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Thread: T2 FM: Embracing the Enemy (Dec 20, 2000)

  1. #126
    Thiefmissions.com
    Moderator

    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Houston, Tx., USA
    A search at thiefmissions.com for either "enbracing" or "enemy" reveals:
    http://thiefmissions.com/info.cgi?m=embrace

  2. #127
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Bohn Museum
    EtE is a fantastic mission, one of my favorites... good choice! But why weren't you able to find it at cheapmissions?

  3. #128
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: East Coast Elite :D
    Lol, lame. I was able to find it before, but the download wasnt working(would open a "the page cannot be displayed" page, I figured the file had been lost or somthing.

    Thx guys

  4. #129
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2008
    Location: desert foothills
    okay here's my question about this fun fm........i have the cheese and see the mouse; but Garrett won't drop the cheese for the mouse. I've tried everything i can think of to drop or throw the gourmet cheese; have read the note and am chasing the mouse around the cellar but can't give him the cheese. Where am i going wrong.........anyone know?

    thanks........this is a great mission! lots of fun and neat places to explore.......but this darn cheese is driving me crazy........why won't Garrett drop it??

  5. #130
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2008
    Location: desert foothills
    alright........you all have permission to come smack me upside the head..........I right-clicked and right-clicked and Garrett would NOT drop that cheese............The r key does it, doesn't it???? somebody save me from myself...........

  6. #131
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2008
    Location: on a mission to civilize
    Quote Originally Posted by Beeba View Post
    alright........you all have permission to come smack me upside the head..........I right-clicked and right-clicked and Garrett would NOT drop that cheese............The r key does it, doesn't it???? somebody save me from myself...........
    In the immortal words of Wedgie the Pirate: "ARRRRRRRRRRRR"

  7. #132
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2008
    Location: desert foothills
    lol.........thanks, Queue.....I should have known better.........I LOVE pirates!

  8. #133
    Archivist
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Museum of the Ancients
    After watching a nice classic briefing (how I miss them in today's FM), our friend Garrett arrives outside the castle walls in a vineyard for a next adventure. After stealing a priced trinket from Lord Rumsford it appears that the buyer, Lord Montague doesn't have the amount of money (yet) to pay in full. Meanwhile another Thief is hired to assassinate Lord Montague. To secure his payment Garrett heads to the Lord's castle to prevent the Thief from completing his mission.

    An excellent intro to a mission that, to my surprise, has aged very little. It was exactly as I remembered from playing it seven years earlier.
    The concept of following another Thief through a castle is quite unique. It makes up for some excellent gameplay, together with plenty of opportunities for Garrett to apply his skills, good placing of equipment and a clear difference in difficulty settings, something not seen in many other FMs. Expect more enemies and objectives when playing on expert difficulty.
    Playing on Expert is definitely the most rewarding experience. I also tried ghosting and while not being entirely succesful (had to make one knockout), I had a great time sneaking my way through the winery and castle, making full use of equipment such as scouting orb and moss arrows.

    Along the way there are some well-written scrolls around that variate from being hilarious to useful in the way of providing hints. The story element is quite good with a unexpected plot and several scripted events.
    Don't expect any fancy special effects or custom stuff in a mission like this, dating from the early days of dromedding, but nevertheless the author has done an excellent job with the limited resources from the original Thief 2. It's something that many of today's authors can learn from.
    The author (Kung Fu Gecko) found it's inspiration in the originial T2 mission Blackmail, and while not being able to match it's level design, and being a bit linear, it's as complete as an original Looking Glass developed mission should be.

    Another Thief as a antagonist, a solid story with a strong plot, excellent gameplay, clear difference in difficulty setting, good ol' Benny on the watch, and good voice acting by Loanstar (who did Garrett's voice at the time before SlyFoxx took over). Also, few authors these days take their time to include maps and a briefing. +1 for seeing this included.
    Only misser is that the game didn't ended for me as it should, but still a solid and entertaining mission overall that gave me a great time playing. One to recommend.

    Well done Kung Fu Gecko.

    Stats
    Difficulty: Expert
    Loot found: 2615 out of 2895

    A technical note: when I tried the mission at first, the K-Lite Codec Pack I have installed conflicted with the briefing movie and the game crashed. Opening the Codec Tweak Tool and disabling 'ffdshow' fixed the problem.

  9. #134
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Bohn Museum
    This is one of my favorite early missions, and was the one which most inspired the gameplay in Burrick's Head Inn.

  10. #135
    NewDark 64ģ Contest Winner
    Registered: Jul 2005
    Location: Locked Inside Dromed
    I've been playing through these old missions, and I think this was the first that allowed you to interact with the environment so much like knocking out the power to the lights and giving the food to the mouse to get a piece of loot. I liked the ending fortress the best and ghosting through there with the unconscious body of the assassin.

