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Thread: Hammer & Garrett T1: Original Test Release (July 21, 2001)

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: Exeter, RI

    Hammer & Garrett T1: Original Test Release (July 21, 2001)

    Warning: This thread is rife with spoilers. Turn back now if you don't want it spoiled for you.






    I'm playing H&G and, while it's linear, it's daunting. My inability to read Japanese hinders me greatly. I'm going about grabbing keys and trying to put them into doors and not getting anywhere. The map is no good, either. I can't find a sword, and there are precious little water arrows (I've only found one so far, and that opened a secret door, but it was useless because there was only a mage-character back there. No keys, no loot. Nothing. Some books which were integral to the plot, no doubt, but again, we're back to the language barrier.

    I've gone down the ladder that leads to the room with two giant spiders and I've cleared out nearly everything on that level. I can't get past the North, South, East, West room that has the switch and the lock. I've been to three rooms, but there's one room still locked because I can't find the key. I've got almost no arrows left (3) and then I went down another well (I had to bust the door open on the upper balcony area using my blackjack). There was a "cell" right outside that door that I couldn't pick or open with any of the keys I've found up to this point. Really frustrating.

    The worst is, when you come back up from being down in the well, and you've grabbed the medallion, there are haunts roaming all over the place. No holy water arrows. One flash bomb. No fire arrows. No sword.

    Has anyone else had any luck with this mission? Sorry to ramble, but I'm trying to figure this out, and there really isn't much I can offer, as far as "where I'm at in the plot" because I have no clue.

    Sock it to me Jesus!

    -Theef

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Mamaroneck, New York
    You're further along than I am.

    spoiler:
    I'm in the room with the two cauldrons. There's a porticullus I can't open that seems to lead to a cistern or something that I need to climb down. The one key I've found so far doesn't open that porticullus.


    Where did I go wrong? These Japanese missions are sort of like the Thiefish equivalent of Engrish. The stew's made of familar ingredients but is very different from what a Westerner would create.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: Exeter, RI
    I don't know if you went "wrong". Do you mean the room with the two cauldrons and the elevator? If so, you need to 'jack the hammer with the bow. He's got the key you need, IIRC. You're right above the level I'm stuck on. It seems that you go down the cistern by a ladder, and end up in a room with a guard and two spiders. By some luck, I lured the spiders out and they attacked and killed the guard. Then I (finally) hoisted myself up onto the wall of the cistern and shot the spiders dead with arrows.

    I've gone back and started over. I still have my latest-saved game, but I'm really confuzzled. Good luck.

    -Theef

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: The Foxhole's meat dumpster

    I don't think I'm turning Japanese, I really think so

    This mission is yet another sign that we Westerners are still the leaders in the field of Somewhat Logical Entertainment; that is, we make the missions that make sense (mostly). I suppose we're some sort of enigma to the Japanese, who in all likelihood consider us to be weirdos for our unseemly habit of playing FMs with a point. Now, I don't think the Japanese authors hate us specifically, but it sure feels like it.

    Since I took Latin instead of Japanese -- and twelve years ago, at that -- it's probably not going to be an easy mission. I've already spurned the Elevator mission as I would spurn a rabid dog, and this mission might turn out the same way. At least it's sorta playable, though.

    Okay, where I'm at as of now: I did get down from the ladder over the cistern, but it took some angled-jumping. I never could mantle out of the stupid water, so I had to jump in a weird way. Everything after that is a blur -- perhaps because I was focusing more on honing my grumbling skills -- until I got the medallion. Then the Haunts came out to play...and me without a sword. On a side note, I did manage to blackjack a Haunt with a bow, but that's just gravy.

    After that, I quit in disgust and played the original Blood. Setting evil cultists on fire is the kind of feel-good therapy that should be taught in kindergartens across the land.
    The Foxhole
    "...so she went to the Sorbonne. You know, in France?"
    "Oh. For a minute there, I thought you meant the one in Utah."

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: Exeter, RI
    Actually, I've just gotten beyond that part with the haunts. Here's how:

    First, I got hold of the two flashbombs. You need them. I jacked the haunt with the bow and arrows. Then I ran to the far side of that courtyard and jumped up on the barrels and up the ladder. The sword-wielding haunt tries to come near, but if you hide at the top of the ladder, then you are in full shadows, and eventually, he calms down.

