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Thread: Old Thief Fans vs. New Thief fans

  1. #1
    Sypha Nadon
    Guest

    Old Thief Fans vs. New Thief fans

    Greetings, fellow taffers. As you can see, E am still fairly new to this business ov posting Thief comments on thee internet. However, E have read over many ov thee old posts on this forum and have realized that a large portion ov Thief fans(usually thee older ones) prefer THief: TDP over Thief: TMA. E have a few comments to make about this. E have been playing Thief for about a year now. E never got thee original Thief. Rather, E started with Thief Gold, which E very much enjoyed, and a few months later E purchased Thief 2, which E enjoyed even more.Both games are excellent, butter E still prefer thee sequel. However, many of thee original Thief fans, those who got into thief when it first came out, seem to always hype up thee first game and disregard thee second game. They seem to have reasons why they do not like thee second game as much as thee first: no hammerites, absence of thee undead, no trickster-ish type villian, don't like thee mechanical enemies, story isn't as good, etc... Well, in defense of Thief 2, E will now respond to some ov these arguments. First off, it is obvious people prefer thee hammerites to thee Mechanists, which seems odd to me seeing that thee two factions are very much alike in certain ways. I've made my argument before about why E believe thee Mechanists are better, so E won't go into that here. Now, in response to other arguments made by thee older fans:
    a. abscence of thee undead: It is true that thee undead play a lesser role in Thief 2. Some of the older fans object to this. E myself do not. E would like to say here that E am as macabre and gothic as they come, but I've always felt that thee Thief stages with thee undead were usually thee weaker stages (although E did enjoy RTC). The undead are in Thief 2, and encountering them in that game can be more suspenseful because they show up at unexpected times (such as in Sheriff Truart's house, or Shoalsgate Prison). Thief 1 is gothic, Thief 2 is industrial. To all you Thief fans who quote thee haunts, get over it! Also, there are many stages in Thief 2 that provoke a certain creepy atmosphere, paricularily Trail of Blood. E find that stage just as creepy as RTC, especially at the end.
    b. Trickster: Many ov thee older Thief fans seem to be obsessed with thee Trickster, always quoting him on posts and whatnot. E thought thee Trickster was a subpar villian, just a washed-up god wanting revenge. Very cliche. Karras is a better villian because you aren't really sure what his motivation is, and the game never really tells. You have to wonder why he wants to destroy all humans, all nature. It's more interesting.
    c. Many people complain about thee mechanical devices in Thief 2. E think they add suspense to thee game, more strategy. E believe that thee children of Karras are more intimidating then haunts. While they do have flaws, you can't just go up to one and start slashing at it with a sword, like you can with a haunt. Thee children require strategy to get by, which is why they are tougher opponents. Their voices are grating, E have to admit.
    d. The story: Thief 2's story has more plot twists then thee first game. In thee first game, the story doesn't begin until mission 6, and much of it after that is just "go to different locations, steal thee talismans, get thee eye"...more like a scavenger hunt then a story, h'mm?
    e. Thief 2 also has better graphics and better stages. Thief 1 has excellent, beautiful stages, but thee stages in Thief 2 made me feel like E was in another world, particularily thee Life of the Party stage. Thee people in Thief 2 have more realistic faces and move in a more human manner.
    Please do not accuse me ov insulting Thief:TDP, fore it is an excellent game, one of thee most brilliant computer games ever. Thief 2 just brings it to the next stage, as Thief 3 will hopefully do. Maybe I'm just a newbie with no clue, but E think that thee old school thief fans would be a little more respectful towards Thief 2 and thee new fans of Thief. E do not mean to insult thee old school fans, E respect your opinion. Brother and sister Taffers, can't we all just get along? Well, I've ranted enough for now, and my hands are sore. Until next time, farewell.

  2. #2
    Doc_Brown
    Guest

    Very in depth post, Sypha, I applaud you. Allow me to offer my perspective from the opposite soap box (ie why Thief is better than it's sequel).

