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Thread: Solving the California power crisis aka George Bush is a moron.

  1. #1
    Vixen From Hell
    Guest

    Solving the California power crisis aka George Bush is a moron.

    I live in california, which a few of you know has been in a stage three(the worst kind apparently) energy crisis.
    Background Stuff: This started about 4 years ago, when a San Diego state senator, Steve Peace, decided that deregulating californias power would be a good thing, and when the mojority of voters agreed. (These voters were apparently influenced by advertisments with happy music and cheerful people claiming that all our lives would be better with deregulated power. Ha. Ha. Ha.) Flash forward, our electric plants are now controlled by out of state companies like Enron Corp., Duke Energy, and Reliant Energy(irony). These are Texas power barons. [edit]Except for Duke which is a North Carolina company, thanks the_grip[/edit] Irony again. Now, as californias power grid operates on less then 1.5% electricty reserves for more then a week, northern and central California have been suffering rolling blackouts, and the texans are drooling as they watch thier stocks jump. The in-state companies, PG&E and Edison, are close to bankruptcy and are forced to overwork and underpay thier employees. Gov. Gray Davis is watching his presidential hopes get flushed, while trying to find the resources to fix this, Edison can't charge thier customers more then 7cents a minute, and the boyos in texas want around 40.

    Now: our fearless leader up in the white house has taken an interest. He's ordered a two week extension of federal directives requiring natural gas/electric companies to keep supplying californian utilities, which, in all likely-hood, might not be enough. And this will likely not be enough to "restore the financial health of the utility companies(which are about 12 billion in debt) and develop other sufficiant sources of energy." Riiiiiight. This will be the last such order, according to senior officials. And now, to show he really cares, Bush has decided to come up with a brand new idea to help the situation. Sadly, ideas involve brains. We're in trouble before he even starts. These are the options he's considering: first, let the state lift its air pollution restrictions from power plants, if we ask for it. Now, air quaility permit restrictions don't limit production. Plants have managed to folow air restrictions without having to power down. This great idea will help nothing, but in making it seem like he will let us do it *if we ask*, Bush tries to cover up the fact that he has rejected several requests for price controls on wholesale electricity. Instead(number 2), he intends to discuss building power plants in Baja California and electrical shipments from Mexico to CA with Mexican President Vincent Fox when they meet in February. Personally, I hope Fox laughs in his compassionate conservative face and forces Bush to realize that pretending to be a problem solver won't impress anyone. Which, considering who we're talking about, will take him a few tries to understand....



    [This message has been edited by Vixen From Hell (edited January 26, 2001).]

  2. #2
    GPMAgent
    Guest

    I'm TELLING YOU! A civil War between the East and the West will happen!!

    Chances are it'll happen.

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    All Your Base Are Belong To Us!

  3. #3
    Fafhrd
    Guest

    I think it's funny that the Federal Clean Air act that Bush is blaming the power crisis on was approved by his FATHER, and Texas STILL hasn't fully implemented it.

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    It is a far, far better thing to keep a firm anchor in nonsense than to set out on the troubled waters of thought.

    [This message has been edited by Fafhrd (edited January 26, 2001).]

  4. #4
    Lake
    Guest

    Yeah, it is all Bush's fault. He has been in office a whole five days so he should be able to snap his fingers and give you more power. How many power plants has California built in the last 10 years?



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    Lake

  5. #5
    Para?noid
    Guest

    starry for the love of gosd get back into irc now.... its so borin in #hnase without hanse and you and styff.

  6. #6
    crunchy
    Guest

    AHHH! It's good to see that butthead politician across the world think alike. A similar situation has occurred in South Oz with our government trying to sell off all the utilities. Now most of the electricity generated here goes interestate where they can get more money for it. Luckily during this heat wave we are having, blackouts have not been too regular.

  7. #7
    the_grip
    Guest

    Just a note: Duke Power is not based in Texas, but in North Carolina. They are a client of the consulting company i work for, and this is specified on their website.

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    "You call him Dr. Grip, doll!"

  8. #8
    Vixen From Hell
    Guest

    Lake: What the hell are you talking about? Is it possible you're talking about something else entirely? I did give background info, which I believe doesn't mention Bush once. (Give me a break, I'm not *that* irrational ) The blame lies with Steve Peace(a democrat by the way thankyousomuch), the californian voters(who are really quite silly a lot of the time), and the texas/(nc) power barrons.

    Nor is anyone asking for a miracle. However, I do find his efforts unbelievably laughable. Solution to the power crisis? Enable more polution! Thats it! Of course, if someone explains to me the logic of this I *may* just change my mind...

    How many power plants have we built? (First of all thats a fallacy of presumption but I won't go into that.) Not many, I imagine, since officials were predicting power usage based on a recession that was projected to last for another decade or so.

    And I wasn't going to bring this up in this thread, but as for him only being in office for 5 days, well, it was enough for him to end aid to foriegn abortion/family planning clinics....on the aniversary of Roe v. Wade.....so much for uniting left and right under a bipartisan government...

