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Thread: T2 FM: Embracing the Enemy (Dec 20, 2000)

  1. #101
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Bohn Museum

    I agree...

    I think EtE is definitely in my Top 5 T2 FM's.

  2. #102
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Far away from you
    Whine about linearity all you want, Embracing the Enemy was a really awesome FM. The big ballroom was insane, even AFTER I learned HOW I was supposed to do it.

  3. #103
    New Member
    Registered: Dec 2002
    Oh yes, this one was great.
    It wasn't as good as previous kfgecko's FM (Bloodstone Prison), but it is still one of my favourite T2 missions...

  4. #104
    New Member
    Registered: Jun 2002

    Embracing the Enemy Question - HELP

    OK - I have just finished Embracing the Enemy (excellent FM). I completed all of the objectives. However, there is one thing bugging me: I have the gourmet cheese, I read Benny's note regarding feeding the mouse and the possibility of it having treasure in its nest, and i can hear the little bugger near the wine cellar. How do i get him to come out or get to his nest? is this even possible?

    a game just never feels 100% complete unless every little nook and cranny is explored. help - before my brain explodes looking for this dang rodent.

    Thanks!

  5. #105
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Finland
    It's been a while since I played this mission... I think the little fella is roaming the basement and you should see him run about. Just drop the cheese near him and then follow him when he runs off to his nest with it.
    Morrgan's Dark Projects: my FMs and FM reviews - 10.03.2008: All for a Night's Sleep updated to v1.1

  6. #106
    New Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    i hadn't seen him running around...just heard him. i'll look a little closer. hopefully i didn't toss a box on top of him.

  7. #107
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2003
    Location: Australia

    Where can I download Fan Mission: Embracing the Enemy?

    I visited fileplant gamespy to download some Thief 1 and 2 mods and one of these was embracing the enemy.zip. Only problem is you have to wait in line to download the file. I can live with that. I wait X amount of minutes (around 50) then the window says the page or file could not be found!

    What's the deal? File Planet is the hardest location to download anything, to much stuffing around.

    Does anyone know where I can download Embracing the Enemy.zip and other Thief 1 and Thief 2 mods without the hassle of File Planet?

    Thankyou!

  8. #108
    Member
    Registered: May 2001
    Location: Finland
    The best places to go are thiefmissions.com and www.keepofmetalandgold.com. Both sites have that mission available, and downloading is hassle-free.

    - Mika L

  9. #109
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada
    I see Mika's taken care of your question. Welcome to the forum, Tintin!

  10. #110
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2001
    Location: Knoxville, TN
    And what a great mission to be downloading.

  11. #111
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2003
    Location: Australia
    Thanks guys for your help and the welcome!

    This forum is great for taffers!

  12. #112
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003

    Embracing the Enemy question

    Great mission, really enjoyed it, even if I did get stuck because I didn't see Alex's rope. I wanted to know about the little girl in the scrolls - is she supposed to be there somewhere? I found this doll with a name, and assumed that I would be able to give it back to her to cheer her up, but couldn't find anywhere she could be hiding.
    Also, I am 270 loot short out of the 2985.
    Is there a loot map and walkthrough website for FMs?

  13. #113
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada
    The best place to find out if a loot list or walkthrough exists for a particular FM is Cheap Missions Either search for a mission or just go directly to the list of the latest missions. Along the top of the page there's be places where you can click on "Walkthroughs" or "Loot Lists" and it will bring up a list of all the missions that Jason either has them posted for or has links for. The majority of FMs don't have walkthroughs or loot lists, though, so in that case, you just need to post here and see if someone can help you.

    I don't recall any little girl in this particular mission but it's not one I've played recently, so I may have forgotten.

  14. #114
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    There is backstory about the girl to give a good reason for certain actions -- but you don't find her.

  15. #115
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003

    Problematic

    [Nightwalker, or Anyone]

    I'm totally stumped. I completed all the objectives and returned (with Alex) back to exactly where I started... but the mission won't end!

    I double and triple checked; all the mission objectives are checked off except Don't Kill Servants or Guards (because it's not technically over; I certainly killed no one except the one I was required to kill) -- and the last objective, which is to return to the vineyard when "everything else" is done. Which it is.

    So why doesn't it end?

    Second point: Ghost is really problematical in this FM. I'm shifting to spoiler mode to continue....

    spoiler:
    First of all, you're required to stop Alex from assassinating Montague. But how? You can't go down and talk him out of it. The only thing possible is to knock him out... which you must do from a distance (you can't be seen by Montague), so a gas arrow is the only option. This is an anti-ghost action, though it's required by the objective.

    Second, before even firing the gas arrow, you must cut your way through a banner. Even if there were some way to transmigrate, that, too, would be a ghost bust -- save that it's secondarily required by the objective (I tried sitting next to the banner for a moment or two, and Alex rushed in and did his dirty deed, ending the game for me).

    Third, after you take care of Alex, you get a new objective to kill Montague yourself. Another ghost bust, except that it's an objective.

    So I don't know how to evaluate my ghostly performance in Embracing the Enema. I can honestly say I didn't knock out anyone but Alex and didn't kill anyone but Montague, I didn't damage any property except that pesky banner (required), and I didn't cause any AI to alert beyond the "musta been rats" phase. I think it's technically a ghost... but it's not aesthetically a ghost, and I'm not sure whether I should think of it as having ghosted the mission. But it's not my fault! The mission is designed that way.