    A. I don't think it's the simple presence of the undead that we Dark Projecties crave, but the sheer numbers of them present at a time. A zombie, tho startling to bump into, doesn't have the same effect as being backed into a corner by three of them (and knowing there's two more around the corner). The undead, as society has defined them, come in hoards, and that's what we crave. We can defeat a few zombies, but a hoard will devour us if we don't stay on our toes.

    B. The problem with Karras lies in the fact that his actions are like that of a terrorist. Whereas the Trickster wanted to return darkness and fear to the land (never really defined, leaving it open to interpretation of the imagination), Karras simply wanted to take over the world. Returning fear to the world is much more compelling than taking it over.

    C. Simply put, Dark Projecties like the gothic feel better than the steamtechno. We first knew the world of Thief as gothic, and the sudden, seemingly irreversible change to technological not only is displeasing, but disturbing (does this mean Thief 3 will be even more technologically advanced?). Bumping into a walking stove with a cannon for an arm just seems out of place after creeping thru a zombie infested crypt.

    D. The whole point of Garrett's involvment in the story is that he really doesn't want to be involved at all. He's an anti-hero who lives to steal. So what if some god is returning darkness to the land (actually, wouldn't Garrett prefer that?). The only reason he get's involved is because it got personal. He wants revenge, he doesn't want to save the world. That said, the story is set up so that, gradually, Garret is pulled away from his secluded life and into the bigger picture. He doesn't want to, but that's what happens, and the levels are set up to show this shift.

    E. Well, I can't compete with you there. Thief did a marvellous job of conveying real world environments, but Thief 2 did an even better job by showing us the world outside of those real world environments. And, naturally, a sequel will look better than it's predecessor.

    Well, I guess I'm done ranting as well. Sorry if I misrepresented the Dark Projecties. If so, just speak up.

    ------------------
    "The keys to Thief's future may be in ION's hands, but the lockpicks are in the gamers'."

    [This message has been edited by Doc_Brown (edited November 04, 2000).]

  3. #3
    CocoClown
    Guest

    I tried to read the first post thoroughly, but the strange spellings have somewhat thrown me...

    I would like to say one thing. I found Karras's ideas, and illusions, to be quite compelling. I loved wandering round Soulforge listening to him justify his actions to himself, because he believed that it was right.

    As for the rest? I'll ignore it and go back to throwing stones at dog walkers.

    [This message has been edited by CocoClown (edited November 04, 2000).]

  4. #4
    Naartjie
    Guest

    Hmmm....I must disagree with point b.

    Tell me, what is more cliched- an evil, insane villian wanting to take over the world/city/country, or an arguable evil nature god living on earth in human form, wanting to return fear and darkness to the land and keep things the way they always used to be?

    You decide

    ------------------
    Join us! Join us NOOOooooOOOWWWWWWwwwww!!!

  5. #5
    Zantie
    Guest

    Ummm...
    The first one?

  6. #6
    Goliath The Thief
    Guest

    Amen Naartjie

    Even if I'm new in here, I started playing Thief TDP in first.
    And God, I hate those metallic constructions... not very cool...
    However, what I liked from T2 is the return of Viktoria. It gave me back some hope on a return to the ancient ways Thief:TDP used...

    Anyway... it's my opinion...

    ------------------
    "Praise to the Trickster!... Manfool!"

    [This message has been edited by Goliath The Thief (edited November 04, 2000).]

  7. #7
    TTLG Server Goddess
    Gone, but not forgotten

    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Out of my mind...

    Originally posted by CocoClown:
    I tried to read the first post thoroughly, but the strange spellings have somewhat thrown me...
    Has anybody asked...? 'cause I gotta know...

    Sypha, why do you talk (type) that way? Do you speak in the same manner? Have you always done this, or is it something you have developed recently, or just for the benefit of the ttlg community? Is English your first language? I notice from your profile that you are from Rhode Island (although this may just be my interpretation of what was meant by R.I., and I admittedly I may have assumed wrong) but, this fact offers no solid indication as to your country of origin. Although it is my feeling that this manner of "speaking" is entirely voluntary on your part, or is without cultural influence (again, an assumption) I'm just curious what your motivation is, and what reaction are you hoping to get from those who read it? Do you frequently find people extremely irritated by it, possibly instilled with a sense of animosity toward you from the beginning, one that might cloud whatever feeling they might normally get from the content of your posts? or do they not say so? Was this the anticipated result?