    Then, you have to come up over the ladder, onto the rampart. Jump back up onto the (**very thin**) wall and stay on top of it all the way around, and you'll just stay out of his sight, and sneak past him. I delicately slinked off the wall at the end, and into the passage. I closed the doors behind me, and ran back with my new key (the one that was on the table in the courtyard with the bow-haunt) and opened up that last n/s/e/w passage room. I snuck up the side of the aisle, leaned over, grabbed the sword from the chest, and ran back and went up the elevator. Killed the undead with my new undead-processor, and got all the way back to the room with the cistern. Clearly, this is not the way out, but I'll be damned if I can find another. Just off the cistern room is a down-sloping ramp into a casino area. There's a locked, un-frobbable gate there. I think that might be gravy, if I could only find the way to open the gate.

    God, I wish I'd learned Japanese.

    Anyone else having luck? What I really like about this level is that it forces you to try out some really gutsy, thiefy moves. What I dislike is the fairly linear arrangement. It's not at all illogical, Sorrow. On the contrary, it's pretty straightforward. I blame only my own ignorance of Japanese that I cannot finish this mission. As for the cistern, I didn't jump at an angle. You can mantle out of that pool, it's just extremely difficult. My problem is that I cannot get back onto that ladder, and I can't find anything to throw into the pool to climb on top of. I tried rope arrows too (optimistically) to no avail.

    Just my 2 pesos.

    -Theef

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: The Foxhole's meat dumpster
    Okay -- I had missed the stupid key on the table by the bow Haunt. So I had to sneak by Join Us Boy twice. But seeing as how he had an unhealthy interest in a corner of the walkway, it wasn't hard to do. I let him continue his existence...hopefully he would eventually take care of those rotten bastards behind that locked fence who wouldn't let me in.

    After using my new key on the lockbox that opened the locked door in the four-way room, I eventually found a looooooong drop into a well with buttons beside it, but no lift. I didn't see a sword along the way to that point, but I jumped anyway. I did manage to find a special sword later on -- although I didn't really see anything special about it besides its name -- and I threw a couple of AI into a lava pool.

    One thing to remember past this point it to try and read everything -- by which I mean frobbing the thing -- because sometimes doors will open afterwards. And I didn't like the prospect of facing fire elementals without water arrows! When I play this thing again, I'll probably take some notes...

    Yes, I finished it. I'll play it again sometime...but I still maintain that it isn't logical. Linear, yes, but not logical.

    Anyway, I didn't mind this one too much. It had a medium annoyance factor, but at least I finished it. It's worth playing again.
    The Foxhole
    "...so she went to the Sorbonne. You know, in France?"
    "Oh. For a minute there, I thought you meant the one in Utah."

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: Exeter, RI
    Perhaps you can help me then, Sorrow. How the hell do I get out of the level? Help!


    -Theef

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: The Foxhole's meat dumpster
    ...and of course, my connection goes down when I'm supposed to be commenting. That Road Runner must have sleeping sickness.

    Okay...the key on the table in the courtyard goes to a lockbox on the board in the room with four doors. It opens the door that can't be picked or bashed. Behind the door is a deep well with a skeleton at the bottom. There are two buttons on a panel beside the well, but they do nothing, as far as I can tell. After dropping down there (I don't think it will hurt), the rest should be fairly easy to figure out. Or I may be fooling myself.

    I still haven't figured out how to get in that locked room with the two morons by the courtyard. The woman even starts screaming bloody murder when I run by, which alerts the Haunt, who stands outside their doors and glares at them through the grate. I wish I could let him in there.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: Exeter, RI
    OK, I'd gotten the sword, and I've gotten into the room you mention. The key to that room is in the room with "Brother Murus" behind a large painting on the wall (when you frob the painting, it makes a noise like a door that is locked). Keep on frobbing until the key appears in your inventory. It took me a long time, and I got it totally at random.

    So I've opened that room, and there's not much to tell. I still can't get off this level.

    -Theef

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Mamaroneck, New York
    I'm still flailing about here with an uncharacteristic lack of thieving skill. I had a previous post to this thread and it instantly solved my problem -
    spoiler:
    because I had not frobbed properly a Hammer who was "relaxing" after we chatted. This is a rank newbie error and put me on the alert that the way the bodies frob for keys might be a little off. So trust me, I've have frobbed every body from every angle.


    I'm in what I call the U-corridor
    spoiler:
    The short hall with the man and woman servants behind a porticullus is to the right and the hall to the room with the frobbable painting is to the left.


