liked that. I have a question: Is it possible to get *all* of the loot on Expert? You know what I mean.

    Following are my personal highlights from The Art of Thievery, despoilerized for your protection and hygiene:
    Spoiler:
    The North Entrance where the painting hangs. Ha! That was pretty tough. I figured out how to turn off the light but I could never do it without alerting the guards and sounding the alarm. Once I deactivated that goddamn camera I figured maybe I could lower myself down by rope, but I could never manage to do it. Well a little patience and the discovery of a well-hidden note provided the answer. Good one!


    Getting the air talisman was tricky, fun, and required nearly all of my thiefy abilities. But nobody even knew I was there.

    Spoiler:
    The elemental room reminded me of some of the more outrageous moments in Soulforge, in that it seemed ludicrously impossible. I managed to get past most of it by being very quick, just barely quick enough, until at the end I realized how to do it much more simply. Doh!


    Spoiler:
    Those bastardy bitch-rag cameras made things soooo much more difficult and tricky. Thankfully they can be turned off but you really have to work hard to do it. Did you know you can bash the security camera doors open with your sword if you don't want to go after the key? And although the guards sometimes get suspicious they usually don't become aware of you. Anyway, I did that the first time but felt guilty and went back and did it right.


    Spoiler:
    The very hardest part of this FM. Getting into that room with the two guys so you can get the chest key and the key to the North Wing. It was so tricky that, a) I can't believe there isn't a simpler way, and, b) Maybe here is a bug or design flaw. Okay there's a helmeted guard patrolling outside whom I must avoid. Luckily he pauses with his back to you for a long time. Here's the possible bug: There is another guard who goes inside the room. When I was playing it he paused outside for quite some time, facing the door to the room. Then he begins his patrol to walk into the room. However, he kept getting stuck on the railing and just kept walking in place, making it impossible to get by him. You should try to make his patrol route wider at that point, or remove that portion of the railing. Anyway, after going back a few different times to a previous save I manage to get to a point where he gets past the railing to walk into the room. After he's in the room, I shoot a moss arrow on the tile floor, crouch down, and try to pick the lock. No dice! The guards inside always become alerted! So do I decide to screw the no detection goal or keep trying? I decided to keep trying (I didn't want another red mark!). What I ended up doing was follow closely behind the guard and frobbed the door as it was closing behind him. This took me many many tries because: a) He kept getting stuck on the railing, b) They kept spotting me when I tried to turn off the light inside, and #&%*@ c) When I FINALLY did it I closed the door behind me and got locked inside with no way out!! Getting to that light switch without closing the door is VERY tough but I managed to do it. Okay everybody. Go ahead and shame me. Is there an easier way to do it? I don't believe I ever found a key to that room.


    Okay this is getting too long. My apologies to everybody and there are several more highlights I'd like to relate but I'll restrain myself and just say that making ghosting optional, all the cameras, the ability to turn them off (with difficulty!), the helmeted guards thrown in to make things even more tricky (I only used two gas mines BTW), the loud floors, turning off lights, all of these elements and more combined to make a game that was a pure joy to play, at times extremely frustrating but a GOOD kind of frustrating, never the bad kind.

  15. #40
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2001
    Location: Southern California

    Thank you, Richard, for your hard work to make this awesome fm! And a special thanks for making secrets that i could actually find. This was a nice christmas gift to all of us poor thief addicted taffers.

  16. #41
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2000
    Location: USA

    Thanks, Nightwalker. I understood the instruction scroll. My problem was that I overlooked the scroll in the attic when I was up there. (This is a very entertaining mission. It has just about everything a Thief lover could want.)

  17. #42
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: Exeter, RI

    AAAAIIIGH!

    Ah. That's better.

    I'm playing Art of Thievery and for some strange reason, I'm at four hours of gameplay, and I can't find my way into the North Wing. Everyone (and I mean everyone) is either out cold, or taking the big dirt nap. I've found the secret passage with the ladders, and that doesn't really lead to anything I might need (I think). This looks like it's going to be obvious, so I'm bracing myself for the "village idiot" feeling/award.

    -Theef.

  18. #43
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada

    What difficulty are you playing on? A lot of stuff changes in this one on each one. On Normal, you can't get into the North Wing at all. Post which one you're playing and I'll help you out.

  19. #44
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: Exeter, RI

    Thanks, Night. I'm playing "Normal" (haven't done that in a long time) but someone here suggested playing through at increasing levels of ability. So here I am in normal and stuck! (Now applying for my Low-IQ Discount Card which will allow me to ride public transport for free).