    As I said, it's more a matter of curiosity...

    ------------------
    Monkeys do not waltz on the rooftops of St. Petersburg

  8. #8
    Doc_Brown
    Guest

    Said the lady with the confusing signature.

    ------------------
    "The keys to Thief's future may be in ION's hands, but the lockpicks are in the gamers'."

  9. #9
    Sypha Nadon
    Guest

    Friends, a word regarding my slightly unorthodox spelling style:
    In thee 60's/70's there was a group ov British performance artists named COUM TRANSMISSIONS. Their leader, a man by thee name ov Genesis P-Orridge (Who formed THROBBING GRISTLE & PSYCHIC TV, 2 very good industrial music groups) took it upon himself to spell certain words differently in an attempt to shake up thee control process. E=I, Thee=The, Butter=but, Dearset=dearest, ov=of, and so forth. E am just employing this style ov spelling in an attempt to set my posts apart from the others. You should try it, it's very liberating! Also, E do not speak or write this way in reality. And yes, MsLedd, E am from Rhode Island. There is no antagonism on my part towards any fellow taffer. Well, E hope this clears everything up. E hope more people read this posting so E don't have to keep repeating myself!


    [This message has been edited by Sypha Nadon (edited November 04, 2000).]

    [This message has been edited by Sypha Nadon (edited November 04, 2000).]

  10. #10
    MaD-SaM
    Guest

    Pointless new thief fan posting. too much to read so I never bothered reading. Yes the old fan's prefer thief 1 and some hate thief 2 (well do not like it much) sadly... Thief 1 is a game that will never leave my HD... I still play it. completed it more times than I can remember...

  11. #11
    Previously Important
    Registered: Nov 1999
    Location: Caer Weasel, Uelekevu

    I'm sorry, I don't do this sort of thing as a rule, but:

    Will you please cut that out? Goddamn. It's bad enough having to wade through the mangled English and typos in the average post without having to scrape my eyes across some unholy bullshit that was perpetrated on purpose. People who type faster than their fingers really ought to I can forgive. People who don't speak English very well I do more than forgive: I applaud their effort to struggle through what is probably one of the weirder languages on the planet. But what you do is really, really pissing me off.

    Is this some sort of Code? Some kind of "Ooo, Look at Meee with my Eccentric Phrasing and Irritating Spelling"? When you prance around these forums, do you see this sort of asinine language popping up all over the place, or did you just decide that the world was finally ready for the most annoying mannerisms since Steve Urkel?

    No word of a lie, my eyes started to hurt after I ran up against that "E" for the fourth or fifth time. Seriously, cut it the fuck out. Can you dig that?

    Insta-Translate: E think that yor bullshit haz got to stop. E cannot recall thee last time E was brought to thee point ov Fury by an Idiot, but E do remember that thee Idiot who last pushed all thee wrong buttons was planted with its head firmly lodged in thee Rhode Island Home for thee Terminally Irritating. Ov all thee things to waste yor tiny little mind on, you had to go and pick thee very thing which is guaranteed to drive thee rest of us absolutely spare.

    Here's my advice: If you're trying to awe us with your eccentricities, shut the fuck up. If you're trying to be all cutesy and pseudo-old english, shut the fuck up. If you honestly think that the first person pronoun in English is "E" and the definite article is "thee", shut the fuck up and go read a goddamned book.

    I don't know whether to smack you for disturbing the even tenor of my ways with such puerile drivel or give you a medal for being the person who took the fewest posts to drive the poor old Gingerbread Man to the point of sputtering rage. Maybe I'll just smack you with the medal and then ask Muzzie if I can borrow a Cray to ram up your ass.