    Watch, as american brakes, grinds its gears, and takes a step backwards.

    (Thanks grip, I've changed it)

    [This message has been edited by Vixen From Hell (edited January 27, 2001).]

  9. #9
    Auditor
    Guest

    Politicans...

    Is there any more evil beings?

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    T-Minus 15.193792102158E+9 years until the universe closes

  10. #10
    Roger
    Guest

    You are right Vixen, but have you thought about all the people who will lose their jobs when these companies go bankrupt (because they will)? Now that will start some revolts. The medias won't look for another man to accuse of all this when they've got the president himslef on a plate. And in the end Bush's political rating will suffer, no matter whose fault all this is, because as you said, Bush is playing a problem solver. IMO - he'll be the one that will feel the heat (even though it may not be his fault). And who knows when the actual problem will be solved...?

  11. #11
    Garboshnik
    Guest

    Isn't the whole thing related to the huge increase in natural gas prices? Our bill went up 400% last month and we turned the heat down..... Seeing how no one has run out of gas there doesn't seem to be a shortage.

  12. #12
    Jennie&Tim
    Guest

    One thing I don't understand is why on earth the "deregulation" wouldn't let the power companies at least raise prices if the wholesale price went up. I know it was in the agreement but price-fixing doesn't work long-term. It seems remarkably stupid.

  13. #13
    Junkyman
    Guest

    Price-fixing generally only comes in yearly doses, thank goodness. And the funny thing is that the power companies can either profit hugely from these deals (what never gets publicized) or they lose money- oh well.

    Personally, I think that California itself has essentially been the brunt of it's own problem from the beginning, but that's just my opinion, I dunno.

    And the main problem with gas shortages is that no one is really doing any new exploration for new resources- all the money is in oil.



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    Actually, I'm Canadian. That's like an American, but without a gun.

  14. #14
    buglunch
    Guest

    Don't they find most natural gas on top of oil reserves? It's lighter.And you're in Oiltown, Oilberta (my hometown), Junkyman.

    -------------------------------
    Drive less.

  15. #15
    Hydrargyrum
    Guest

    Mrm... call me a left-wing Berkeley wacko (though I actually live several miles from Berkeley and seldom do more than pass through Berkeley on my way to other places) but I'm rather enjoying the rolling blackouts. It's not often circumstances conspire to point out the extent to which the energy guzzling first world takes its supply of wattage for granted---after all, what precipitated the present "crisis" is largely power plant maintenance which was deferred during the summer, meaning around two-thirds of California generating capacity is operational at any given time. A good chunk of summer demand is for air conditioning, just as winter demand is driven by heating. While there are plenty who don't share my opinion, blaming Texas or North Carolina power generators for a crisis that's largely caused by Californians' general tendency to avoid sweating or putting on sweaters and willingness to elect a comically clueless state legislature is something I find verging on the hillarious.

    Oi, and lest this be construed as a republican commentary, be it known that I'm embarrassed to be in a country capable of electing Bush and voted an almost straight democratic ticket last November. Not that really matters; this here is democrat landslide country, and I actually though most of the republican canidates had better personal platforms than the democrats did (like killing Star Wars, for example). Unfortunately, they also all stuck to the Republican partly platform, which I pretty
    much disagree with on virtually every point.

    America. Where the people have power and refuse to take responsibility for their actions.

    Okay, somebody take this soap box away from me...

    Hg
    [ For those not familiar with California geography: Berkeley's just across the bay from San Francisco. ]

    [ buglunch: I believe you're correct. ]

    [ Jennie&Tim: Not really. Deregulation mostly just means removing some government restrictions on a market, which is a far cry from creating a market where producers and buyers have roughly equal ability to control prices. California's particular brand of deregulation basically created a situation where producers can raise prices but power distributors have comparatively little control over thier prices or the amount of power they have to handle. Hence the near bankruptcy of the two main power distributors in California. The state is currently propping them up, but is also set to run out of money fairly soon. ]


    [This message has been edited by Hydrargyrum (edited January 26, 2001).]

  16. #16
    Agent Monkeysee
    Guest

    This whole situation is madness. I live in Washington and as part of our energy agreement w/California we pipe a lot of power down during the summer when California needs it and they pipe power up to us in the Winter when we need it. But due to the deregulation fiasco Washington State is still sending power to California and we will most likely never be compensated for it.

    A number of smelters (aluminum I think), as well as a few other industries in Southern Washington, have discovered that they profit more from selling their power to California then they do from actually smelting and industrializing so they have laid off nearly their entire work force while still pulling a profit. They are able to sell their power due to some sort of obscure contract these industries have made w/the Washington state gov't.

    Therefore because of the power drain up here caused by the power drain in Cal our prices have gone up as well (although we don't have blackouts or anything). The whole situation is a huge mess w/ramifications that have the potential to ripple throughout the country and, economically, throughout the world.