  11. #136
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2010
    Location: Dark Bucharest
    didn't have the opportunity to feed that mouse, because I arrowed him before (thinking he might have swallowed the other gewlery). But still, I don't believe that explains my 2150 out of 2900 of loot (on hard).

  12. #137
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    I just completed this mission. It was fun. I especially like the use of light and shadows. The lighting is very fair and not too tough, forcing you to think in a few areas in order to avoid alerting the whole place. For the assassination objective, I just knocked the guy out and set him on the fire.

  13. #138
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Malmö, Sweden
    I can't believe I have overlooked this mission until now. It's freaking ancient, and very good. Gameplay is fun, readables are helpful/enjoyable/disturbing/humorous and of good quality. Great whining from Benny that he always wakes up somewhere with a lump on his head.

    I have played it twice in a row now because the first time, I had already killed Squeaky (I HATE RATS. DIE, VERMIN!) before having read about him or found the gourmet cheese. So I had to see what that was about. Second time around I was not as thorough with searching everywhere so I did not find the slow-fall potion. This complicated matters for getting the last bit of loot, the diamond on the platform you drop down to close to the watchtower. My solution? An old Thief trick - I carried Montague's stiff corpse to the drop spot, dropped off while looking down and dropped the corpse just before I landed.

    Loose end: In the same hallway that has a staircase going up to a dining room with some loot, there is another staircase going down that leads to an unfrobbable wooden door. Is that just a decoration or can it be opened somehow? If not, was there a plan for a larger basement area that was scrapped later?


    BTW, I get a weird image in my head from reading the name Kung Fu Gecko...

  14. #139
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2004
    I have wondered about this.... there's some mention in a readable that a young girl is "missing".. anyone ever find anything about that?

  15. #140
    Member
    Registered: Mar 1999
    Location: California, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by jiansonz View Post
    I can't believe I have overlooked this mission until now. It's freaking ancient, and very good. Gameplay is fun, readables are helpful/enjoyable/disturbing/humorous and of good quality. Great whining from Benny that he always wakes up somewhere with a lump on his head.
    ....
    Loose end: In the same hallway that has a staircase going up to a dining room with some loot, there is another staircase going down that leads to an unfrobbable wooden door. Is that just a decoration or can it be opened somehow? If not, was there a plan for a larger basement area that was scrapped later?


    BTW, I get a weird image in my head from reading the name Kung Fu Gecko...
    Good to hear that someone is still enjoying the level.

    If I'm thinking of the same door you're talking about, that unfrobbable door represented access to the "rest of the castle". It was never intended to be implemented. I was originally going to represent even more inaccessible areas so the castle seemed bigger; but of course ran out of time.

    There were also other game play ideas I had that I just never got around too.

    Btw did the "gas Alex" thing work for you? That was the hardest scripting sequence and I tried very hard to make it work properly.

    Did you notice the moments of "just catching a glimpse" of Alex?
    My Thief 2 missions: Embracing the Enemy, Creature Clash 2, Warehouse 51
    My Thief 1 missions: Bloodstone Prison,The Library, Creature Clash

    "And dost the blackjack say to the knoggin, 'be still, for I shall bonk you?'
    Nay! 'Tis the allies of darkness and surprise that belet club meet skull for glorious bonkitude."

    - Tennents of the Master Bonker

  16. #141
    Member
    Registered: Mar 1999
    Location: California, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by Eiji View Post
    I have wondered about this.... there's some mention in a readable that a young girl is "missing".. anyone ever find anything about that?
    You never actually find the girl but it should become clear what has been happening to the girl when you get to Montagues closet......
    My Thief 2 missions: Embracing the Enemy, Creature Clash 2, Warehouse 51
    My Thief 1 missions: Bloodstone Prison,The Library, Creature Clash

    "And dost the blackjack say to the knoggin, 'be still, for I shall bonk you?'
    Nay! 'Tis the allies of darkness and surprise that belet club meet skull for glorious bonkitude."

    - Tennents of the Master Bonker

  17. #142
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Malmö, Sweden
    Quote Originally Posted by kfgecko View Post
    Btw did the "gas Alex" thing work for you? That was the hardest scripting sequence and I tried very hard to make it work properly.
    Yes, nearly perfectly. When I was in the attic and had slashed the banner to the office and peeked in, I actually noticed someone fidgeting in the darkness outside the transparent door. I was pretty sure the guy in the office was Montague so I figured Alex would be on his way.
    (During my first playthrough, I actually had no idea if Alex' actions would be on a timer from the beginning but I played as if I had plenty of time, and hoped that events would be triggered by me getting to certain spots, which was correct.)
    So I readied a gas arrow (even the briefing movie hinted that this would be the way to do it, and that even affected my pre-game shopping!), crept a bit forward and hit him with it when he entered the door. Only after he was down and M. had fled out the door did I move forward far enough to trigger Garrett's comment on the situation.