    In any case, I got 2495 out of 2995 loot, got 3 out of 8 pockets, 5 locks, and the game-time was 2:46:03.

    But I can't make the game end! Any suggestions?

    Thanks,

    Dafydd

  16. #116

    Re: Problematic

    Originally posted by Dafydd
    spoiler:
    Embracing the Enema
    Sorry, I just had to point this out

    Have you dropped Alex in the vineyard area? Maybe only this does trigger the end? Otherwise, if all other objectives are checked, I'd call it a day and blame a bug being responsible for the mission not ending.
    As far as I remember, there's really no way to ghost this mission.
    spoiler:
    When I entered the room where the assassination was about to take place, I didn't use a gas arrow but immediately dropped down from the beams and blackjacked Alex. This works, as well.

  17. #117
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003

    Ending

    [Eshaktaar]

    I got to the vineyard with Alex and dropped him there, and that's when I got the chime, when that objective was ticked off.

    But the game didn't end.

    spoiler:
    When I entered the room where the assassination was about to take place, I didn't use a gas arrow but immediately dropped down from the beams and blackjacked Alex. This works, as well.
    Well, yeah -- but that busts a ghost, too!

    Hm... the more I think about it, the more I think this mission is not technically ghostable, since only two of the three ghostbusting actions is literally required by an objective. But even if the third were required, it wouldn't FEEL like a ghost when you have to do all this.

    According to the Final Rules on ghost, you're technically clean if you only did something because a mission requirement nakedly and literally forced you to do. Embracing the Enemy (yes, the last time was deliberate ) is perhaps technically ghostable, depending on how loose your definition is; but I guess my own standard is stricter than that.

    To me, a technically unghostable mission would be, for example, one that required you to steal a gem that sits in a brightly lit room with a guard staring directly at it, or directly at the only entrance, making it impossible to steal the gem without at the very least alerting the guard. If BJing or killing the guard were not one of the objectives, then you'd just be out of luck trying to ghost.

    This is why I'm now say Embracing the Enemy is not ghostable, for the narrowest of technical reasons:

    spoiler:
    Because there is no actual objective to slash the banner. It's absolutely required to complete the mission, but it's not listed under the objectives, as stopping Alex and killing Montague both are.


    (It could be made ghostable by a slight change to the wording of the objective:
    spoiler:
    Add the phrase "no matter what property you have to destroy to stop Alex," or somesuch.
    That would make it completely legal, in my opinion.)

    So I guess I came as close to ghosting this FM as possible, but not close enough actually to say I ghosted it.

    Sigh. My first ghosting failure in the last seven or eight FMs, and it wasn't even my fault!

    Dafydd

  18. #118
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Lost in the BSP...
    I guess I don't see how you can say you failed, when it's unghostable to begin with. At the least, you should feel good about the fact that you did everything possible to not cause a ghosting failure, but to finish the mission it was inevitable.

    I would be proud and honored to have achieved such a feat. I have to say on the other hand that I don't have the patience nor probably the skill to ghost any mission, so I envy you.

  19. #119
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003

    My secret...

    [Hit Deity]

    My secret is -- lots of reloading!

    "Hm... I wonder if I can sneak around this way.... Aack! They saw me! Reload. All right, then how about this way.... Argh! Wow, bloody. Reload. Wait, maybe if I run instead of sneak -- eeeew, reload! -- or else maybe I can rope up to here... hey, good grief, I made it. SAVE! SAVE QUICKLY! SAVE TWICE!"

    Dafydd

  20. #120
    Member
    Registered: Mar 1999
    Location: California, USA
    Been a long time.

    Anyways, as for the mission ending, this is a bad thing I should have done. It has to do with the location I chose the player to drop Alex. To end your mission, walk away from the vineyard (go into the winery, up the hill, or near the cart) then come back. Then your mission with end.

    As for ghosting, what if the designer told you this: I specifically designed the mission to force the player to slash the banner (I made it with a bounding box to block the progress). Does that absolve the ghosters of the guilt?

  21. #121
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Enköping, Sweden
    Would you rather break a window?
    spoiler:
    If you go to Montague's bedroom (I think) you can smash a window and mantle up on a door, through the window and come out at the tower. From there you can climb down Alex's rope and come in that way.

    It can be done, I've done it.

  22. #122
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2002
    Location: Bellevue, NE USA
    How do you get into the tower? I've smashed every window, and chopped up every tapestry i could find, or get to. I can't get up to the windows in montague's room. I can hear him sniffling and humming in the hallway outside the library, and in his room, so i know i'm on the right track.

  23. #123
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada
    Have you actually seen him yet? If not, then
    spoiler:
    you need to look for a room at the top of a short flight of stairs. Inside there's a ceiling hatch. Head up there.


    If you've already done that, then
    spoiler:
    you need to head out the patio doors, climb the rope arrow and find the way into the tower from out there. Hint: You can climb some of the vines in this mission.

  24. #124
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2002
    Location: Bellevue, NE USA
    Ok got it. Thanks nightwalker.

  25. #125
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: East Coast Elite :D

    Embracing the enemy

    Can anyone point me to this FM? It was recommended, but I couldnt find on thiefmissions, the keep of metal and gold, thief-the circle or anywhere else for that matter, any ideas? Im looking for simple FMs' that are just plain old sounds, guards etc, maybe a castle or 2, but not to much customization. Standard weapons are a +, any suggestions?

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