    Again, I'm missing critical keys. I've been through every room and hall that leads off the room
    spoiler:
    after the spiders. I've frobbed every body and every object I can.


    Any hints would be appreciated.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: Exeter, RI
    What you're looking for (I'm assuming you want to get into that area with the woman and the drunk guy) is the key to that room. It can be found in the room with "Brother Murus". It's behind that big, frobbable painting you were talking about. You have to click up, down, and sideways, but it's back there somewhere. I had to click for a while before I found it (quite accidentally). That opens the gates in that room. Unfortunately, all it does is lead to that switch in the back of the room. This opens the double-doors out in the hallway. You can also open that door by beating the piss out of it with your blackjack.

    Still need help finding my way out of this level, if anyone out there has a clue, please let me know. I've got everything I need (I think) but I can't find my way out. You can't get back up and out through the cistern with the hanging ladder. I don't know how else to get out.

    -Theef

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: May 2001
    Location: Australia
    Theef, where's the sword? I've looked everywhere for it.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: Exeter, RI
    Where's the sword?

    spoiler:
    Once you bash/key through the double doors next to the "cell" with the lady and the drunk in the tank, you'll emerge above a courtyard. Dispose of the guard on the rampart, and then jump over the railing and onto the roof of the gazebo. Dispose of the guard on the ground in any way you see fit. Jump in the well. Go down and grab the medallion. Push barrels, climb out. KO the haunt who carries a bow by using a flash bomb. Then, run and grab the key on the table in the gazebo and climb up the ladder on the far end of the courtyard and hide in the shadows until the haunt on the ramparts calms down. Jump back up on the very thin wall, and you'll sneak past the haunt, all the way around, and back to the double doors you entered from. Then, go back to that room with the north, south, east, west doorways, and the switch in the middle of the room. Undo the lock with your newfound key, and it'll open the last door you need. I think you can scarp out the way from there, taffer! :-)


    Have fun,

    -Theef

    p.s. Now, I've gotten you this far. Please promise me that if you find a way out, you'll post it, and not leave me trapped on this level, k? :-)

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Mamaroneck, New York
    Theef, your frobbing skills must be supernatural as I couldn't get a thing out of that painting. Thusly, it was very satisying to smash the door open. although I was in for a quite a suprize or two on the other side. I rarely participate in such bloodbaths anymore in Thief, but somehow this mission brings out the killer in me.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Mamaroneck, New York
    Theef, I'm out. Thanks for your help.

    No, I won't drive you crazy

    The key is to frob everything you can read, like the parchment wall notices and brass plaques. I hadn't been, since I couldn't read them, but it turns out some of them open stuff. I need to play this again in a bit and see what I missed.

    Here's the skinny on getting out, but I don't think you need to read this if you frob everything. Enjoy. I know you have the sword but in case anyone else needs it I started from the last key.

    spoiler:
    You get the key off the table in the gazebo and open that last door of four. Jump in the hole. The elevator's dead. Fall in the water. Get out. Go down corridor to arrow room. Get through that in a crouch and take out the two guards. Flip the three switches on the center post that will flip. The fourth is dead. The ramp will not lower. Jump over lava. Take out guard. Find lock for main doors and pick it. Make way through this building to elevators. Either elevator will work. The sword is in the blue chest at the far end of the area you reach by elevator. As soon as you get the sword fire elementals will appear. I recommend sheathing the sword fast and running like hell back to the elevator you used. Go back up and out and jump over lava again. A door is now open. Make way to room with X-crossbeams. Lower yourself to floor and flip the electrical U-switch. The burricks will become alive and a door will open. Go in the small room and READ the brass plaque. A hole will appear in the floor. Jump down into the water. Get out. Deal with guard. There is one more frobbable wall parchment to read. Read it ... and weep for how easy it is to leave this mission

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: Exeter, RI
    Thanks, Radioman. I'm out. I *HATE* leaving missions unfinished, no matter what. I don't know how I missed that exit. I must really need sleep.

    -Theef

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2002
    Location: RI, USA

    I really liked this mission because of the Japanese. IT was fun not knowing what the hell you were doind here. Besides I am a fan of huge missions, I like to be able to really run around and be forced to remember how to get somewhere because there are so many possibles ways to go. But like some people I missed the key on the table, and so ended up giving up on the mission (after smashing every possible door with my black jack to make sure there was nothing behind them ). And yes like it was already mentioned this mission brought out the killer in me as well. I especially liked taunting the gaurd from the stairs and watching as the spiders attacked him cause he was making too much noise at me. 2 against 1 was so unfair! And did anyone figure out how to open a secret door in th wall, it is oposite the rooms where you finally get some water arrows and bombs, it is on the other end of the hallway that leads to the people in the cell. There is a slight incline with water which brings you to a dead end, and clearly there is a door camofladged as a wall, I read the scroll on the wall but that was not what opens the wall?