    Quote Originally Posted by kfgecko View Post
    Did you notice the moments of "just catching a glimpse" of Alex?
    Yes, they worked nicely. Once in the basement and once in the library. Well, actually, I watched him for quite some time when he was in the library.
    Last edited by jiansonz; 28th Sep 2013 at 18:52.

  18. #143
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2004
    Location: Indiana
    Quote Originally Posted by kfgecko View Post
    Good to hear that someone is still enjoying the level.
    Don't be silly, I've played this missing several times over the years. Thiefmissions.com is showing 15 downloads in the last 30 day's alone.

    I can remember the first time or two I played it, I still didn't quite get the concept of thief. It took me hours because I ran out of weapons in the first few minutes. Well, I just re-played it through and it took me about an hour and, minus one gas arrows and 100 loot, I did pretty well. I could go faster, but this is Thief not Doom.

    BTW, I was set on killing Montague without using any of my tools. I knocked him out, but couldn't think of any water to drop him in. So I carried him to his elevator and dropped him under it then lowered the elevator, nope didn't work. So I ran back upstairs and carried down all the crates and dropped them in the elevator shaft, then dropped him on top of them... Nope, didn't work again. So I said screw it and dropped him down the sewer hatch a couple times till he died.
    Last edited by Jitz; 27th Sep 2013 at 21:37.

  19. #144
    bikerdude
    Guest
    A mod might want to remove the word new from the title.
    Last edited by bikerdude; 28th Sep 2013 at 12:53.

  20. #145
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2006
    Location: France, Paris
    I've finished this wonderful mission yesterday, everything is nice, design, story, objectives, sneaking paths.

    I've had problem with "kill Montague" objective because I've reached the donjon before going to Montague office. So I've knocked "Montague clone" that you're supposed to kill later. At this point i didn't know he was Montague, i thought he was sherrif or police chief. After exploring all of the donjon, i've reached the back of Montague's office and I've seen Alex waiting here. At this point, i've understood that it wasn't the right way to do the mission, so i've came back in front of Montague's office, gas Alex from the attic, and after Montague escape, i coulnd't find him ! I've searched everywhere, and finally i've understood that I've already knocked him out in the donjon.
    Too bad Montague is already in the donjon, it breaks the story, you should have teleported him in the donjon only after his escape. And the back of his office where Alex is, shouldn't be reachable.
    Anyway, this is a great mission \o/

  21. #146
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Location: Heidelberg

    Kinda ashamed to admit: I played this very nice mission today for the first time (I downloaded it years ago but somehow never managed to start it...). Nice story, even though I have the nagging feeling that Garrett was made to overreact a bit; in my book he's alright to take revenge for a trap, but not by killing. I liked the carefully laid readables, not too scarce, not too overwhelming - just the right amount. Also: probably it was among the first missions to develop the Benny cult... On the flip side, a small flaw in the level design: the lack of an obvious way (could have been modelled with an unpickable door) to "officially" reach the inner courtyard and the defense tower from the main building.

    I tried to blindly supreme it, but after failing to reach the middle floor I had to resort to BJ (three times), at least to see what's past that point. Just finished it - in my maiden run I have some 300 loot unaccounted for, I'm giving myself a couple of more hours to locate all.

    My thoughts with respect to ghosting:
    • the mission is definitely impossible to "perfect supreme" thief. Gourmet cheese would be unnecessary pickup, busting supreme.
    • to avoid grabbing the slow-fall but take the diamond, I used Alex and Montagues bodies to fall without damage, but I think this counts as engine exploit -> further loot to be skipped for supreme
    • quite challenging, if not impossible, to steal within ghost rules the masks on lower-floor well-lit display with the guard facing them.
    • the same for the purse on the front door guard.
    • when following the intended path: banner slashing busts both ghost modes, while entering the office requires dosing two lights - otherwise I can't imagine how on earth one can sneak past the guard by the door.
    • it's possible to stop Alex unconventionally, but at my superficial first attempt I had to smuggle two crates in the west wing, which brings me to the biggest challenge of this mission:
    • I am still trying to ghost my way through middle floor towards library, I'll probably give up soon. For supreme, one must travel at least once more (to return the private reserve key), not mentioning crate smuggling (in and out) for the unconventional way.