    I've got every painting except for one (Evil Look) and I'm supposed to steal some beads from the Mechanist Lord's belt. Hell's Bells, I don't even know where to find him/her/it.

    -Theef

  20. #45
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada

    There was a diary in the Lord's bedroom that gave details of where the paintings were located and it also gave you an idea of where to look for him. I don't think Rich changed it in the final release, so he should be in
    Spoiler:
    the glass house
    .

    As for the painting, it should be
    Spoiler:
    over the stairs in the South Staircase. It's quite high, but you can get it.


    You were quite right about starting on Normal. It has a huge amount of replayability if you do, because each difficulty you get access to more of the mansion and more secrets.

  21. #46
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Tampa

    first of all SUPERB MISSION
    NW: im playing on ghost so will this show me the whole mission? since there are different endings apparently, does it benefit me to replay it if im already playing on hardest? or will i pretty much see everytthing on ghost?

    also im stuck although i may figure it out soon but in case i dont please answer this :

    SPOILER
    .
    .

    how do i get into the north area? i have all the paintings except that one. and i got into the water cages but cant get into the middle one "water chest." i also opened the stained glass window thing but cant find the talismans.
    i have pretty much explored the whole mansion and and dont know what im missing. also i havent got into the double metal doors near the North-door, but that may be part of the 'north' goal. but i still have a couple ideas so im not totally stuck yet.

    BTW has anyone got onto the roof? i love getting onto roofs and doing so in this big mission would be a treat.

  22. #47
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada

    I never managed to get onto the roof, but I didn't try all that hard.

    If you started on the most difficult setting, you will see all the mission. You get more out of it if you start on Normal and work your way up, because things get harder and you get to see more of the mansion as you progress.

    As for where you are stuck, you need a key to the North Wing and also a key for that chest underwater. If you still haven't found them, then the key to the North Wing should be
    Spoiler:
    in the Captain's room.
    and the water chest key should be
    Spoiler:
    in the Lord's bedroom. I don't know exactly where, because it was added for the final release, which I haven't had time to play yet.
    In case you just can't figure out how to GET to the water chest,
    Spoiler:
    there is a button (or lever) up on the rafters over the pool.


    [ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: Nightwalker ]


  23. #48
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: 37.941, -122.485

    OK, I'm saying uncle. After much searching, I still can't find the 17th secret in Ghost mode and I bet it's the same one that both Silver Sorrow and Nightwalker didn't find. The ones I've found are

    Spoiler:
      [*]01. Third story floor hatch which is connected to ...[*]02. The second story passage with movable armoires at the ends which is also connected to ...[*]03. The secret entrance to central courtyard[*]04. Ship's wheel that opens the fireplace painting in the lounge near the music room.[*]05. The book that opens two secret doors from the smallest library to the adjacent hallway.[*]06. Purse in the kitchen fireplace.[*]07. Switch that moves the guard captain's bed.[*]08. The wall painting space over the bed in one of the women's rooms.[*]09. Wall painting space holding the funeral urn (gross) in the lord's bedroom.[*]10. Torch that opens the earth talisman hiding place.[*]11. Switch that moves the statue over the water talisman tank.[*]12. Switch that lifts the cage over the fire talisman.[*]13. Grandfather clock switch that open the first door of the vault.[*]14. Switch that allows rear access to the hall camera's power control near the North Wing.[*]15. Switch in the lord's study that allows access to the Elemental Room.[*]16. Chest in North Wing rafters that contains an invisibility potion.[/list]


    Pretty please, what's the 17th? I hope it's not something I passed a dozen times in the mission but I really hope it's not something totally hidden away in the corner of an obscure rafter.

    Oh, and by the way,

    Spoiler:
    Where the heck did the lord of the manor sneak off to? After pickpocketing him, I followed him from the captain's quarters back to his own bedroom. Much later on my way to the vault, I passed his room; the previously closed door was open and he was gone. I couldn't find him again.

  24. #49
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada

    If I read your list right, you did miss the same one I did.

    Secret 17 -
    Spoiler:
    On top of one of the REALLY tall bookcases in the Lord's library in the North Wing, there is a chest. It blends in with the bookcase and is hard to spot.


    As for the Lord, I think he
    Spoiler:
    goes and hangs out in the Captain's room, though I'm not sure about that.

  25. #50
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Elizabeth, NJ

    Nightwalker, I played this all weekend end i'm just about to complete the last objective of getting the sword. I found 90% of the secrets and now it just keeps crashing on me. Is there a problem I do not know about.

    Thank you

    Footpad [Wot?] [Wot?] [Wot?]

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