    I don't even want to get into the opinions you proffer. Opinions are opinions, and I don't give any grief for opinions, no matter how retarded and inbred the dicksmack spouting them might be. I agree with you on some points, I disagree with you on others. At least, I think I do. I don't rightly know, seeing as how it's so fucking irritating to read that shit.


    Bha. There's a lot more I want to rant about, but I'll let it stand at that for now. But, I'll be back if the mood should suddenly strike me.



  12. #12
    Varyk
    Guest

    I knew it! I knew it! I know it sounds suspect after the fact, but when reading your post, Sypha, the first thing that I thought was, "eek, that sounds like those old Psychic TV fliers!" LOL! Very atmospheric.

    I met, actually had dinner with Genesis and his lady friend (Paula? don't remember her name precisely) at Maggie Ingals house here in Columbus, Ohio, many years back, PTV were playing at Staches. You might know Maggie more as Nema who published some magickal texts in the area of Thelema and Ma'at. Anyhow, Genesis is surely a charmer, despite his feral appearance. And of course, we all remember his appearance in Modern Primitives. What he did in the realm of body mods still makes me cringe...

    ...V
    I do not *Know* you, but I will Hear you...

    p.s.: I'm not sure what GM's problem is (and I thought Shades was cranky!) but rest assured, most of us understood you. Speak freely and as you like, dearie, it's a free 'net.

    [This message has been edited by Varyk (edited November 04, 2000).]

  13. #13
    Devious Silhouette
    Guest

    Gotta agree with Gingerbread man about the language deal. Please talk in the common tongue. Thank you!

    Anyway. I am an "old school" Thief player. I haven't been here in a while, but I played the original game back when it first came out. I got Thief Gold too! Then Thief 2. Overall I still like Thief 1 better. Don't get me wrong! There are things about Thief 2 I like more. However, I just think I like Thief 1 more because it was more groundbreaking. I mean it was the first Thief title and therefore have more impact!

    ------------------
    "We feel uncomfortable in the dark. We feel even more uncomfortable when the dark whacks us on the back of the head!"

  14. #14
    TTLG Server Goddess
    Gone, but not forgotten

    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Out of my mind...

    I think GBM was quite perfectly clear what his problem is... he left very little room for doubt. Also notable is the fact that he did not attempt to speak for anyone but himself by unilaterally proclaiming "most people here feel as I do".

    It is "a free 'net", and everyone is entitled to their opinion and their way of expressing it... However, this particular manner of "individual expression" is making me cranky too.

    ------------------
    Monkeys do not waltz on the rooftops of St. Petersburg

  15. #15
    Sypha Nadon
    Guest

    Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:
    Insta-Translate: E think that yor bullshit haz got to stop. E cannot recall thee last time E was brought to thee point ov Fury by an Idiot, but E do remember that thee Idiot who last pushed all thee wrong buttons was planted with its head firmly lodged in thee Rhode Island Home for thee Terminally Irritating. Ov all thee things to waste yor tiny little mind on, you had to go and pick thee very thing which is guaranteed to drive thee rest of us absolutely spare.

    If you were really trying to make fun ov my posts with your above quote, you should try to be more consistent. The word "but" should be "butter". You also mispelled "your". If you cannot take my style then just don't read my posts. It's obvious that you're just part of thee control process and therefore, not worth my time. Anyway, to all those who support me, much thanks. Long Live Thee Industrialists!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  16. #16
    Sledge
    Guest

    Hmmm... I advise studying the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis of language. The bottom line is that language affects intellect on a cognitive level. You bastardize your language, you make yourself stupider.

  17. #17
    Previously Important
    Registered: Nov 1999
    Location: Caer Weasel, Uelekevu

    (And another thing...)

    So, it's 1970s British artfags (sorry, Performance Artists) that you've decided have shown us the future of the written word, is it? Hmmm. Well, then, perhaps Yoko Ono was right. Perhaps music ought to sound like two shaved cats being forced up each others' bums. Maybe the height of culture truly is represented by a naked chick covered in pudding doing some sort of minimalist interpretive dance as she squats on an orange crate in a dank cellar so that like-minded artfags can groove on the metaphor when she forces a potato from her nether regions.