    Originally posted by GPMAgent
    I'm TELLING YOU! A civil War between the East and the West will happen!!
    Indeed. Soon the Union will collapse and America will degenerate into a number of commonwealths made up of three or four states each. Mark my words, by 2020 the United States will be merely a dream

    ------------------
    "Non serviam"

    Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds
    -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

    [This message has been edited by Agent Monkeysee (edited January 26, 2001).]

  17. #17
    Natasha
    Guest

    Yeah Monkeysee, its the same with Oregon...we're sucking away thier power without the resources to compensate.

    As for the civil war.... California has one of the largest economies in the world. We don't need any of you. <font size=1>If it weren't for the power thing...</font>

    --------------------

    Yet another example of the fallacies of capitalism......

    [This message has been edited by Natasha (edited January 27, 2001).]

  18. #18
    Lake
    Guest

    Originally posted by Vixen From Hell:
    [B]Lake: What the hell are you talking about? Is it possible you're talking about something else entirely?
    Gee, I do not know how I got the wrong opinion when the title of the thread includes "aka George Bush is a moron." Not biased, are we? Californians voted for deregulation and now are whining because of the consequences. Solve the problem yoursleves and stop crying California.



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    Lake

  19. #19
    -_-
    Guest

    Don't cry for me Californiaaaaaaaa

  20. #20
    Vixen From Hell
    Guest

    Very good, you've solved your own problem and regurgitated what I said. I do think he's a moron, and no, not *just* because of his idiotic problem solving. I don't blame him for whats going on here. And yes, as I said, voting for deregulation was not a smart thing.

    And since you apparently don't have any points to make, besides getting all cranky about people who don't like Bush, I'm not going to bother with you any more. Run along.

  21. #21
    Fafhrd
    Guest

    I think you're still misunderstanding, Lake, Starry did say that we were responsible, however, the topic is in regards to George Bush's supposed SOLUTION to our problem, it such total bullshit, and in no way making him seem more intelligent. GPMAgent, I hope your right, because someone had better depose the bastard before his Secretary of Defense starts a war.

    ------------------
    It is a far, far better thing to keep a firm anchor in nonsense than to set out on the troubled waters of thought.

  22. #22
    CocoClown
    Guest

    stage three(the worst kind apparently) energy crisis.
    Don't they have a 'stage four', for when there is absolutely bugger all power at ALL? A touch optimistic I think, and perhaps tempting fate.


    Hang on, I thought you Americans were meant to be REDUCING your CO2 emissions, and now you're talking about building MORE power plants?!

  23. #23
    Agent Monkeysee
    Guest

    Two words:

    Nuclear Power.

    Many's Song, perhaps you can back me up on this?

    Yeah sure the waste sticks around for 10000 years but in the meantime we're not dumping junk into the air and water NOW!

    Actually as far as I know ppl are rallying around the cry that we need more power plants but the restrictive environmental regulations in California would never allow it to happen. They'd have to change the regulations first before they could build anything.

    As for reducing CO<sub>2</sub> emissions? Yeah right, this is the country of the SUV remember.
    ------------------
    "Non serviam"

    Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds
    -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

    [This message has been edited by Agent Monkeysee (edited January 27, 2001).]

    [This message has been edited by Agent Monkeysee (edited January 27, 2001).]

  24. #24
    Lake
    Guest

    Originally posted by Vixen From Hell:
    Very good, you've solved your own problem and regurgitated what I said. I do think he's a moron, and no, not *just* because of his idiotic problem solving. I don't blame him for whats going on here. And yes, as I said, voting for deregulation was not a smart thing.

    And since you apparently don't have any points to make, besides getting all cranky about people who don't like Bush, I'm not going to bother with you any more. Run along.
    You do not blame Bush but you cannot help involve him in your post. Get over it, he is President. Go find some other way to take a cheapshot. I guess you want the Federal Gov't to involve itself in every function of Califoria's problems. You made your own mess.

    And yes, I do get mad a people who like to call Bush names. Hello, McFly. Guess what? He is your President too no matter what you think of him. It is in all our best interests that he does good.

    As for your last sentance. Do the letters F.O. have any meaning to you?

    I think you're still misunderstanding, Lake, Starry did say that we were responsible, however, the topic is in regards to George Bush's supposed SOLUTION to our problem, it such total bullshit, and in no way making him seem more intelligent. GPMAgent, I hope your right, because someone had better depose the bastard before his Secretary of Defense starts a war.
    The solution is conservation and smart growth plans not looking to Bush to solve your problems. How many people living in California right now have a lot of their lights on along with multiple electrical appliances?



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    Lake

  25. #25
    Crion
    Guest

    Originally posted by Natasha:
    Yeah Monkeysee, its the same with Oregon...we're sucking away thier power without the resources to compensate.
    And we aren't liking it one bit. The non-hippies are getting irritated from the prospect of having our rates raised because of shortsightedness in another state.

    The hippies themselves wouldn't give a shit but they hate W. because he's, well, him.

    Damn that stupid fucker..

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