    I got first alerts while sneaking past the two patrolling guards in the cellar with the very tall stills -> when leaving that room, even when the sight of the guard that was patrolling towards me (there is alweays one!) was supposed to be blocked by the stills, which I guess they are drawn incorrectly (between them and wall, I get stucked about half a metre away from them, so probably they are physically located in such a way that the guards do indeed have a free line of sight towards the exit).

    PS: I don't consider triggering the alarm after dealing with Alex a ghost bust. It is something scripted and not the result of Garret being spotted by AI
    Last edited by ultravioletu; 21st Jan 2017 at 18:12.

  22. #147
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2011
    can anybody tell me where i can find alex??

  23. #148
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2020
    Location: Germany
    Wow, a mission made in the year 2000 and itīs still so good! I really enjoyed it. You must have been the first guy to have the idea with the mouse, getting gold from it if you bring it some tasty cheese

    The only thing about this mission I didnīt like was the left open part with the little girl. I know the readables were removed cause it was a too hardcore subject and it is clear that the girl was abused, but then it would have been better to leave out the subject completely. Remove the diary in which the servant talks about the girl, remove the doll and the handcuffs from the closet. Now it feels like I missed sth. and it is also not clear if the guy killed the girl or if sheīs still alive. Could have added that sheīs still somewhere in there and you take the diary to a servant/guard so that the truth comes out. Now like this it feels sour cause you couldnīt do anything about it and no one will know the truth, except for you.

    Other than that I think itīs a really great mission

  24. #149
    Member
    Registered: Mar 1999
    Location: California, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by Samantha1 View Post
    Wow, a mission made in the year 2000 and itīs still so good! I really enjoyed it. You must have been the first guy to have the idea with the mouse, getting gold from it if you bring it some tasty cheese

    The only thing about this mission I didnīt like was the left open part with the little girl. I know the readables were removed cause it was a too hardcore subject and it is clear that the girl was abused, but then it would have been better to leave out the subject completely. Remove the diary in which the servant talks about the girl, remove the doll and the handcuffs from the closet. Now it feels like I missed sth. and it is also not clear if the guy killed the girl or if sheīs still alive. Could have added that sheīs still somewhere in there and you take the diary to a servant/guard so that the truth comes out. Now like this it feels sour cause you couldnīt do anything about it and no one will know the truth, except for you.

    Other than that I think itīs a really great mission
    I just happened to see an email notification for this post. I'm glad you enjoyed the mission.

    I hope that the Katie portion didn't mess up the experience for you. I'm trying to remember now because it's been so long... but I think in her diary Katie's says she's going to run away, which she does. The clues to Katie's part of the story were there to get you as the player to paint Montague as an evil person, not just a double crosser. I wanted the player to have this progression of realization: he double crossed Alex, he double crossed you, he's a selfish/terrible boss, he's a child abuser, he's evil and deserves to die for all of the above reason together!

    It's really hard to fool-proof the mechanisms that script the Alex appearances; so I'm hoping most people experienced it they way it was intended.

    BTW, did anyone find the dead skeleton that fell off the wall in a dark corner?

    The mouse was my favorite addition to the level.

  25. #150
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2020
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by kfgecko View Post
    I just happened to see an email notification for this post. I'm glad you enjoyed the mission.

    I hope that the Katie portion didn't mess up the experience for you. I'm trying to remember now because it's been so long... but I think in her diary Katie's says she's going to run away, which she does. The clues to Katie's part of the story were there to get you as the player to paint Montague as an evil person, not just a double crosser. I wanted the player to have this progression of realization: he double crossed Alex, he double crossed you, he's a selfish/terrible boss, he's a child abuser, he's evil and deserves to die for all of the above reason together!

    It's really hard to fool-proof the mechanisms that script the Alex appearances; so I'm hoping most people experienced it they way it was intended.

    BTW, did anyone find the dead skeleton that fell off the wall in a dark corner?

    The mouse was my favorite addition to the level.
    Ah I see. Katies diary was removed completely from the fanmission according to the forum here. At least I didnīt find it anywhere, only her doll was in the disgusting clostet. The only hint that montague is a child abuser was in the servants note to the guard. She told him to check montagues closet because she heard some whimpering from there and she fears that he might have to do sth. with the disappearance of katie. From out of it you could think that katie might have run away, but it could also be that montague killed her, so for me it was left open and I didnīt get to know what happened to her. And I couldnīt help her, but at least I got to kill that bastard

    The idea with alex I found super refreshing, thats not sth. you see in every fanmission. Pretty great!

    I did not find that dead skeleton that fell of the wall Where exactly was that?

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