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Mamaroneck, New York
    Auriga2Us, get ready to kick yourself:

    spoiler:
    Just put out the torch with a water arrow and that secret door opens right up. Don't stand too close!


    What a strange mission.

  19. #19
    Thiefmissions.com
    Moderator

    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Houston, Tx., USA
    OK, the Japanese missions so far have been pretty strange. However, while browsing JIS's web page I found my mind unable to consider how strange "Shinjuku Toilet EX" might be. I mean, come on!

    I will admit an urge to play GasExplosion, however. Unfortunately these missions don't seem to be downloadable from anywhere.
    - J<

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2002
    Location: RI, USA

    I have been everywhere in this mission, got the sword, ran from the burricks to fall into the water, which is the end I think, since I did not grab the medalion, and I cannot get out from the area. The thing is that there are some (alright many) areas that I was unable to get into along the mission. For example, right in the begining, when you first enter the house there are double strairs leading down but if you go straight throught the door instead, there are in front of you and to the right, gates that are not frobbable and they have guards behind them, in fact I was never able to get into those areas. I came back sometimes at different points in the mission, hoping they would open, but no success. Also towards the middle of the game, there is a room with 2 casino slots machines or something, across from them is another gate, with a guard standing far away near some water, which I cannot get into either. In the cathedral area with a praying guard in the begining on the left side are two ways, in one you have the opening in the ceiling, in the other a guard between 2 chairs guarding a door with a small window through which you can look behind the door and a gate across from him, guess what, haven't been there either. The only reason I did not grab the medalion is becasue I did not want to fight all those haunts so hopefully this is not what suppose to open those doors. And for those of you who don't seem to have an elevator appear in the shaft that suppose to lead you to the sword area with the skeleton in the water, shoot a rope arrow in to the beam and them press the up button and the elevator will appear. Thanks to anyone who even attempts to read all this mess.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Here
    I've encountered a number of Japanese sites that make reference to Thief, including what appear to be several major gaming ones. There are also at least 3 specifically devoted to Thief. Although it's hardly sweeping the nation, it would appear that Thief has a following over there, it's not just 2 or 3 people. A pity their cut off from the rest of us.....

    Z

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Mamaroneck, New York
    Auriga2us, my post of 3/5 gives very detailed instructions for exiting this level. You must frob every frobbable paper, even those notices on walls. You can't read 'em but you need 'em.

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2002
    Location: RI, USA

    My question did not concern exiting the mission Radioman, since I found the end by running from burricks and falling down the whole, as I metioned in my previous post! My question concerned the two gates in the begining with guards behind them, since I was unable to enter those areas at any point during the game. They are the 2 gates when you first enter the house with double staircase going down, just conitnue going forwards through the door past the staircase and they are in front and on the right. Does anyone know?

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: Exeter, RI
    As far as I can tell, those areas are red herrings. There are a few like that (like the gated area in the part that has the slot machines). I wrote to the author (no, I do not speak Nihon-jin). I used Alta Vista's translator to go from English to Japanese. I can only imagine how the translator mangled it. But I think the author appreciated the feedback. I sent him another email telling him that his mission seemed to be doing well here in America among us thief players, even though we didn't speak the language. You guys might try this method. He used it to write back to me (again, Japanese at the hands of the translator software was akin to a deadly underground train wreck) but don't let that stop you. At least, if we make contact, then they're not cut off from us, and they may make more of these missions available to us.

    He's jis-japan@hotmail.com.

    -Theef

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Radioman said:
    There is one more frobbable wall parchment to read. Read it ... and weep for how easy it is to leave this mission
    Unfortunately, I have an (apparently) old version where EVERYTHING is in Japanese - there is no English text in the mission (except for the occasional word in a Japanese sentence, like FM or 50%). I've dropped down a well into a large pool of water - the one with the water wheels and floating barrel - disposed of a guard, and read the only readable parchment. I think it's the one Radioman was talking about - but it's in Japanese. So how do you end the mission?
    I am Garrett of Thief. Resistance is futile - you will be robbed. Your individual wealth will be added to my own.

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