    Maybe I've cought the wrong groove all my life. Maybe it's better and more liberating to stand out as a complete jackass. What do I know? I'll tell you one thing, though: If anyone ever sees me poncing about with a furry hat and too many rings, mincing in and out of Fashionable Places where the clientele all have fake speech impediments and think that the world will be turned on its head in wonder and amazement by cheeky mis-spellings of common words, for God's sake put a bullet in my head.

    Bha. I'm still so annoyed that I've forgotten what my train of thought was...

    Grr.


  18. #18
    TTLG Server Goddess
    Gone, but not forgotten

    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Out of my mind...

    Here Syphon... you dropped these !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ------------------
    Monkeys do not waltz on the rooftops of St. Petersburg

  19. #19
    Sypha Nadon
    Guest

    To all who insult my posts, E have this message:
    RDrdkuytyguklgliy ayhrtsno srhgt sjb;/o.ngab/n;oje zabgrabage bagb;odznjbvjn vnj., .kjweahu gahaego;ihezrzgl;ijaezzgnj.zg so;ihgzes;oihGehga;oigh;o/hgo;igeah;oigdz;hoig;ogoh;ighgtsoijbzhnjgtsdezbtaj poij4328705923209uiotwiuotiuotwiuoiuotwiutiuiutrwiurtwkjgkjlkjkjhdlkjhdkjlhdkjhdi9uw9iut9it9it59it59 9t9tr985


    [This message has been edited by Sypha Nadon (edited November 04, 2000).]

  20. #20
    Previously Important
    Registered: Nov 1999
    Location: Caer Weasel, Uelekevu

    GBM reels from the incredibly witty rejoinder put forth by Sypha Nadon. How will he ever regain his composure in the face of such staggering pretension and artfagginess? Tune in next week for the Staggering Conclusion of: Lynch the Halfwit.


    (Part of thee control process? The GBM is the control process.)

  21. #21
    Lancer
    Guest

    Syhpha, if you want your opinions to at least be taken seriously, you might try to communicate with us, rather than forcing us to listen to you with your eccentric airs. That's just being plain phony and annoying. And detracts from what you were trying to say.

    Anyway, people have their opinions on what they like, and the opinions you have posted have been deliberated to death elsewhere.
    Everyone has their own opinion on what they like, regardless of this or that in Thief1 versus Thief 2.
    You could have posted your opinions on that thread.

    Lancer www.banzaidesign.com
    <p align=right><font size=1><embed src="

    [This message has been edited by Lancer (edited November 04, 2000).]

  22. #22
    Sypha Nadon
    Guest

    Hey, E just posted my opinion. E have no interest in using an old thread. It is not my fault people focus more on thee way my post is presented then on what the post is actually saying. I'm innocent here. If you people are so limited in what a Thief post should look like that you can't take a new approach, that's your problem. Can E get some help here? E implore other members of our forum to fight this stifling conformism. E am not a phony, you people just don't get it. Oh well, such is life. Happy Taffing...

    [This message has been edited by Sypha Nadon (edited November 04, 2000).]

  23. #23
    Netzach-Keter
    Guest

    If your going to insist on typing in this bizarre manner please use paragraphs.....

  24. #24
    Previously Important
    Registered: Nov 1999
    Location: Caer Weasel, Uelekevu

    You ignorant pillock. Don't you mean "E'm innocent here"?

    Do up your zip: Your willy's showing.

  25. #25
    Apache
    Guest

    I think all that the above posts are asking is that you please Stop typing in that manner. This forum is used by a great many of people. People from the four corners of the globe. All speaking different languages. So, if we try and keep the language to a basic sytle, we help all of those who come here. You want people to comment about which is better and why. But your post gave me a headache after the first fews lines. So if you want any intelligent replies..Might I suggest that you rewrite your post so that everyone can read it without a Migrain. Thank You.
    Apache (Old Taffer) Long live T P

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